What's wrong with 20-somethings?

[DanteGabriel]

Assuming you're a teenager, it's impossible to say, because so many teenagers are terrible people who think they're awesome, and relatively fewer of them are still that way at, say, 25.

So, give a decade or so and we'll see if you're actually more awful that the generation that preceded you. One thing you can be sure of: there will be plenty of journalists willing to write about it.

There's truth to this. I can even look at my own generational cohort. A lot of the kids who I thought were total douchebags in high school have turned out to be decent people. The same can probably be said of me -- I had a lot of problems in high school and feel more well-adjusted and at peace with the world now. Might be surprising to some of the people I've argued with in the politics threads... Just be glad I wasn't on any message boards in high school. ;)

[Eponine]

I don't actually work with any teenagers, but I've been pleasantly surprised by those whom I know. The local high school cross-country team used to run with the adult running club in the summer (or vice versa), and they were so nice and polite. Of course, it's a rather self-selecting group that voluntarily meets at 8 am all summer.

****

Roommates. Is it adult to have them or not? I've seen the attitude that roommates are college-y and real adults don't live with roommates. But as a practical matter, it seems like a financially responsible thing to have. What better way to cut down on expenses than to share housing costs with someone else?

[cjfshaw]

Oh, I'm confused. I thought the entire thread was about people your age.

Well now I'm confused, because the thread is titled "What's wrong with 20-somethings?" and I am 20-something, meaning that it is indeed about people my age. So I am confused about the confusion.

[Guest Raidne]

I thought you were something other than Gen X or Gen Y because that's what the posts prior to yours were about, and you said the previous posts were not about people your age.

[cjfshaw]

I thought you were something other than Gen X or Gen Y because that's what the posts prior to yours were about, and you said the previous posts were not about people your age.

Oh I just meant that they seemed really off-topic from the original post.

[Guest Raidne]

We live in a world where my grocery store thread is now about masturbation. Such is life.

[Jaime L]

Very true and I agree that is a huge factor. That said, I also believe the whole "follow your dream/path" mantra that many youngin's are fed is not properly balanced with "but be prepared if what you love and choose to do won't pay your bills or cover all your wants". It's the lack of balance in upbringing, imho, that adds fuel to the lack of accountability fire.

Yeah, it's tough trying to cultivate the right balance between idealism and realism in the youth. Think we err on the side of idealism because we don't want to crush their dreams at a precocious age and turn them into lifeless husks just running the rat race. But in practice we often end up just letting society do it for us. :P

- The cost of living is ridiculous even in areas that are not known to be expensive. Some one mentioned earlier about the right of passage of working shit jobs in your teens so you could buy some gallons of gas or whatever. When I started driving, gas was about $1.25 a gallon where I live. Now it's about $3.00 a gallon. Food is expensive, too. The 'basics' are just so difficult to cover without a decent paying job. Don't even get me started on the cost of housing.

This is interesting point because it's also emblematic of the difference between growing up in good times and bad and how that sets our expectations. That's the baseline. I remember those $1.25 gas prices but at the time spending $13 for a tank seemed incredibly expensive. Had no clue that was an aberration. Same way the bull market of the 90s and the "jobs for everyone" ethos. Just felt like things were getting better all the time then. Now, not so much. Wonder if I was in high school and college in the 2000s, how that would change my view of how the world works. If was a class of '10 college grad, might be left feeling like I was fed a bunch of lies as a child.

[fitheach]

We live in a world where my grocery store thread is now about masturbation. Such is life.

Food/masterbation, where's the disconnect? ;-p

Anyway, my Gen X'er comment was just to state that these articles have been done before and I'd take most of it with a grain of salt. Not trying to make the thread about my generation at all, we've had our write ups... :-)

[fitheach]

Sorry, double post.

[Starkess]

I'm intrigued at the idea that one must have a steady job/income prior to marriage. I've heard this concept before, and I just don't really understand it. I can get it as far as having kids--that's a HUGE financial burden, and not an easy thing to deal with. But getting married is, IMO, just a decision that you intend to stay with someone for good. It's not like all the sudden you need more money. In fact, if anything, you need LESS money, as you now have a permanent person to share living expenses with! Perhaps from a time aspect--people afraid they don't have the time to devote to a spouse while they climb the ladder at work or whatever, but I hear it more often as a financial issue. "I don't want to get married until I can provide for you," is a pretty out-dated sentiment, so I'm curious that I still hear it so often.

