Boardwalk Empire - Thread #2 (apparently this evolved into a SPOILER thread behind my back)

[Stego]

Nope, never served. Yes, I knew a few veterans of Korea and one from Vietnam. Only one met the criteria you've listed as what a veteran should look like. As to vets of the more recent wars of the 1990s and 2000s, you're right, I don't know any. But that doesn't mean I'm just going to believe they all look like the Hulk. Anyhow, that doesn't really make a difference. Any veteran of a war fought in the past twenty five years (the ones I'm assuming you're familiar with/served with, correct me if I have you're age too young) also served under different conditions, with more physical training, and are all volunteers (assuming you served in the US military forces). Vets of WWI were more likely conscripted, spent a short period of time undergoing basic training, and then fought till they got to come home. Poor nutrition and too much time sitting around in trenches, as well as illness, would have slimmed them down, not built them up. Jimmy looks like young man in the 1920s. Thus, he meets the description of a survivor of trench warfare.

A volunteer army is going to be different than a conscripted army. It takes a certain kind of person to enlist when its not compulsory. So the attitudes of the soldiers are going to be different. The conditions you served under are different than those of ninety five years ago. Its ignorant to assume the vets of that war are going to look the same as the vets of more recent wars. Its obnoxious to pretend your service (and my lack of) gives basis to your over-generalized claim.

As to his ability to beat the photographer's ass, the guy seemed pretty lanky to me, maybe a bit taller, but he was caught off guard, disoriented, wholly unprepared to fight, and Jimmy was seeing red. Adrenaline, all that shit. He's got the advantage. I guess throwing him out the window like that with a wounded leg could be a bit too difficult, but I'll leave that to artistic license.

You still don't know what I mean. It has nothing to do with looks or musculature, but with bearing and demeanor. Gimpy McBarbie does not pull it off.

Further, he physically could not accomplish what he supposedly accomplished in last nights episode. His occasional injury would not allow for it. He could not get a running start because he could not run. He lifted a larger man, struggling, from a standing position and threw him bodily, not into, but through a waist high window, all on one leg.

Fantastical.

If they wanted Jimmy to be a badass, they should have cast a badass.

[SwordoftheMorning]

Not a war vet, are ya? Don't know any, do ya? It's ridiculous to the ignorant, perhaps. Sorta like evolution or magnets.

Tough guys can be pretty, I suppose. But they can't be little fops, like the guys they cast so as not to overshadow Buscemi's milquetoastishness too much. Last night, for instance, Photographer boy would have tossed Gimpy McBarbie all around the boardwalk. We're supposed to believe that this unmuscled physical nothing picked up the larger man and threw him bodily through a window that started at waist height with only the one leg to push off of? Laughable. He would have a hard time throwing his son through that window.

Well I am Stego, and at the time I weighed barely 145 lbs (at 5'9" tall). I spent many years in the army, most with the 1st Ranger BN and I've seen tough, mean guys come in all shapes and sizes. I've been asked by many of the much bigger men I served with "how the hell do u do it? this is kicking MY ass". Heart, desire, etc. that has nothing to do with size. I grew up in the gang-infested heart of the south side of Chicago and have seen guys smaller than me simply take bigger guys to the fucking woodshed on more than one occasion.

Michael Pitt's Jimmy is more than convincing when he switches to his sociopathic side, and I don't wanna make this personal, but tossing a bigger man across a room in reality has nothing to do with size. It has to do with knowing how to fight, leverage, and adrenaline. So I have to say your criticisms are pretty unfounded and unrealistic. This is a television drama. Stephan Grahams Capone isn't really working for me, but to enjoy drama's such as these, one has to engage is at least a small degree of suspension of disbelief.

[Stego]

I'm not talking size, Sword. Not for the vet part. Most of them are not huge guys, actually. I was making two seperate points. He does not pull off the vet part and he does not pull off the badass part. Separately.

That said, Tin Woodsman is nigh perfect.

