John C. Wright and gender relationships

[Darth Richard II]

Yeah I'm doing a Math History project right now, so it's extra hilarious.

[Lightysnake88]

Hahahahahaha, oh wow. All scientific discovery comes from Christianity? Holy shit, that's just fucking INSANE.

Especially the ones that came before Christianity. Especially them!

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Eratosthenes... Christian before it was cool.

[Lyanna Stark]

The best take away from all the blogs, commentaries etc. was the one comment where "Rainbow of Tolerance" appeared. I am totally appropriating that one.

I'm also thinking Wright's entry on women and sexuality could be really good when read aloud, on the Tube, just Chaldanya and I (et al) did with "Romancing the Crown".

[Lies And Perfidy]

So Wright's posted a few replies on Notablog - down on Page 4 here - trying to, I'm not sure, get George to admit to some sort of hypocrisy or fallacy regarding their shared publishing history. It's an interesting conversation, not in the least because Wright is using overwhelmingly polite and formal language to call George a liar. His first post is nearly word-for-word Julius Caesar! "But since you are an honest man..."

Maybe it's just me, but reading it I can just see absolute contempt oozing through. At least, that's the only way I can interpret a writer using such basic, obvious rhetorical devices to bait his intended audience. Dude writes like his readers are dumb.

[sologdin]

george crushed him with the elementary thesis that they think leftwing writers produce tendentious & politicized fiction whereas rightwing writers simply write good stories with no political message.

they can't possibly believe that their writers are neutral and objective whereas their adversaries' are full of mere polemic, can they? isn't that so ludicrous a belief that only children and liars could state it? do they really think that their production is exterior to ideology? do they truly believe that their political preferences are simply normal & natural inevitability, whereas deviations therefrom are untoward political agitation? does it get any more amateurish than that?

[Lyanna Stark]

they can't possibly believe that their writers are neutral and objective whereas their adversaries' are full of mere polemic, can they? isn't that so ludicrous a belief that only children and liars could state it? do they really think that their production is exterior to ideology? do they truly believe that their political preferences are simply normal & natural inevitability, whereas deviations therefrom are untoward political agitation? does it get any more amateurish than that?

Isn't that what a lot of people who are into that sort of neo-conservativism believe? They are the neutral, the natural, the status-quo and the way "things used to be" during the Good Old Days and now it's all just modernity, depravity, homosex and moral relativism.

I actually believe they are shocked and awed when people can't comprehend that this is their Truth. Or The Truth.

EDIT: Also, holy obfuscating through sheer verbosity & pompousness for Wright's response to GRRM. The only writers I can stand that sort of verbal diatribes from are China Mieville and our very own soggy. I *like* trying to figure out what on earth they are saying, even when I fail.

[Darth Richard II]

george crushed him with the elementary thesis that they think leftwing writers produce tendentious & politicized fiction whereas rightwing writers simply write good stories with no political message.

they can't possibly believe that their writers are neutral and objective whereas their adversaries' are full of mere polemic, can they? isn't that so ludicrous a belief that only children and liars could state it? do they really think that their production is exterior to ideology? do they truly believe that their political preferences are simply normal & natural inevitability, whereas deviations therefrom are untoward political agitation? does it get any more amateurish than that?

And there you go.

Also, if he thinks all science comes from Christianity(haha, I'm STILL laughing about that one) I got bad news for him about the glasses he wears.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Lyanna,

Everyone has bias. Laura and I were have a discussion on delicate topics on the way home from Charlotte NC on Saturday night and I pointed that out to her. It's unavoidable and problematic when people presume themselves to be "objective".

[Lies And Perfidy]

EDIT: Also, holy obfuscating through sheer verbosity & pompousness for Wright's response to GRRM.

"In other words, you are accusing me of hypocrisy, I, who have never said a bad word about you in public or private to anyone, and who have always hitherto held you in the highest esteem."

