Is Neil Gaiman Overrated?

[Candre]

Most of his novels --> Yes they are. It´s all about (though beautiful) ideas, lacking a clear and concise structure.

His comic work --> No it is still underrated, pure genius. Sandman is probably among the best work humankind created so far.

[Ser Paladin]

Anansi Boys was my least favorite of his novels, and Fragile Things was not on the level of Smoke & Mirrors, so he may be experiencing a slump... however...

American Gods, Stardust, and Good Omens are among my most frequent re-reads. Everything Gaiman did in AG was effective, IMO, including the "dull" Shadow as the main character. When you are in the midst of a con with Mr. Wednesday and the rest of those characters, you need your POV to let it unfold.

As the father of a teen, the Graveyard Book, Stardust, Coraline, and Mirrormask are among my daughter's favorites.

And Sandman is unassailable.

When you've got a shelf-load of writerly awards, the most acclaimed work in a particular medium, and even a few movie adaptations of your books to your credit, it's hard to call the man over-rated.

[Errant Bard]

I didn't read much from him, but out of what I read, I found Sandman average -mostly threading on what comics around here had been doing forever, but lacking a little something, couldn't say what-, I worship Good Omens, I loved Anansi Boys, and I liked Neverwhere and Coraline (neverwhere's concept was cool, but it lacked something to really and truly take life)... so that's pretty positive so far. Then I watched some interviews and read his blog and all combined, I can say that I love the man himself, even outside of his job as author (or at least the persona he projects, if he dissembles.)

Compared to other authors I can think of, I feel he's correctly rated, following that, and I need to get in gear and read at least American Gods.

[Theda Baratheon]

>Sandman

>Average

:shocked:

[Eponine]

Good Omens = average

[Errant Bard]

>Sandman

>Average

:shocked:

People with different tastes, shocking! This being said, are you familiar with Franco-Belgian comics? Like, I don't know, L'Incal or the Nikopol Trilogy?

Also, that quoting and answering style you used, it should probably be reserved for trolling on that other imageboard.

Good Omens = average

Hmm, is this an invitation to write a "your mom" joke? :)

[Arthmail]

I bought American Gods and never returned. It was fine enough, if i'm travelling or need something quick while i take a poo, but it never inspired me to buy more.

[brook]

Even this new one, Ocean at the End of the Lane. I read the first chapter of it on Amazon, and even though they are really billing this as "Gaiman's first adult novel in many years" it feels very much for kids and young adults to me, right from the start. Certainly no more adult than the Graveyard Book, which was certainly YA.

Having just finished it I'd say that it starts with a very YA vibe and then get's progressively creepier. I described it this morning as feeling similar to the beginning of lord of the rings that starts with the same feel as The Hobbit and then hits you with the Black Rider.

It's still very Gaiman, with a mythical, fairy tale feel that is probably closer to Neverwhere and Stardust than American Gods. I'd be comfortable giving it to a teen to read but I wouldn't call it YA either.

[Theda Baratheon]

People with different tastes, shocking! This being said, are you familiar with Franco-Belgian comics? Like, I don't know, L'Incal or the Nikopol Trilogy?

Also, that quoting and answering style you used, it should probably be reserved for trolling on that other imageboard.

Whoah! I really wasn't being very serious :P

Oh, I don't use that image board, so you can kind of leave your misplaced elitism aside, I just think it's a useful form of internet punctuation...

No need to be so hostile. I used a silly emoticon, oh noes!

[polishgenius]

So... Ocean at the End of the Lane is fabulous. My opinion may change slightly once it's percolated (though Gaiman's books haven't once yet got worse in my estimation with time) but on first impression I think it's my favourite of his so far.

It certainly seems his most heartfelt and personal.

It does help that stories that invoke a fairytale feel always rate highly with me, and this does that brilliantly.

