Lost Season 6 v.2

[Kat]

I think that FLocke really does have mommy issues, where mommy is some other sort of Island Presence/Deity who gave birth to Jacob and FLocke and pitted them against each other for some reason or another. Competing for mom's love? (But I'm also of the opinion that neither FLocke nor Jacob is the good guy--they are more like competing immortal beings in the Greek god sort of sense, where no one was really the One True Evil, just various fallible immortals with some human, some non-human motivations.)

And I'm not convinced that Widmore is working for Jacob, either. I think he might just be a third party bad guy who wants power on the island like Ben does. (Side thought- FLocke and Jacob:Mommy::Ben and Widmore:Jacob?)

Was thrilled to see the return of Widmore, though. I've been waiting for him all season.

Who haven't we seen in the flash-sideways/alternate reality? Michael, Walt, Ana Lucia, Ilana, Penny, Widmore, Faraday, Faraday's mom, Juliet... do you think we're going to see any of them?

[Jaxom 1974]

And I'm not convinced that Widmore is working for Jacob, either. I think he might just be a third party bad guy who wants power on the island like Ben does. (Side thought- FLocke and Jacob:Mommy::Ben and Widmore:Jacob?)

Was thrilled to see the return of Widmore, though. I've been waiting for him all season.

Yeah...well, I think I like my idea that Ben and Widmore were fighting amongst themselves for Jacob's attention rather than one for Jacob and the other for the MiB...

Who haven't we seen in the flash-sideways/alternate reality? Michael, Walt, Ana Lucia, Ilana, Penny, Widmore, Faraday, Faraday's mom, Juliet... do you think we're going to see any of them?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And Yes... :P

[Blaine]

Who haven't we seen in the flash-sideways/alternate reality? Michael, Walt, Ana Lucia, Ilana, Penny, Widmore, Faraday, Faraday's mom, Juliet... do you think we're going to see any of them?

I'd be astonished if they showed Eko.

[Ran]

Re: Kat's question,

I know Michael, Penny, Ana Lucia are all set to appear, but I'm not sure if they're going to be in the sideways stories. I think Walt was supposed to be addressed, but not sure if that means he'll show up. I'm 100% positive we'll see Juliet in a sideways.

[Caligula_K]

I have another theory here. I'm thinking that Jughead was not the catalyst for the split timelines, but rather, Jacob's death.

In the original timeline, Jacob touched Sawyer when he was writing the note. Not only that, but he gave Sawyer the pen that he used to write the note. That note could have been what caused Sawyer to become the con-man that he is in the Island timeline, obsessing over that note, over the name Sawyer. If there was no Jacob to touch him, no Jacob to give him the pen to write that note, perhaps Ford (because he isn't Sawyer in this timeline) waits until after he becomes a cop to try and find out who Sawyer is.

But why would Jacob's death cause a whole alternate timeline going back thirty or more years and cause the island to sink there? What was the point of the Incident if it didn't cause an alternate timeline? An alternate timeline from 1977 on cannot be caused by events in 2007, unless we're going completely far out into fantasy.

As for Sawyer, he probably would still have received the pen and note from Jacob (since that happened before 1977), but after the island sunk, I assume Jacob's influence stopped mattering and Sawyer therefore gained more free will.

Back to Recon: If you were Sawyer and just found out that Locke was the Smoke Monster, might you not be a bit curious about why he went around killing pilots and Mr. Eko's and chasing half the cast before trusting him?

Edit: Interesting tidbit I missed in last night's episode that I'm now reading about. Miles said that Charlotte works at a museum with his dad. Pierre Chang is alive, yay! Hope we see him again. And to focus more on the positive: Sawyer/fakeLocke scenes rule. Sawyer's a great foil for Locke, and I loved Locke saying "I forgive you."

[JungianQueen]

But why would Jacob's death cause a whole alternate timeline going back thirty or more years and cause the island to sink there? What was the point of the Incident if it didn't cause an alternate timeline? An alternate timeline from 1977 on cannot be caused by events in 2007, unless we're going completely far out into fantasy.

As for Sawyer, he probably would still have received the pen and note from Jacob (since that happened before 1977), but after the island sunk, I assume Jacob's influence stopped mattering and Sawyer therefore gained more free will.

Back to Recon: If you were Sawyer and just found out that Locke was the Smoke Monster, might you not be a bit curious about why he went around killing pilots and Mr. Eko's and chasing half the cast before trusting him?

Edit: Interesting tidbit I missed in last night's episode that I'm now reading about. Miles said that Charlotte works at a museum with his dad. Pierre Chang is alive, yay! Hope we see him again. And to focus more on the positive: Sawyer/fakeLocke scenes rule. Sawyer's a great foil for Locke, and I loved Locke saying "I forgive you."