[Bellis]

I'm intrigued at the idea that one must have a steady job/income prior to marriage. I've heard this concept before, and I just don't really understand it. I can get it as far as having kids--that's a HUGE financial burden, and not an easy thing to deal with. But getting married is, IMO, just a decision that you intend to stay with someone for good. It's not like all the sudden you need more money. In fact, if anything, you need LESS money, as you now have a permanent person to share living expenses with! Perhaps from a time aspect--people afraid they don't have the time to devote to a spouse while they climb the ladder at work or whatever, but I hear it more often as a financial issue. "I don't want to get married until I can provide for you," is a pretty out-dated sentiment, so I'm curious that I still hear it so often.

Some of it might have to do with certain careers tracks where a person moves around a lot while they're climbing the ladder. So they might not feel like they are able to put down roots in a city they might have to leave in a few years, especially with an SO who's also working and would not easily be able to follow. Academia is like that. So's your career, I think, so I'm sure you'll have a rebuttal to that.

[Guest Raidne]

I agree with Nora. Bellis, what I've learned is that life is like that. And that's a reason to get married - people have to make career choices with a spouse in mind to stay together, and I'm not willing to do that with anyone who is not part of a legally binding unit with me. For instance, I got stuck in Houston for my husband, and now he's pretty much permanently stuck in DC because of me. I guess if he got a really, really good offer I might reconsider my options.

But it's that way now, and it'll be that way 10 years from now. Our friends who are tenured professors aren't any different - they still might want to field an offer from another university. I guess what I mean is that nobody is ever easily able to follow and moving is hardly ever not an option.

[Starkess]

Some of it might have to do with certain careers tracks where a person moves around a lot while they're climbing the ladder. So they might not feel like they are able to put down roots in a city they might have to leave in a few years, especially with an SO who's also working and would not easily be able to follow. Academia is like that. So's your career, I think, so I'm sure you'll have a rebuttal to that.

That's definitely an issue in my career, and I think I was very lucky, because most people probably wouldn't move across the country to live with a girl they've been dating for four months (I met my husband while he was working in Baltimore/DC a few months before I had to move to CA). That said, once we GOT to CA, that was actually more incentive to get married. As my husband says, sure he doesn't necessarily want to live in Charleston/New York/wherever, but he does want to be with me, and that becomes a lot easier once we're married. And although I've never dreamed of living in AZ, that's where we'll probably end up once I'm out of the Navy, because being with him is more important to me than where exactly we are. Or, basically, what Raidne said. :)

[DanteGabriel]

"I don't want to get married until I can provide for you," is a pretty out-dated sentiment, so I'm curious that I still hear it so often.

For me, it's almost the opposite. I wouldn't want to get married while I'm still as deep in debt as I am. I don't want to be a burden to my prospective spouse, fuck up our joint credit rating, etc.

[Blaine]

What about those of us with no interest in romantic relationships? I don't personally see why that should be a prerequisite for adulthood, even if it isn't as extreme as marriage and kids. Really, in my mind the only prerequisite for adulthood is to take responsibility for your own life. That might often mean living independently but not necessarily depending on the situation.

Like no interest in romantic relationships ever? If that's the case, then sure. But really that mindset is particularly asocial. It's hard for to consider someone an adult if they cannot comprehend what it's like to care about someone or learn how to sustain an actual relationship with another human being. I won't call you lazy for that choice, but I'll say it's weird.

I am not entirely sure what the purpose of such a job is though. My parents never pushed me into getting one of them as a teenager because there were far more worthwhile activities in terms of getting into a good college and the money I would earn would not make a meaningful contribution to the family budget. I did have a part-time job during college, but again, I'm not sure whether that is worthwhile if it is not absolutely necessary -- I made more money (meaning, post-tax salary minus expenses) in my first month of post-graduation work than the post-tax salary from two semesters of the part-time job.

I guess it would make sense if the teenager is in need of character-building or if the family really needs money, but otherwise I don't see the point. Is this kind of job worth much on resumes?