Even this new one, Ocean at the End of the Lane. I read the first chapter of it on Amazon, and even though they are really billing this as "Gaiman's first adult novel in many years" it feels very much for kids and young adults to me, right from the start. Certainly no more adult than the Graveyard Book, which was certainly YA.

I don't think there's any problem with a book being for kids/YA anyway, but there's a very deliberate thing going on here with that- it's a book written about childhood, for adults, and deliberately invokes that childlike feel - but there are things it's saying that are pretty squarely aimed at adult readers. It's also as I say very fairytale which always tends to give a 'for kids' vibe even when it's pretty clearly not.

I mean, you could probably give it to the typical reader of 'YA' books without trouble, but it's aimed at growed ups.

On Sandman: Franco-Belgian comics are fucking awesome, though I haven't read enough because until quite recently they haven't really been translated into English (and I'm not in Poland enough to get hold of them easily). And I can see how someone who grew up on them would rate Sandman slightly lower than otherwise, since it's not gonna be quite as different as it is to English readers (as it happens, I'm certain the Sandman - and the whole success of Vertigo afterwards- has a very great deal to do with the fact that things like L'Incal are getting republished in English nowadays.

Mind you, I don't think those European comics are that far away from 2000AD so, ya know, maybe it's just the Americans. >_>

Aaanyways, the point being, even knowing French comics I find it odd that someone would find Sandman as low as 'average'. Mostly because you might genuinely be the first person I've come across that thinks that. But each to his own. :P I think it's one of the greatest things that's ever been written ever. Particularly Brief Lives.

[Captain Sheepf*cker]

Yeah, to call Sandman average is ridiculous - even considering subjective points of view - it's like calling Stanek's writing good - sorry, you're just wrong - subjective or whatever..........no.

[thecryptile]

Gaiman's not overrated at all. Sandman was awesome-- one of the best comics ever IMO, American Gods is one of the best "urban fantasies ever written IMO. Gaiman deserves all the accolades he's gotten.

[Aussie Rob]

Gaimen is a good writer. Let's get that up on the table. And compared to George R.R. Martin (in terms of style at least), he's a particularly good writer.

(Which might be heresy to say around these parts but it's true...)

But, yes, there's a sort of aura growing around Gaimen in the past 5 years, especially, where he's becoming a "go to" name for most geeks to reference.

I don't even know if half the geeks who I see referencing him even know his work, or have just watched Stardust and/or his Doctor Who episodes...

[TheLordHumongous]

But, yes, there's a sort of aura growing around Gaimen in the past 5 years, especially, where he's becoming a "go to" name for most geeks to reference.

That's probably because of his internet presence. Also a lot of his work is very overtly "clever" and "quirky" and reference packed and that's the sort of thing that all the really cool nerds go in for nows days. And he's a very talented writer and yarnspinner.

[Errant Bard]

That's probably because of his internet presence.

Indeed. He also made a few interviews where not only did he show he was a good guy, but also that he had ideas that contrasted vividly with what is usually expected of writers. Like

or his opinion on what authors owed the readership.

And he's a very talented writer and yarnspinner.

He's polishing his craft, too.

Also there was Stardust and Coraline on the big screen in 2007 and 2009. Fits the five years timespan too. TV and cinema have a sadly bigger audience than books, so he certainly got more exposure.

Whoah! I really wasn't being very serious

My bad, I thought you were. Just like Sheepfucker a few posts above. Note that it was not hostility, I generally like your posts, I just wondered about your frame of reference. I may have been too brusque on the two words plus an emote form of reply, but the very laconicity of it just feels disrespectful.

Not getting were elitism comes from, but whatever, heh? Ah, unless you mean it's elitism to be lukewarm about the Sandman? Doesn't really make sense to me still.

Aaanyways, the point being, even knowing French comics I find it odd that someone would find Sandman as low as 'average'. Mostly because you might genuinely be the first person I've come across that thinks that. But each to his own.