There are a lot of holes, I agree. I'm still trying to work it out!

I'm just really moving away from the whole "Jughead caused the time split" theory. And I truly don't believe that the "side timeline" is at all an epilogue to what's going on now.

I think Desmond is one piece of the answer as he has the ability to remember the future. And I like how someone mentioned that he might be the only one who "remembers" both timelines. It makes me wonder what he was doing on the Oceanic flight in the LA X reality.

[marwyn]

There are a lot of holes, I agree. I'm still trying to work it out!

I'm just really moving away from the whole "Jughead caused the time split" theory. And I truly don't believe that the "side timeline" is at all an epilogue to what's going on now.

I think Desmond is one piece of the answer as he has the ability to remember the future. And I like how someone mentioned that he might be the only one who "remembers" both timelines. It makes me wonder what he was doing on the Oceanic flight in the LA X reality.

From a practical standpoint:

How would oyu think they'd explain it to the average viewer if Jughead wasn't the cause of the parallel reality? I mean the opening scene of LA X shows Juliet banging the core, BOOM, and then our first Jack alt scene. I don't see how they could turn that into a "Oh yeah we just did that to deceive you, what REALLY causes the timelines to split is something that happened 30 years later because <insert complicated theory here>. The sheer concept of parallel timelines is already pretty hard to juggle on tv. I think we should just stick to occam's razor here. Jughead's the most reasonable explanation here and I see no reason to believe anything else so far. (Unless you enjoy makign crackpot theories for the heck of it, then please do go on. Just dont expect it to be true :P )

[Gertrude]

That was one of the best single scenes in all of Lost, and possibly television. Way to subvert the tropes, Lost! Way to tell that total douchebag that he can't just show up at her doorstep with a sunflower and a beer and expect to get some!

That was actually nice to see, you're right - Charlotte did a smart thing. However, I happen to have mad, mad love for James and that is why she's crazy :P

The bigger hint for me was seeing Rebecca Mader's name in the credits.

I always try not to read them. I've come across some small spoilers, but for the most part, I don't want to know anything at all before watching the show.

And I think we've stumbled upon the one thing we all agree on - the Miles and James cop show would be awesome.

[Jaxom 1974]

From a practical standpoint:

How would oyu think they'd explain it to the average viewer if Jughead wasn't the cause of the parallel reality? I mean the opening scene of LA X shows Juliet banging the core, BOOM, and then our first Jack alt scene. I don't see how they could turn that into a "Oh yeah we just did that to deceive you, what REALLY causes the timelines to split is something that happened 30 years later because <insert complicated theory here>. The sheer concept of parallel timelines is already pretty hard to juggle on tv. I think we should just stick to occam's razor here. Jughead's the most reasonable explanation here and I see no reason to believe anything else so far. (Unless you enjoy makign crackpot theories for the heck of it, then please do go on. Just dont expect it to be true :P )

Hmmmmmm...so in the alternate world, perhaps Jughead didn't go off then...not in an exploding sense...but that's what happened in the main world...? Something's changed somewhere if Ben and his dad left the island at some point when he was still young. Dr. Chang and Miles left the island as well. All before it went under water. So where is the disconnect? Im getting myself confused...

[s0cKi]

I don't know about you guys, but I gave up trying to figure out Lost about 2-3 seasons ago. It's a great show, no doubt there, but It's quite useless to try and solve the mysteries because in the end it will probably turn out to be something completely different as usual.

About the last episode.. it was OK, but compared to the last 2, which were both great and full of action, it was kind of sluggish. I still don't get the point of two alternate realities, however I don't seem to mind it, myself being a huge SG fan where these things are something completely normal. Anyway, if someone has a good theory about this I will be more than happy to read it. Soyer and Miles as cop-partners was fun to watch and about the story Flocke told - I too think, that it was a complete lie to manipulate Kate into doing his bidding. But who knows..

I won't go into more details, because I only get confused, but it's still interesting for me to read all of your theories. :)

P.S: And in case you're wondering what's behind the locked door in the sub - It's Michael Scoffield who will help everyone escape from the island in the end. ^^

[Caligula_K]

Hmmmmmm...so in the alternate world, perhaps Jughead didn't go off then...not in an exploding sense...but that's what happened in the main world...? Something's changed somewhere if Ben and his dad left the island at some point when he was still young. Dr. Chang and Miles left the island as well. All before it went under water. So where is the disconnect? Im getting myself confused...