If I wanted to write a really obvious villain snidely flaunting his villainy in the heroes' faces because he had a plot coupon, and if I wasn't a very good writer at all, that's the dialogue I would write for him.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Where and when did Wright make the specious claim that all scientific discoveries were Christian? I don't doubt it's true I just want to see it for myself.

[Lies And Perfidy]

I don't know if there's a direct quote, but there's this post specifically on that topic, and then the legendary "I wish I'd punched Terry Pratchett in the mouth" post, which contains this gem:

Civilization is Christianity. Christianity is civilization.

Examine carefully, O zealous agnostic, what you are throwing on the smoldering ashheap when you tell yourself all you are casting away is the hypocrisy and judgmentalism and intolerance of the Christian superstition. Some things are nailed to the crucifix which you must and will trample when you trample the crucifix underfoot to prove to the great Sultan of the underworld your loyalty to his creed of correctness, non-judgment, and toleration of abomination.

In addition to abstractions like democracy and scientific progress, very concrete things like legal protection of your rights and your right to life are nailed to the Cross of God, and came into the history of the West, and the history of the World, because of that Cross and they grew like seeds from the life-giving blood shed there.

[maarsen]

One of the greatest mathematical discoveries is "zero". That was discovered by a non-Christian in India. Then there is the Pythagorean Theorem, and Albert Einstein. Euclid, Archimedes... The only thing worse that a zealot (non-Christian pun here) is a factually wrong zealot.

[sologdin]

"In other words, you are accusing me of hypocrisy, I, who have never said a bad word about you in public or private to anyone, and who have always hitherto held you in the highest esteem."

If I wanted to write a really obvious villain snidely flaunting his villainy in the heroes' faces because he had a plot coupon, and if I wasn't a very good writer at all, that's the dialogue I would write for him.

he's trying to cross examine george with that and the 'u say u didn't not accuse me but then u say false and wtfzomg?' but it isn't working out very well.

[williamjm]

Especially the ones that came before Christianity. Especially them!

It must have been really hard for all those poor people having to sit around freezing for millennia waiting for Jesus to be born so they could invent fire.

[Larry of the Lawn]

george crushed him with the elementary thesis that they think leftwing writers produce tendentious & politicized fiction whereas rightwing writers simply write good stories with no political message.

they can't possibly believe that their writers are neutral and objective whereas their adversaries' are full of mere polemic, can they? isn't that so ludicrous a belief that only children and liars could state it? do they really think that their production is exterior to ideology? do they truly believe that their political preferences are simply normal & natural inevitability, whereas deviations therefrom are untoward political agitation? does it get any more amateurish than that?

It kind of does. Not to harp on L Correia but pretty much his entire rebuttal to GRRM was that the SP slate was created because he didn't realize the the Hugos were linked with World Con, but rather thought they were the hivemind of all SFF fans made manifest. I think that rivals the hideous and ghoulish Wright for amateur status.

[Darth Richard II]

Where and when did Wright make the specious claim that all scientific discoveries were Christian? I don't doubt it's true I just want to see it for myself.

It was on that fandomwiki site mentioned earlier somewhere.

[sologdin]

because he didn't realize the the Hugos were linked with World Con, but rather thought they were the hivemind of all SFF fans made manifest. I think that rivals the hideous and ghoulish Wright for amateur status.

he thinks that's some kind of apologia? goodness. where do they find these clowns? it's almost as though some surly leftist were sockpuppeting them to make the far right look ludicrous.

[Winter's Knight]

It kind of does. Not to harp on L Correia but pretty much his entire rebuttal to GRRM was that the SP slate was created because he didn't realize the the Hugos were linked with World Con, but rather thought they were the hivemind of all SFF fans made manifest. I think that rivals the hideous and ghoulish Wright for amateur status.

...what.

[jagilki]

I'm sorry, going slightly off topic and slightly rantish.

This kind of stuff pisses me off a lot, mostly because I'm fairly religious, yet also believe in science and such. I know the two don't necessarily always mesh together well, but I get irritated by people like this who make all fairly religious people look like psychotic neanderthals who can't look at anything with an open mind.