Indeed. I wish you were also not the odd one, as it's rather common to be called wrong or elitist (though I don't see what's wrong with elitism in the literati field, this address is clearly meant as an insult) when expressing a taste that does not match with the majority, on such things. Some people seemingly feel threatened when someone else does not share their worship for a story they know is popular.

[john]

I think the elitism slur was for telling Theda off for her quoting style.

I haven't read L'Incal but it's reputed to be very good so comparison to it should be a positive thing. The thing about the franco-belge tradition of epic, fantastical scifi comics is that there tends to be a strong vein of humour/satire which i find misplaced. Sandman is more serious, relatively speaking, and with a horror edge, so tonally I find it, and a lot of the rest of the vertigo imprint, more appealing.

It's like in Cowboy Bebop, excellent in many ways, has this weird silliness from time to time that I just try and ignore.

That said, i found Good Omens and Anansi Boys fairly average, so each to his own indeed. I guess I don't like humour.

[Theda Baratheon]

My bad, I thought you were. Just like Sheepfucker a few posts above. Note that it was not hostility, I generally like your posts, I just wondered about your frame of reference. I may have been too brusque on the two words plus an emote form of reply, but the very laconicity of it just feels disrespectful.

Oh, my apologies if it seemed rude, but for future reference, I am very seldom being serious if I'm only writing two or so words and using an emoticon :P

when I'm serious, I writte paragraphs trying badly to persuade someone to my point of view. ^_^

I do agree with polishgenius though, it's not something I've ever seen referred to as 'average' before.

Not getting were elitism comes from, but whatever, heh? Ah, unless you mean it's elitism to be lukewarm about the Sandman? Doesn't really make sense to me still.

Oh no, not at all; I'd never just chuck around a word like elitist or pretentious when it didn't actually make sense, no; to call someone slitist for simply not liking something is quite silly.

I think the elitism slur was for telling Theda off for her quoting style.

This is it.

Telling me to go somewhere else to troll.

But ah well :P No matter.

[polishgenius]

The thing about the franco-belge tradition of epic, fantastical scifi comics is that there tends to be a strong vein of humour/satire which i find misplaced. Sandman is more serious, relatively speaking, and with a horror edge, so tonally I find it, and a lot of the rest of the vertigo imprint, more appealing.

Presumably you either haven't read or didn't like Bone, the other greatest English language fantasy comic, then. :P Mind you that's probably a bit different coz it's more up-front with the comedy.

Anyways, have you read Thorgal? It's a lot more straightforward than either Sandman or what I know of the other Franco-Belgian comics I have read (it's a lot like a viking Conan, basically), but it's a great fantasy with an SF edge that doesn't do the comedy/satire thing. And the art is stunning.

The last five volumes went off the rails a bit, sadly. But it's quality until then.

[john]

Presumably you either haven't read or didn't like Bone, the other greatest English language fantasy comic, then. :P Mind you that's probably a bit different coz it's more up-front with the comedy.

I'm aware of Bone but I didn't get around to reading it yet. I think that one would be ok, it's not so much the comedy as the disconnect between the darker themes and the slapstick situations or buffoon characters that bothers me.

Actually, my favourite french language comic (so far) is Ric Hochet, which has plenty of daft moments but gets away with it cos it's fairly lighthearted in tone anyway.

Anyways, have you read Thorgal? It's a lot more straightforward than either Sandman or what I know of the other Franco-Belgian comics I have read (it's a lot like a viking Conan, basically), but it's a great fantasy with an SF edge that doesn't do the comedy/satire thing. And the art is stunning.

The last five volumes went off the rails a bit, sadly. But it's quality until then.

I have read some of Thorgal in Polish. It seems really interesting but my polish is a lot more limited than my french. It's also my wife's favourite comic series. I've thought about picking it up in french but it seems silly when there's a stack of volumes on our shelf and I really should be improving my polish anyway.

[Filippa Eilhart]

I'll remember this.