World Cup 2010

[Black Wizard]

With the exception of Braafeid and Babel that's a cracking team.

[Fireball07]

^Not really. The defence is pretty crap. Ooijer is well past it, Van Bronckhorst is again and none of the others are more than average. Mathisjen, Boulahrouz and Heitinga for example.

Got to agree with the attack though, should be pretty exciting. Would have liked to see Lens going, he looks like a great prospect.

[mormont]

With the exception of Braafeid and Babel that's a cracking team.

To be honest, on paper it looks one of the poorer Dutch teams I've seen at a WC finals.

[Renasko]

I wouldn't say that. A lot of the players in that squad would be quite able to make their way into the other top WC team squads, in my opinion.

[mormont]

I wouldn't say that. A lot of the players in that squad would be quite able to make their way into the other top WC team squads, in my opinion.

I'm not saying they wouldn't. I'm saying that compared to the '90, '94, or '98 squads, it's poor. As Fireball points out, the defence is pedestrian or past it: the midfield is a mix of players known as much for being injury-prone as for their attacking talent and players best known for collecting cautions: and the attack lacks a really dangerous striker.

Compare to the three squads above, which featured the likes of Kluivert, van Nistelrooy, van der Sar, the de Boers, Overmars, Bergkamp, Davids, Seedorf, Koeman, Rijkaard, Gullit, van Basten... the squad above isn't even as good as the '06 squad - many of the same players are in it, but they're four years older and most of those who've dropped out have been replaced by inferior players.

[Fireball07]

Still think that an attacking quartet of Sneijder, RVP, VdV and Robben is as good as any really, with Afellay, Kuyt and Elia as backup. Pretty good.

Defence is poor though.

I think it's better than the last one, tbh. Robben and Sneijder are in form and more mature players than 4 years ago.

[Slick Mongoose]

JPMorgan predict England to win world cup, using mathematical models used to buy stocks. They also think England will beat Spain on penalties.

Looking at table 12 on page 22, they appear to think England are the best team at penalty shootouts.

This explains the financial crisis.

[Renasko]

I'm not saying they wouldn't. I'm saying that compared to the '90, '94, or '98 squads, it's poor. As Fireball points out, the defence is pedestrian or past it: the midfield is a mix of players known as much for being injury-prone as for their attacking talent and players best known for collecting cautions: and the attack lacks a really dangerous striker.

Compare to the three squads above, which featured the likes of Kluivert, van Nistelrooy, van der Sar, the de Boers, Overmars, Bergkamp, Davids, Seedorf, Koeman, Rijkaard, Gullit, van Basten... the squad above isn't even as good as the '06 squad - many of the same players are in it, but they're four years older and most of those who've dropped out have been replaced by inferior players.

How many of the great nations actually have players representing them now, currently, that would hold up against former teams that have represented their nations? The standard has not just dropped with the Dutch. Admittedly, the Netherlands are lacking a truly great striker like Kluivert or van Nistelrooy, but I'd expect Van Persie to perform excellently for them and score a few goals. Assuming he avoids injury, that is. Then there's Huntelaar as back-up who is talented, yet questionable.

[Padraig]

Looking at table 12 on page 22, they appear to think England are the best team at penalty shootouts.

This explains the financial crisis.

:lol:

Spain are probably the only big team that compare favourably with prior iterations. And some of the African teams but since their attendance in prior WCs were patchy that doesn't really count.

[mormont]

Still think that an attacking quartet of Sneijder, RVP, VdV and Robben is as good as any really, with Afellay, Kuyt and Elia as backup. Pretty good.

To me, it lacks any real punch or penetration and is slightly one-dimensional. The first four are all technically good players, but somewhat similar and as I said, there's no genuine striker really. Even assuming all four of the above stay fit, if you cut off the supply in midfield they're going to be stuck for ideas: and if you play all four of those guys, cutting off the supply in midfield will be relatively simple, because you'll have a man over.

As for the reserves, Kuyt is willing but limited, Afelay and Elia really untested at the highest level.

I think it's better than the last one, tbh. Robben and Sneijder are in form and more mature players than 4 years ago.

But they have an inferior defence and midfield in support. And talented forwards need good defenders and midfielders to thrive.

How many of the great nations actually have players representing them now, currently, that would hold up against former teams that have represented their nations? The standard has not just dropped with the Dutch.

Admittedly, the Brazilian, Italian, French and German squads look weaker than the squads those teams had in the '90s also. But the point remains: as Dutch squads go, that doesn't look particularly good. It certainly isn't 'a cracking team', and I don't see them as a major contender. Quarter-finalists, maybe. They're lucky in that they have a relatively straightforward group and their 1st knock-out round opponents don't look too fearsome either (Italy, Paraguay, Slovakia or New Zealand).

[Antonius Pius]

To me, it lacks any real punch or penetration and is slightly one-dimensional. The first four are all technically good players, but somewhat similar and as I said, there's no genuine striker really. Even assuming all four of the above stay fit, if you cut off the supply in midfield they're going to be stuck for ideas: and if you play all four of those guys, cutting off the supply in midfield will be relatively simple, because you'll have a man over.

Van Persie is supposed to be the point-man. He has openly said that he would want to play center-forward, and as he is the most talented player of the squad, he probably will play that position. The other forwards either aren't full center forwards, or haven't played much for their team (Huntelaar) or aren't fit enough (Van Nistelrooy) or simply not good enough yet (Lens). Van Persie has scored many a goal so far, in the qualifying campaign and in the friendlies. He may do very well, but of course he is somewhat injury-prone, a problem for Van der Vaart en Robben as well.