[Ken Stone]

Further, he physically could not accomplish what he supposedly accomplished in last nights episode. His occasional injury would not allow for it. He could not get a running start because he could not run. He lifted a larger man, struggling, from a standing position and threw him bodily, not into, but through a waist high window, all on one leg.

Also wouldn't you be all ripped up if you flew through a plate glass window? I had a friend who punched through a window and it ripped his hand to shreds. If there was a shard of glass on the bottom of the pane it was slice your guts open and leave your entrails dragging behind you, which would have made the scene much cooler.

[drawkcabi]

Jimmy broods almost to an emo point and that could get annoying if there wasn't the other side to him.

Each time he got violent, in the pilot with the men in the woods, in Chicago with the Irish mob, and last night with the Italians, I see Jimmy switch into cold blooded bad ass mode and it works for me.

[Mexal]

Does no one have a problem with casting?

The 'tough guys' in this show are about as believable as Justin Bieber would be as Conan. Jimmy looks like a porcelain doll, not a trench warfare survivor. (How does one return from a war where heads were shaved weekly to prevent the spread of lice... with a foot of pretty blond locks?) This actor would have been better cast in Disney's Tangled.

The women have been well cast, granted. Gretchen Moll steals the show, though every female has been wonderful.

It's just the men who suck. Every single one of them (sans Luciano) and most particularly one of my favorite actors; Steve Buscemi. He's awful as Nucky.

Van Alden is the exact same character as the preacher from Carnivale. He sucked in that, too.

I think Buscemi is perfect as Nucky.

And was.n't Jimmy in the hospital for months because of nearly getting blown up? I'm sure he could have grown some hair there.

[SwordoftheMorning]

I'm not talking size, Sword. Not for the vet part. Most of them are not huge guys, actually. I was making two seperate points. He does not pull off the vet part and he does not pull off the badass part. Separately.

That said, Tin Woodsman is nigh perfect.

ok, so u dont like Pitt's portrayal. Valid criticism. I find it pretty much dead on, but that's me. In my life, I've come across more "Bodie Broadus" types than I care to remember. The mild, smallish, disarming types. Often pleasant and funny, or just quiet .... but capable of unbelievable rage and violence when provoked. Pitt's Jimmy reminds me of them.

[jurble]

Speaking of Pitt, is he distantly related to Brad Pitt? They look vaguely similar enough to be cousins of some sort.

[Stego]

Also wouldn't you be all ripped up if you flew through a plate glass window? I had a friend who punched through a window and it ripped his hand to shreds. If there was a shard of glass on the bottom of the pane it was slice your guts open and leave your entrails dragging behind you, which would have made the scene much cooler.

It's not reinforced plate glass like we have nowadays. It's probably just a glass pane. But yeah, he'd be bleeding some.

[elmis]

Loved Chalky in last night's episode, how can anyone say the actor portraying him he was not a good cast choice?

I don't know if it is just me, could be, but in about 50% of his scenes it's almost as if Omar Little got a suit and jumped 90 years back in time. Talking with the same accent he used in The Wire, using the same phrases, ect. In some scenes, like when he talked about his father the woodcutter, or when he was listening to Nucky and Jimmy in this episode he's very in "BE character", but there are other times when he's not - at least not to me.

Might be that I had too high expectations, as I loved him in The Wire, but it's been one of the few things I've nitpicked at about the show.

[Morrigan]

Does no one have a problem with casting?

The 'tough guys' in this show are about as believable as Justin Bieber would be as Conan. Jimmy looks like a porcelain doll, not a trench warfare survivor. (.... Steve Buscemi. He's awful as Nucky.

No, no and no. The casting is great.

Whoever plays Van Alden, while not having the most interesting character, certainly can handle the evangelical pervert thing.

No kidding, the guy has a constantly constipated look to him hahah. Perfect face to play an uptight hypocrite.

Remember, Hitler was a trench warfare survivor. Hardly an imposing specimen of physical might.

Good point.

[Brandon Stark]

EDIT: Addressed in a post I initially missed.

