American Politics mark something something

[lokisnow]

Rand Paul thinks it's un-American to criticize a British oil company for causing a gigantic oil spill on the Gulf Coast.

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/05/rand-paul-obamas-bp-comments-sound-really-un-american-video.php?ref=fpa

saying that we shouldn't hold companies responsible for their own accidents because business is the shit is pretty damn extreme for even Kentuckians. Is there a Kentucky esque Erin Brockavich that can be thrown at Rand so he can show how he's on the side of poisoning people and protecting business and making elaborate excuses for them?

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

So now everyone who can't speak english super fluently needs to carry papers too?

Wow. They warned me, but I guess its true. You really can't read, can you?

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

The problem with Libertarians isn't the basis of their ideas...it's that they tend to be even more religious than the religious in the pursuit of their ideas.

The problem is, most of my well-meaning bretheren associate "business" or "the market", with "corporations". The corporation is a creation of the State. It is designed to remove individual liability from the owners of a company for that company's actions. It is the greatest gift to the evil-inclined wealthy that the state ever gave.

Libertarians should oppose corporations as creations of the state like they oppose other creations of the state.

(edit: grammar)

[Shryke]

Wow. They warned me, but I guess its true. You really can't read, can you?

Coming from the guy who STILL won't answer the basic question, that's rich.

Let's make this easier and simpler for you Republicans then since you seem to be too stupid to grasp the concept:

I'm an American Citizen of Mexican descent. I live in New Mexico. My father immigrated legally from Mexico before I was born.

I'm driving through Arizona to go see my Aunt who lives in Southern California. I get pulled over for speeding. The cop suspects I'm a Mexican.

How do I prove I'm not?

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

So then Tormund, you would be very against the recent "Citizens United" supreme court case then wouldn't you?

The state can regulate corporations however they feel like it, as long as they leave indivuduals to themselves. In this case the state has chosen not to regulate. I don't care either way. It's not like the state/corporations haven't been jerking each other off forever anyway.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Coming from the guy who STILL won't answer the basic question, that's rich.

I'm not inclined to repeat myself just because you misread a clear post.

[Shryke]

I'm not inclined to repeat myself just because you misread a clear post.

.

What's that? You've got no answer at all?

I'm sorry, I can't hear what your saying over the sound of your metaphorical ass getting spanked in this argument.

I'm an American Citizen of Mexican descent. I live in New Mexico. My father immigrated legally from Mexico before I was born.

I'm driving through Arizona to go see my Aunt who lives in Southern California. I get pulled over for speeding. The cop suspects I'm a Mexican.

How do I prove I'm not?

Answer the question.

[Tempra]

Tempra Here is something that should "not be that hard to understand." Even if it's technically illegal to racially profile, the law invites racial profiling. You are being deliberately obtuse.

I'm being deliberately obtuse by stating that this law does not legalize racial profiling? No, sir, I am not. I am correcting misstatements of fact in the face of massive ignorance. How can we even have a discussion about this law when so many people do not understand what the law does?

[DanteGabriel]

I'm being deliberately obtuse by stating that this law does not legalize racial profiling? No, sir, I am not. I am correcting misstatements of fact in the face of massive ignorance. How can we even have a discussion about this law when so many people do not understand what the law does?

This all seems to be an argument between people holding to strict legal interpretations and people who are fairly confident extrapolating what the law will mean in the real world.

[Shryke]

I'm being deliberately obtuse by stating that this law does not legalize racial profiling? No, sir, I am not. I am correcting misstatements of fact in the face of massive ignorance. How can we even have a discussion about this law when so many people do not understand what the law does?

The problem is you won't acknowledge what the law does.

Again:

I'm an American Citizen of Mexican descent. I live in New Mexico. My father immigrated legally from Mexico before I was born.

I'm driving through Arizona to go see my Aunt who lives in Southern California. I get pulled over for speeding. The cop suspects I'm a Mexican.

How do I prove I'm not?

[sologdin]

we even have a discussion about this law when so many people do not understand what the law does?

i hear ya there.

the racial stuff is kinda annoying.

my reading of the statute is that it's pre-empted to the extent that the state of arizona seeks to try and imprison unlawful aliens and other violators of the federal immigration statutes in state courts and prisons.

[Tempra]

Because cops never pull people over for bullshit reasons to harass them. :rolleyes: And this just gives the bad ones another way to harass subjects. That's the fucking point.

Basically, you're arguments are beginning to sound like, "La la la la. Cops can't use this to harass latinos. Nope! NO! Never! After all, its illegal!!"

Do you finally concede that this law does not legalize racial profiling?

This fantasy world of beautiful perfect policeman you live in must be nice. Did not the original wording of this law specifically mention using race as a factor? Grow up. Open your eyes.

The original bill said that police "may not solely consider race, color, or national origin."

[Shryke]

The original bill said that police "may not solely consider race, color, or national origin."

So on what criteria are they basing their belief that person X is an illegal immigrant?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

The problem is, most of my well-meaning bretheren associate "business" or "the market", with "corporations". The corporation is a creation of the State. It is designed to remove individual liability from the owners of a company for that company's actions. It is the greatest gift to the evil-inclined wealthy that the state ever gave.Libertarians should oppose corporations as creations of the state like they oppose other creations of the state.(edit: grammar)

What Torumund said. Corporations are simply collectivization by private indivivduals with the willing cooperation and assent of the State instead of collectivization by the State.

[Altherion]

I'm an American Citizen of Mexican descent. I live in New Mexico. My father immigrated legally from Mexico before I was born.

I'm driving through Arizona to go see my Aunt who lives in Southern California. I get pulled over for speeding. The cop suspects I'm a Mexican.

How do I prove I'm not?

Regardless of who you are and where you are, as long as you are driving a car, you are required to have in your possession a valid driver's license, proof of insurance and the car's registration. In your hypothetical, the driver's license (as well as the other documents, but even if you're driving someone else's car, you will still have the license) is enough to prove that you are in the US legally (or you know someone who can forge documents, but that can be said for any credential). It doesn't prove that you are US citizen, but this is not required.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Regardless of who you are and where you are, as long as you are driving a car, you are required to have in your possession a valid driver's license

IIRC, illegal immigrants can obtain driver's licenses. Driver's licenses have also been denied as sufficient proof of citizenship.

[Shryke]

Regardless of who you are and where you are, as long as you are driving a car, you are required to have in your possession a valid driver's license, proof of insurance and the car's registration. In your hypothetical, the driver's license (as well as the other documents, but even if you're driving someone else's car, you will still have the license) is enough to prove that you are in the US legally (or you know someone who can forge documents, but that can be said for any credential). It doesn't prove that you are US citizen, but this is not required.

Nope, wrong.

New Mexico, along with like 6 other states, does not require proof of citizenship or immigration status to give you a driver's license.

Try again.

How are you going to prove you are legally allowed to be in the USA?

EDIT: Hi5 Tormund!

[Trebla]

Sing the National Anthem?

Profess a love for Nascar?

Say you'd want to have a beer with the President?

...wait, that might be considered un-American in some parts.

I dunno...it's tough. Even Dora the Explorer is being questioned about her immigration status.

[Tempra]

The problem is you won't acknowledge what the law does.

Again:

Before insulting me and asking stupid questions, read the damn text of the bill:

A person is presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States if the person provides to the law enforcement officer or agency any of the following:

1) A valid Arizona driver license.

2) A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.

3) A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.

4) If the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States

before issuance, any valid United States federal, state or local government

issued identification.

You show your driver's license, collect your ticket, and go see your Aunt.

There is absolutely NO indication that a New Mexico Driver's license will not be accepted.

[Shryke]

Before insulting me and asking stupid questions, read the damn text of the bill:

You show your driver's license, collect your ticket, and go see your Aunt.

There is absolutely NO indication that a New Mexico Driver's license will not be accepted.

So the law is useless then is what you are saying? Because the state right next door gives out valid government identification to illegals.

Unless of course Driver's Licenses don't count, in which case we're back to "How are you gonna prove you are in the US legally?". (And this is all ignoring that once you are accused by the cop of being in the US illegally, you are guilty until proven innocent)

Situation #2:

I'm an American Citizen of Mexican descent. I live in Arizona. My father immigrated legally from Mexico before I was born.

I don't own a car. I'm walking down the street. I cross the street and a cop comes over to give me a jaywalking ticket. The cop suspects I'm a Mexican.

How do I prove I'm not?