What's wrong with 20-somethings?

[Altherion]

If a teen can work the low end of the service industry and do it with a good attitude, especially when faced with disgruntled customers, they are on their way to dealing with the real world.

I am not entirely sure this translates so well into other environments. As Datepalm alluded to, it is hardly beneficial to instill the attitude of a servant into a person at a young age.

Learning to work within the framework of the employee/manager/boss pays off big time down the road. Being on time, staying late, picking up shifts, etc.

Shouldn't this be learned at school? Being on time and working until the job is done is definitely the same. Learning to work within the framework of your boss is not that useful given that frameworks can differ radically.

It builds an appreciation and empathy of what customer-facing workers go through.

This is a valid point, but I doubt it is worth the time.

[DanteGabriel]

Man, I'm probably going to be a failure of a 20-year-old too.

Strangely enough, when I was a kid growing up I always figured people had their shit together by the time they were 20.

[jurble]

Strangely enough, when I was a kid growing up I always figured people had their shit together by the time they were 20.

I'm just lazy. Not not-wanting-to-grow-up lazy like the article is talking about, but rather Hedonism-Bot lazy.

[Jaime L]

Strangely enough, when I was a kid growing up I always figured people had their shit together by the time they were 20.

I thought this would be the case at 16, at 21, at 27...but 30, 30's going to be the money age, I can feel it. C'mon 30!

[fitheach]

You know, I think they pull these articles out of their asses every 15 years or so. I seem to remember something like this directed towards my generation (Gen X) back in the early 90's during the last recession... We were the slackers, didn't take life seriously, still lived with mom and dad... Pretty much the same article.

Here's something, and more, that addresses Gen X'ers and how they were viewed 20 years ago and how they turned out. I can see the same article about todays 20 somethings in 20 years.

[Jaime L]

You know, I think they pull these articles out of their asses every 15 years or so. I seem to remember something like this directed towards my generation (Gen X) back in the early 90's during the last recession... We were the slackers, didn't take life seriously, still lived with mom and dad... Pretty much the same article.

Here's something, and more, that addresses Gen X'ers and how they were viewed 20 years ago and how they turned out. I can see the same article about todays 20 somethings in 20 years.

Remember a few years back debating with Bazzle over Gen X versus Gen Y, and even though my age means I'm exactly halfway between the two, sided with Gen Y because even as a kid I remember all the furor over it being a slacker generation that takes its cues from MTV and Beavis and Butthead and how it would never amount to anything.

Appreciate you as a Gen Xer recognizing this fact. :)

[adamsputnik]

I felt like an adult the moment I left home and literally moved my arse to another country to begin a new life. I came over as a student, couldn't work a meaningful job for two years, and really didn't contribute monetarily to my new household, but that was still a very adult decision for me to make. Pretty gutsy if I say so myself ;)

At this point I have the job, the wife and the house, and certainly am financially independent. The kid is probably not going to happen, but that's okay. I'm 28 now and pretty happy where I am, though I certainly would love to be closer to home, or at least have been able to visit. But there is plenty of time to work that sort of stuff out.

I don't think people are defined by these milestones any more. I think if anything else we are more individualistic, less defined by community mores and just seeking to do our own thing.

[Tyrellius]

"If it doesn't work out, we're keeping your room for you!" :love:

Thats hilarious, as soon as I left the house (and country) my father sold the house and moved into a beach house.

:dunno:

[Tears of Lys]

Strangely enough, when I was a kid growing up I always figured people had their shit together by the time they were 20.

People who WILL have their shit together probably DO already. IOW, if you don't have it together by the time you're, say, 28, chances are it ain't happening by 30, 35, 40...

I felt like an adult the moment I left home and literally moved my arse to another country to begin a new life. I came over as a student, couldn't work a meaningful job for two years, and really didn't contribute monetarily to my new household, but that was still a very adult decision for me to make. Pretty gutsy if I say so myself ;)

^^^ I rest my case. :smoking:

[Shryke]

Galactus had a good (but seemingly ignored) post at the start of the thread basically showing that, yeah, this sort of trend drawing is pretty fucking useless since we are in some fairly uncharted territory here. All this shit is a new phenomenon.

Also, the job market for young people has been getting progressively shittier since the end of WW2, so you know, there's that.

It just seems like a bunch of old fucks writing yet another "Damn kids, off my lawn" article because shit has changed from when they were kids.