On the show itself I'm still impressed. They're trying to pull off some storytelling devices that are a cut above anything not named Mad Men even attempts.

[Stego]

Here is a guy with a similar body type; maybe even smaller, who would be believable as Jimmy. That dude has been hungry in his life. That dude would eat your fucking children. That passes as a survivor of trench warfare.

[The Imp's Advocate]

Well, Hitler would eat your baby, but he'd have five SS officers subdue it first. Trench warfare takes all types, and the bad-asses aren't always the ones who survive.

Stego, I'm guessing you didn't like Brother Mouzone in The Wire?

[Ran]

Here's another, a survivor of the Somme.

Eat your children? Looks likelier to gather them around and tell them stories. "In a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit..."

Seriously, yeah, all types. Jimmy looks as believable a survivor of the trenches as anyone else. The myth of the thousand yard stare common to men who've seen combat is just that: myth.

[SwordoftheMorning]

Stego, just because that dude looks like he just spent the night in the trench and hasn't shaved since puberty doesn't make him look tougher or deadlier than Jimmy. You can not like the actor and base it on the opinion he looks too wussy for the part, that's valid. But insisting that combat veterans somehow have a certain "dangerous" look about them is both false and silly.

I'm either related to or friends with vets from every

American conflict since WWII, including myself and no matter how disturbing their experiences may have been ( the stories of some of the brutal violence in Nam top all IMO) not a single one of them look like

they'd "eat your children". The Richard Harrow character alone stands as a stark contridiction to ur theory. He is prolly twice as dangerous as Jimmy, but

most people would dismiss him as nothing but a

crippled freak.

There are castings in this show I don't like. Torrio, Capone and Chalky come to mind. Yes, Chalky. I love Michael K Williams and Omar was epic, but He feels all wrong for this roles. A successful Black gangster in the 20's wouldn't be so roughhewn. The character Harry Belafonte played in the movie Kansas City, "Seldom Seen" would be much closer to a realistic model.

But that being said, none of them are actually bad.

[Insert Edit]

Wha? Casting overly pretty actors? No way!

[Stego]

Here's another, a survivor of the Somme.

Eat your children? Looks likelier to gather them around and tell them stories. "In a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit..."

Seriously, yeah, all types. Jimmy looks as believable a survivor of the trenches as anyone else. The myth of the thousand yard stare common to men who've seen combat is just that: myth.

You're just upset because you're also too pretty to be a man and so you are taking this criticism to heart. It's ok, Ran, in case of a Zombie Apocalypse, you can join my harem.

[ogbebaba]

Here's another, a survivor of the Somme.

Eat your children? Looks likelier to gather them around and tell them stories. "In a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit..."

:rofl:

thanks that made my day

yeah the actor playing jimmy is a pretty boy but like others said when he goes into psycho mode like when that guy "talked him into shooting him" its completely believable

and yes stego the tin woodsman is perfect and a great character

[fitheach]

I think saying there were no good looking guys in the WW1 trenches (who survived) is a bit silly. I'm sure there were all kinds of men lookswise, and a pretty face doesn't mean the dude can't be a good soldier or a psycho. Jimmy is a bit of a psycho, and Richard (who had been a good looking guy before half his face got blown off) is definitely a psycho. Although a nice one.

As for the actor playing Jimmy not pulling off the Vet part. He's supposed to be a veteran of WW1, so I imagine they may have had a different demeanor than a Vet from WW2 or Vietnam (let alone todays soldiers). Society was different, so they acted accordingly. I've seen photos of my Great Uncles (after they returned from the Great War) and they looked skinny and haunted, maybe thinner and less healthy looking than the actor- but pretty close. And they went to the war from South Jersey (mainland near A.C.)- Jimmy and Co. could be based on them... I don't have a problem with the actors body language, he's known to be a method actor so I imagine he may have done a bit of research. But whatever, it's a TV show. :dunno:

As for Jack Huston, WOW!!! Totally has the Huston acting chops (and cheekbones)... John Huston would be proud of his grandson- me thinks.