As someone who routinely reviews resumes and portfolios of kids just out of ad school, I can assure that someone who has managed to hold down a part-time job in college and/or high school is worth quite a bit to me. Like it's already been said, it means you have a realistic expectation of how to behave, the rules of an employer/employee relationship, etc.

Some young people come right out of school having never worked a day in their lives and apply here. And to be honest, if they haven't at least worked some crappy summer job, then tend to think of their employers as parents. Like we'll coddle them all day and understand when they rebel against authority. They are very, very wrong. So yeah, it matters to me.

There's a lot of pressure on young adults these days. Every day we're bombarded with ads and TV shows and tabloids telling us how to be smart, healthy, productive, rich, happy, environment-friendly... And above all, to realize our dreams. Somehow it's no longer acceptable to have a low-status job and be content with it. How many Hollywood movies are about decorators compared to the number of movies about lawyers?

Okay, I'll admit it. My job in advertising makes me somewhat sensitive to this. But seriously? Advertising and movies have somehow ruined all of you by showing you an aspirational reality? About the only place this "bombardment" theory makes any sense is when it comes to young girls and body issues.

I am truly sorry that Hollywood hasn't made many movies about decorators. Must be because they're trying to ruin children, not stick to professions that actually have some conflict inherent in them.

Anyway, ever since entertainment was invented, it's projected an aspirational existence. The 50s told everybody their life should look Leave it to Beaver. And so on. Why? Because people at the time liked that. They liked to get away from their hard and boring jobs as steelworkers and watch a show about a family that seemed nice. Or a western. Or a cowboy. Or sci-fi.

Point is, they somehow managed to get up and go to work everyday without blaming their problems on the media.

[Starkess]

For me, it's almost the opposite. I wouldn't want to get married while I'm still as deep in debt as I am. I don't want to be a burden to my prospective spouse, fuck up our joint credit rating, etc.

That makes sense, as far as the credit rating. But realistically, can't you pay off your debt while married just as well as while single? I'm not saying everyone ought to run out and get married...but if you're with someone who you seriously want to marry, I just don't understand letting that stop you.

(Although, re: debt, it is nice to at least WARN your spouse that your next tax refund will be partly garnished...)

[Guest Raidne]

For me, it's almost the opposite. I wouldn't want to get married while I'm still as deep in debt as I am. I don't want to be a burden to my prospective spouse, fuck up our joint credit rating, etc.

Really? And what's a "joint credit rating"? I'm not convinced that there is a such a thing.

As long as the debt pre-existed the marriage, it's your debt and it'll still be your debt if you get divorced. If you died, they could seize your assets to pay your debt, but not hers. I don't think your debt would have any effect on your spouse whatsoever. My husband's debt has not had any effect upon me.

[Jaxom 1974]

We live in a world where my grocery store thread is now about masturbation. Such is life.

I blame the slackerdazical attitude of the 20-somethings...

[DanteGabriel]

That makes sense, as far as the credit rating. But realistically, can't you pay off your debt while married just as well as while single? I'm not saying everyone ought to run out and get married...but if you're with someone who you seriously want to marry, I just don't understand letting that stop you.

(Although, re: debt, it is nice to at least WARN your spouse that your next tax refund will be partly garnished...)

Well, for sure, I'd definitely have the "honey, about my credit rating..." conversation before proceeding to legal couplehood.

Of course, it's not like I'm broke and homeless. I make plenty of money, I just spend it as quick as it comes in, and sometimes more quickly. ;)

Really? And what's a "joint credit rating"? I'm not convinced that there is a such a thing.

As long as the debt pre-existed the marriage, it's your debt and it'll still be your debt if you get divorced. If you died, they could seize your assets to pay your debt, but not hers. I don't think your debt would have any effect on your spouse whatsoever. My husband's debt has not had any effect upon me.

Hrm. I haven't looked into the legalities but I had been under the impression that married couples get treated... well, like a single unit for the purposes of credit ratings and such.

[The Wedge]

I am truly sorry that Hollywood hasn't made many movies about decorators.

HGTV? TLC? Decorators get tons of attention and love these days in entertainment.

Plus, Sell This House has Tanya Memme (sure, she's just the lowly host, but damn does she know how to paint a room. :drool: )