Fuck, you know what? Kids get this shit from their parents. And I'm not just talking about shitty over-protective parents and the monsters they create.

Kids don't wanna get married early? Look at the divorce rate for their parents. There's your answer.

Kids aren't rushing out to get a shit job and instead saving money by living at home? Look at their parents getting layed off. There's your answer.

Kids ain't stupid, they learn.

Also, most 14-16 year olds are fucking SHITTY employees. Just ass terrible. In the non-skilled labour market anyway. They are a last resort for employers.

[Mad Monkey]

It just seems like a bunch of old fucks writing yet another "Damn kids, off my lawn" article because shit has changed from when they were kids.

Really? It seems like "A bunch of old fucks writing yet another "Damn kids..." article because shit is exactly the same as when they were kids, but they're seeing it from a slightly different perspective."

Seriously, fitheach is right; you could probably fudge some dates and rerun this article every ten years from now until Armageddon and you'll still get people saying, "I have noticed that kids today are lazy and stupid, unlike kids when I was a kid, who were all wise, dependable, Forrest Gump clones from Leave It To Beaver."

[adamsputnik]

^^^ I rest my case. :smoking:

I'm not sure if you're saying I do or don't have my shit together :P

[DanteGabriel]

People who WILL have their shit together probably DO already. IOW, if you don't have it together by the time you're, say, 28, chances are it ain't happening by 30, 35, 40...

I don't think that's true. I only started getting my shit together when I was 32. I mean, yeah, I lived on my own, had a good career, etc but my personal shit was definitely still... scattered.

Of course, we could be talking about different definitions of "having your shit together"... :dunno:

[GSP]

"Seems to me like this five-point timeline just aims to create a bunch of divorced, 30-year-old single parents and miserable six-year-old kids. :shrugs: "

Thank you! I remember informing my mother not to expect me to make any grandkids for her because I simply don't feel the need to tie myself down with the needs of some ingrateful little mini me. She informed me she thought my point of view was selfish. I sarcastically replied how I'd just changed my mind and will now father a brood of little whelps because I wouldn't want my mother to think I'm selfish.

I'm glad my parents did the family thing and I respect their many persistent sacrifices to do so, but that aint my bag.

Hey, if youre into the family thing, good for you, do it. But do it for you and not because bullshit 'get off the lawn' articles tell you to. Don't chase these stupid fuckin milestones because your 'supposed to'.

I'm 34. I presently rent a country house with a buddy that his parents recently purchased. I pay my own way, but I'm a credit ruin from doing the law practice thing, largely because I was supposed to chase these kind of stupid milestones (and I mean a ruin. I have no fear of identity theft, at all, lol). I was doing all the 'right things' and fuckin melted down for it, because that shit just wasn't me.

Now I contract from home and live like a paid University student. I could do some work during the week, but I usually don't bother. Bill out is Monday morning, so I usually pull a Sunday all nighter to make my week's wages (which aren't huge, but more than enough that I get by). I've never even seen one of my 'bosses' in person. Any communication necessary is done by email. This leaves me all the time in the fucking world to partake in the things I enjoy. I get up at the crack of whenever the hell I feel like it and my work uniform is whatever the hell I happen to be wearing. I wake and bake damn near every week day. Long story short, besides paying my own bills n shit, I'm nowhere near hitting any of the milestones. I'll never own a house, and I don't care. Everything about my life annoys most 'mature adults' I meet, and the types who wrote that article would definitaly not approve of my non real estate owning, non marrying, non babymaking ass.

Guess how much I care?

This world don't owe me shit, but I don't owe it one Goddamned thing either. I'm doing what makes me happy and fuck the haters. They're just jealous cause they are stuck with a spouse they hate, golden handcuffed into mortgages and other bullshit, fueling them with a bitter rage that makes them look around and wag their judging fingers at people who aren't following their allegedly proper lifestyle.

Fuck em.

I have a bird and two kittens and that's about all the responsibility I feel like handling. Is that wrong of me? Does that bother you? I'm sure there are plenty of people out there, some even reading this post, that have their opinions. Well, opinions are like asseholes, everyone has one. Just so happens that when it comes to my lifestyle, my own opinion rules the day as far as I'm concerned.