Sneijder, Robben and Van Persie are the big stars of this team. The first two have had a really good season, and Van Persie seems to be fit now too. If those guys are on fire, we may get to see some good football.

But they have an inferior defence and midfield in support. And talented forwards need good defenders and midfielders to thrive.

Van Bommel and De Jong are good defensive midfielders, but on average the defense is definitely the weakest point. This has caused us some troubles in the qualifying campaign. The team seems to have decided on a strategy of "the defense may not be up to par, but if we score more goals, we still win". Expecting to concede goals but hoping to outscore the opponent. I don't really know what to think of that. Apparently it's the only way this team can go anywhere tournament-wise.

Admittedly, the Brazilian, Italian, French and German squads look weaker than the squads those teams had in the '90s also. But the point remains: as Dutch squads go, that doesn't look particularly good. It certainly isn't 'a cracking team', and I don't see them as a major contender. Quarter-finalists, maybe. They're lucky in that they have a relatively straightforward group and their 1st knock-out round opponents don't look too fearsome either (Italy, Paraguay, Slovakia or New Zealand).

It's my belief that the 1998 squad was the best since 1974/78. The 1994 squad was mediocre; it came after the Gullit/Van Basten period and their successors hadn't yet reached their prime. Aside form Bergkamp and Jonk there weren't many really good players in that squad.

This squad should be as good as the 2008 squad, which did very well against Italy and France, but then got thrown out by a Russia which played a match that was a once in a lifetime performance.

In general, I don't really know what to expect from this WC. I'm guessing Brazil will win (mostly because they win every other WC), but every team I've seen seems less than they could have been. Or were in previous years.

[Renasko]

Blargh, stupid Danes left Morten Rasmussen out of their final WC squad. :thumbsdown: How will they beat the Dutch now? With Bendtner? I think not.

[Iskaral Pust]

The Dutch defense gets a lot of criticism but they only conceded two goals in the entire qualifying stage -- 8 games. They had a ridiculously weak group with very little attacking quality against them but even so they did ok. Or were they routinely giving up ridiculous chances that the opposition obligingly missed again and again?

I'd agree that they don't have any quality players back there any more, certainly no Koeman or even DeBoer, but Heitinga, DeJong and VanBommel have all had decent seasons and will help with defending (treating the latter two as defensive midfielders). Van Der Wiel looks ok too. Kuyt will probably help close down an opposing winger. They have a lot of mid-tier defenders, but if they're well organized they might pull it off. They can afford to keep two deep midfielders all the time and let the talented attackers work as a unit without too much support. And I don't think they'll see too much threat from Denmark and Japan in the group stage.

If they win their group they will fancy their chances against the runner-up from a weak group F. The group game against Cameroon might be pivotal. If Cameroon (Indomitable Lions!) win the group, then Holland will probably struggle against Italy in the second round.

[polishgenius]

then Holland will probably struggle against Italy in the second round.

I can't see it. I know that writing them off considering what they did last time seems a bit daft, but I can't see Italy having any chance of beating Holland. I'm not even sure they'll top their group and it wouldn't entirely blow my mind if they failed to qualify entirely, they're just so old and slow and lacking in attacking verve whereas Slovakia and Paraguay, while not strong, have a few bits of class about them and could hurt them.

[Padraig]

I can't see it. I know that writing them off considering what they did last time seems a bit daft, but I can't see Italy having any chance of beating Holland. I'm not even sure they'll top their group and it wouldn't entirely blow my mind if they failed to qualify entirely, they're just so old and slow and lacking in attacking verve whereas Slovakia and Paraguay, while not strong, have a few bits of class about them and could hurt them.

I'd be surprised to see Italy do well also. They are worse than they were in 2006 and they weren't great in 2006 either.

I wouldn't rule out Denmark though. They could certainly give the Dutch a decent game.

Saw Algeria v Ireland last night. Algeria will have to do a lot better in the WC. A poor display.

[Marcelo Rebelo Firqoralas]

I'd be surprised to see Italy do well also. They are worse than they were in 2006 and they weren't great in 2006 either.

Yeah. Italy were awful in 2006. What place did they end up on again?

[Fireball07]

Italy in 2006 were actually class. Weak forwards, but an unbelieavable midfield and defence.

Algeria were rubbish last night, but I think they were missing a lot of players. I think that might have been the first time we've scored 3 goals under Trapp.

[Gorn]

Don't underestimate Italy. They'll win their group easily (IMO) and if they face Holland, I'd say their chances are 50-50. Lippi is a great coach who knows his players well, and their team is better than the sum of its parts.

[Horza]

Italy's one of those teams where it doesn't matter how awful they look, once they get to the knockouts there's no telling how far they'll go. The for some reason the converse applies to the Dutch - they can look excellent but get nowhere.

[Renasko]

Algeria were rubbish last night, but I think they were missing a lot of players. I think that might have been the first time we've scored 3 goals under Trapp.

I'm not sure who they were missing, but I did hear that as well. Not like it would've changed much. They hardly produce the likes of Keano. Nice couple of goals to add to his scoring record. Amazing we actually tried to score again after going ahead. Must've taken a lot for Trapp to concede that the lads should go out and play.