The timeline becomes a lot less confusing if the island doesn't sink immediately after the Jughead explosion, but later on (but still caused by the Jughead explosion). After all, islands don't really sink or float, so it makes sense that whatever happened still took a while to fully pan out. This would still allow Ben and his dad to leave, Dharma to evacuate the island, etc...

I agree with Marwyn that it would be pretty much a copout and unnecessarily convoluted storytelling to not have the Jughead be the cause of the alternate timeline.

[Werthead]

I wonder if MiB's mommy issues is related to the God-loves-you-like-he-loved-Jacob in the Clockwork Orange-ish indoctrination video, the one the Others subjected Karl to.

I'm wondering if they are going to revisit that plot point. They're now in the right place (back on Hydra Island) to do that, after all.

But why would Jacob's death cause a whole alternate timeline going back thirty or more years and cause the island to sink there? What was the point of the Incident if it didn't cause an alternate timeline? An alternate timeline from 1977 on cannot be caused by events in 2007, unless we're going completely far out into fantasy.

My thought is that Jughead didn't 'go off' (if it had, Chang would have been vapourised there and then), but the energy it released neutralised the energy from the Swan EMP anomaly.

How does this lead to the Island sinking? Maybe because this happened, the Swan was never built, but at a later stage the EMP anomaly re-emerged and without a way of releasing it safely it destroyed the Island, maybe with enough forewarning for DHARMA, Chang, Ben and his father and so on to evacuate. Another consideration is that without the Swan Station, Radzinsky went off and did something else that caused the Island to sink (seriously, if it turned out to be Radzinsky's fault I wouldn't be surprised at all). A further thought is that maybe the energy under the Swan station is responsible for all the weirdness on the Island, and with it neutralised the Island stopped being anything special. With no special properties to keep it afloat (if we accept the Island moving situation to indicate it isn't tethered to the ocean floor), it began to sink and everyone had to abandon ship before it went down.

Another possibility is related to what Smokey and Jacob were doing on the Island in 1977. If the destruction of the anomaly affected them (maybe eliminating both of them, if the anomaly's energy was keeping them alive or imprisoned or Smokey in his smokey state), then the Island sinking in the altverse may be a warning about what will happen to the Island in the prime timeline if a new Candidate is not selected.

Btw, a while back there was a riddle asked on Dark UFO about 'what the Island is', which can be summed up in a single word. That word has now been released and is...weird:

Apparently it's 'CORK'. And it's not related to the Island's occasionally-mentioned volcano. That leads me to suspect that the Island is a 'cork' keeping the EMP energy under control, and if the Island is destroyed the rest of the world will follow, with the EMP energy spilling over the top. In this scenario, the Island sinking could have permanantly plugged the 'bottle' in the altverse, and the threat in the present is that Flocke leaving and Jacob dying with no Candidate selected will cause this end result.

[Teabag]

I think Locke's "mother" that he was talking about was MiB's mother.

I read it as the original Locke personality somehow 'coming through'. We saw it a few weeks ago with MiB "Don't tell me what I can't do!" moment. If I was a betting man I'd say that Locke will somehow be brought back, and that the show will end with Jack and Locke as the new MiB/Jacob team, only that they will be working together to protect together, one as a man of science, one as a man of faith. However I am not a betting man, and I'm just looking forward to the crazy ride they have in store for us :)

[Mya Stone]

Hmmmmmm...so in the alternate world, perhaps Jughead didn't go off then...not in an exploding sense...but that's what happened in the main world...? Something's changed somewhere if Ben and his dad left the island at some point when he was still young. Dr. Chang and Miles left the island as well. All before it went under water. So where is the disconnect? Im getting myself confused...

Jaxom, the easiest way to think about this is this: in one reality (the one we've watched for 5+ seasons), the Losties time-traveled to 1977 and Juliet detonated Jughead, causing the Incident that has been mentioned since Season 2. In the parallel reality, the Losties never time-traveled back to 1977, however, since Radzinsky's douchebagness seemingly knew no bounds of dimensions, he directly caused the Incident in that timeline, releasing the HUGE EM pocket that they had just hit before Juliet detonated Jughead. My theory is that because Jughead wasn't detonated to react with this HUGE pocket of EM, the ultimate end was that the island eventually sank into the water, leaving plenty of time for Dharma and the Others to evacuate.

By having parallel realities, there are no paradoxes, because in essence, an Incident would have occurred no matter what - it's just the outcome of the Incident that is different in each reality.

Btw, a while back there was a riddle asked on Dark UFO about 'what the Island is', which can be summed up in a single word. That word has now been released and is...weird:

Apparently it's 'CORK'. And it's not related to the Island's occasionally-mentioned volcano. That leads me to suspect that the Island is a 'cork' keeping the EMP energy under control, and if the Island is destroyed the rest of the world will follow, with the EMP energy spilling over the top. In this scenario, the Island sinking could have permanantly plugged the 'bottle' in the altverse, and the threat in the present is that Flocke leaving and Jacob dying with no Candidate selected will cause this end result.

Regarding that, Wert:

Do you think perhaps that "CORK" is also meant as a metaphor for how the Island (and Jacob/the Candidates) prevents releasing Smokey into the world? If the cork is popped, Smokey is released, and "God help us all?"

I think it works on both levels, tbh. I'd be interested to know if you think likewise.

Or, you already answered that, and my reading comprehension fails. :P

[Mya Stone]

Because my edit function is failing to work properly unless I open IE, I'm going to double post.

In regards to Room 23:

I saw a spoiler that said we would be revisiting it, and one of the Losties will be visiting it himself. I won't further spoil who it is unless you want me to.

And with regards to FLocke and the mother story, I can't see how that was bullshit. I think the trick with him is that he has moments of "truthiness," and moments of utter bullshitting. It's all about perspective, really. But yes, I think he was being honest to Kate in regards to how he perceived things went down with his mother. It also served his purpose of keeping Claire and Aaron separated so he could further use both of them (Kate and Claire) in his war, or attempt to leave the Island, or whatever the heck it is he's doing.

Episode 15 is going to be Jacob and the MiB's back story, so we'll see how truthful he was being then.

[red snow]

I have to agree about Sawyer thinking piloting a sub is easier than flying a plane (it maybe is but it still wouldn't make it possible without any knowledge). Unless we find out that one of Sawyer's cons was pretending to run a submarine for several years.

I think Flocke was talking about himself. If he's the child of an egyptian god then it's pretty much a given she'd be crazy. Half the egyptian gods seemed to be involved in incest, eating people, then being restored back to life via a blowjob. What they teach you in school is highly censored.

Am i the only who has noticed that Flocke seems to have given himself some serious moobage over the original?

My favourite scene had to be Claire trying to kill Kate and the look on Sayid's face as he sat and watched, topped off with Flocke backhanding Claire. Class. If only the apology scene had ended with Claire trying to stab Kate again :)

[Mya Stone]

Am i the only who has noticed that Flocke seems to have given himself some serious moobage over the original?

Oh Gods, red snow, no, you aren't alone. That T-shirt is 2 sizes too small for FLocke, and frankly, it's getting SUPER distracting. I can't help but stare at them whenever he's on screen. :P Brady, Triskele, and I were all discussing that last night, as a matter of fact.

[Raskolnikov]

MiB's moobs? Well it figures, because when Ben moved the island, Locke became the leader of The Udders.

[Caligula_K]

MiB's moobs? Well it figures, because when Ben moved the island, Locke became the leader of The Udders.

Awesome.

A couple of things I've been thinking about:

Before we jump to the conclusion that Widmore's on Team Jacob, keep in mind that in Miles' flashback last year, Bram (one of Jacob's bodyguards) tried to stop him from going to the island with Widmore. Unless there's serious miscommunication (which is possible, because the Others/Ben/Jacob are awful at communication), Widmore is therefore looking out for himself, not Jacob.

Also, last season finale, didn't fake John tell Richard that after they saw Jacob they'd have to go back to Hydra island to kill the people there? He may have been referring to Jacob's bodyguards exclusively, but that does make me think that it was him that killed the Ajira people.

As for his ultimate motives, he was portrayed sympathetically last episode. But I don't trust him. I assume he's only able to escape the island if there's no Jacob, which means that he might at some point try to kill any Candidates who aren't part of his plan (I also expect he'll be betraying some soon), since they could take Jacob's spot and keep him trapped. But then we did have that message from that little kid (little Jacob?) that he couldn't kill "him"- was he referring to Sawyer? Can Fake Locke not kill Candidates? What does that make Eko's death?

Spoiler about a mystery that the producers have confirmed will not be answered this season, but which I think most of us figured out before:

Apparently the reason for the inability to conceive on the island will not be explained, but the producers have claimed that we should be able to figure it out based on what we've seen. Since Ethan was born in 1977, I think this is pretty much a confirmation that the Incident caused the pregnancy problem.

[Lightning Lord]

Widmore never said he wanted to kill Flocke. Sawyer threw that out there as an offer, but it could be that they're working together. Maybe MIB can't kill the candidates (I really don't know the list, pretty easy to contradict me on that). Could be that Widmore just wants to chat or is working with MiB, wants to off as many of the remaining candidates as possible?

I always expect the least likely thing to happen in this show. I wish I could hate it.