[Lyanna Stark]

McDonald's is actually in ridicilously high demand here. Every time they send out an ad they get swamped by thousands of kids looking for work.

Totally. My sister works for Lidl and my MiL for Tesco's and when they advertise part time jobs, even just like Tues-Wed evenings or whatever and basically minimum wage, they get absolutely SWAMPED with applications. It's totally ridiculous, really.

[Guest Raidne]

You know, I think they pull these articles out of their asses every 15 years or so. I seem to remember something like this directed towards my generation (Gen X) back in the early 90's during the last recession... We were the slackers, didn't take life seriously, still lived with mom and dad... Pretty much the same article.

Thanks for making me feel really, really old.

For what it's worth, for employers, there is measurable data on differences in employee behavior at work in the Gen Y crew. I will have to ask the husband what it, exactly, was - something about needing more positive feedback, etc. That's from the perspective of, you know, what employers should do to maximize the productivity of their Gen Y work force. These things are not also true for Gen X.

ETA: Am I the only one who read GSP's post and went "Awwwww....two kittens. Cuuuuuute"?

[alguien]

I didn't really think the article was that down on 20-somethings. If anything, it seemed to be defending their choice of having fun in their 20's as something that might be a good thing.

In any event, I didn't really feel attacked when I read it. Nor vindicated, I guess.

One thing I will say is that expectations vary HUGELY depending on where you live. In Chicago, 29 is still considered a little young to be getting married, settling down with kids.

Back home in Michigan, I should have already married and be on my second or third child.

(the fact that some of my friends in Michigan are already in their second marriage I find hilarious)

[QuietColours]

I'm 24, married, gainfully employed, and financially independent. No kids yet, no desire to for at least quite a while. I also do not feel remotely like an adult. Like a lot of people were saying, it's the lack of career that mostly still makes me feel like a kid--I have a good, steady job, but it's probably not where I want to be in the long run and I feel like until I'm actually working on something that feels real, important, and viable I won't feel like an adult. I also still constantly fight the urge to climb trees and do handstands in the supermarket. I am under the impression adults aren't supposed to do these things or have nearly irresistible desires to do them.

One reason a lot of people I know still live at home is because their college degrees don't mean much. Everyone has them, and even if they're in something practical, most B.A.s really aren't helping them get decent work. So they take a year or two off, save money by living at home and working a lousy job, and then go back to grad school (during which they also live at home to save money). If you figure they graduated college at 22, took two years to get the money to go back to school at 24, and then had two years of grad school, at 26 they're just starting to look at moving out of their parent's house--and suddenly no one's hiring, there are tons of people with a lot of experience on the job market, and they can't get the real jobs that the master's degrees were supposed to make them competitive for. The people I know stuck in this situation are not happy about it.

[Jaime L]

One reason a lot of people I know still live at home is because their college degrees don't mean much. Everyone has them, and even if they're in something practical, most B.A.s really aren't helping them get decent work. So they take a year or two off, save money by living at home and working a lousy job, and then go back to grad school (during which they also live at home to save money). If you figure they graduated college at 22, took two years to get the money to go back to school at 24, and then had two years of grad school, at 26 they're just starting to look at moving out of their parent's house--and suddenly no one's hiring, there are tons of people with a lot of experience on the job market, and they can't get the real jobs that the master's degrees were supposed to make them competitive for. The people I know stuck in this situation are not happy about it.

Yeah, think this is a key point. The reason a lot of 20 somethings don't have jobs is because they're in school. Because they have to be.

20-30 years ago a bachelor's degree was all it took to get a decent job. The equivalent to a college degree back then is a masters degree now. And as QC mentions, even that's no guarantee these days.

[fitheach]

Thanks for making me feel really, really old.

For what it's worth, for employers, there is measurable data on differences in employee behavior at work in the Gen Y crew. I will have to ask the husband what it, exactly, was - something about needing more positive feedback, etc. That's from the perspective of, you know, what employers should do to maximize the productivity of their Gen Y work force. These things are not also true for Gen X.

Well, with a generation where everyone's a winner and everyone got a trophy, I would imagine they would need to have regular positive feedback. Gen X'ers probably would've found positive feedback suspicious... The difference I've noticed is that a good amount of 20 somethings I've met (for intern and assistant positions) don't really want to start at the bottom and work their way up- they seem to want the top job barely out of college. Maybe their parents told them to expect it that way. :dunno: