List of mistakes in the books

[LadyoftheNorth72]

The only mistake I have noticed in the English books is when Cersei is confronted by Kevan for seducing Lancel, and he refers to Lancel as her nephew. He is actually her cousin.

[FanTasy]

I'm not sure it hasn't been noticed before and I don't have the books at hand. When Merrett rides up to Oldstones to his fatal date, he wants to ride back to Oldtown to drink the gold away. I was a bit confused - to say the least, Which Oldtown? Not the one in the South, surely.

[Lebronn Jaime]

"I could just get back on my horse, ride to Oldtown, and drink the gold away."

He doesn't say he could ride back to Oldtown. I took it as "I have the gold. I could just keep riding and not even meet with the outlaws. I could be as far away as Oldtown." A flight of fancy, in other words.

[FanTasy]

"I could just get back on my horse, ride to Oldtown, and drink the gold away."

He doesn't say he could ride back to Oldtown. I took it as "I have the gold. I could just keep riding and not even meet with the outlaws. I could be as far away as Oldtown." A flight of fancy, in other words.

Thanks for looking up the exact quote :cool4: Well, it would still confuse me, I think, when reading the epilogue as I've read it the first time, with the map of Westeros at hand. Maybe Oldtown is a common name for a town. And that the one near Oldstones is not listed at the map of the lands near Oldstones.

[Woman of War]

I hate the translation of Tyrion's "courting" speech to Sansa in their desastrous wedding night when in German he describes himself as "so gut bestückt wie jeder andere Mann" (paraphrasing, I read it in a bookshop only, at home I have the English edition), something like "as well equipped as any other man". This is really vulgar compared to the original text. I believe there it is "I am just like any other man"

[Roughspun]

Has anyone any idea where the Guildhall of the Alchemists really is located? First it's on Rhaenys's Hill, but then, when Tyrion leaves Hallyne it is on Visenya's Hill.

Now that The Lands of Ice and Fire is out, could someone have a look what the King’s Landing map there says?

Also, I’m unable to locate the instance where the Guildhall is described as being under Rhaenys’s Hill … Got it!

[TheSpottedCat]

First ... why make Renly and Stannis princes instead of lords? This was not an oversight by GRRM. It was a deliberate choice on his part.

Bran and Rickon are also given the title Prince, even though they are the brothers, not sons of a king. Maybe in the ASOIAF world, the siblings of the sovereign are also considered royalty. It's interesting, though, because Catelyn doesn't become a Queen, Princess or Queen Mother, so it's not for all first degree relatives. Maybe it's just for possible heirs?

[Lord Varys]

On that prince thing:

Cat does not become Queen Mother, yes, but when Robert became King Stannis and Renly were pretty much in the same situation than Bran and Rickon were, when Robb was declared king. They were his immediate heirs, but only his brothers. They would be pushed back in the line of succession as soon as Robb had children of his own body. But that would not have excluded them from the line of succession, just as Stannis and Renly remained there. So one should really assume that both Stannis and Renly were styled princes when Robert ascended the Iron Throne, and would continue to be styled that way even after Cersei had given births to 'Robert's children'.

That's even more the case since the Baratheon brothers are the grandchildren of a Targaryen princess. Sure, Steffon Baratheon most likely was not styled 'Prince Steffon' because he was technically a Baratheon and the heir to Storm's End, but he was cousin to the royal couple, and actually not that far behind in the line of succession as long as Aerys had only one son.

Keeping that in mind, it makes even less sense to assume that Stannis and Renly would not style themselves 'princes'.

1. They are brothers to the ruling king.

2. They were already closely related to the Targaryen dynasty before Robert took the Iron Throne.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

The only mistake I have noticed in the English books is when Cersei is confronted by Kevan for seducing Lancel, and he refers to Lancel as her nephew. He is actually her cousin.

Cersei is Tywin's caughter, Tywin is Kevan's brother, Lancel is Kevan's son. That makes Lancel Cersei's nephew. Also cousin, sure, but the term nephew is still correct as well :)

[falcotron]

Cersei is Tywin's caughter, Tywin is Kevan's brother, Lancel is Kevan's son. That makes Lancel Cersei's nephew. Also cousin, sure, but the term nephew is still correct as well :)

No it isn't.

In English, a nephew is the son of one of your siblings (or siblings-in-law), not a son of your uncle. (In some parts of northern England, nephew is also used for a son of your cousin—that is, for a first cousin once removed—but still not for a son of your uncle.)

And, while Westeros may not have the exact same kinship customs as England, being from a younger generation is central to the meaning of the word. The French word neveu was traditionally used for any male relative of a younger generation, as with Hugh Capet being the neveu, meaning grandson, of Robert I. It later became specifically the son of a sibling (I'm not sure whether before it was borrowed into English, or independently in both languages). It's hard to imagine it could instead become a name for any collateral relative, even of the same or older generation.

So, it is definitely wrong to call Lancel—the son of the brother of her father—a nephew of Cersei. (He is, of course, a nephew of Tywin.)

[Skoboe]

I didn't start reading the series until all current books were out, so I knew if I started I would be up for over $100 easily...but halfway through the first book there was a should of instead of a should have. I very nearly stopped reading then and there.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

No it isn't.

In English, a nephew is the son of one of your siblings (or siblings-in-law), not a son of your uncle. (In some parts of northern England, nephew is also used for a son of your cousin—that is, for a first cousin once removed—but still not for a son of your uncle.)

And, while Westeros may not have the exact same kinship customs as England, being from a younger generation is central to the meaning of the word. The French word neveu was traditionally used for any male relative of a younger generation, as with Hugh Capet being the neveu, meaning grandson, of Robert I. It later became specifically the son of a sibling (I'm not sure whether before it was borrowed into English, or independently in both languages). It's hard to imagine it could instead become a name for any collateral relative, even of the same or older generation.

So, it is definitely wrong to call Lancel—the son of the brother of her father—a nephew of Cersei. (He is, of course, a nephew of Tywin.)

In several cultures the term nephew is correct for the children of your uncle or aunt. It's about the culture that GRRM is creating.

So while in english culture it might not be correct, as you state, in several other cultures it is correct.

[Lord Varys]

That 'nephew' mentioning was clearly incorrect, especially since Lancel is called Cersei's and Tyrion's cousin in other occasions. GRRM is normally pretty precise with this, having Tommen calling Ser Kevan 'great-uncle' in ASoS, and so on.

But there are other lapses of this sort. In TMK,Bloodraven and Egg call each other 'cousin' instead of '(great-)uncle' and '(great/grand-)nephew'. Bloodraven is the half-brother of Egg's grandfather, which makes him his great-uncle, not his cousin. Those are well-educated people in a feudal society whose backbone are family relations. They would know how they are related to their kin. I had them address each other as 'Großonkel' and 'Großneffe' in German, since 'Vetter' for 'cousin' would have only confused readers who did not know how they were related to each other.

By German standards Red Ronnet Connington is also Jon's nephew, by the way (and he refers to him as his 'uncle' in the English Epilogue, if I remember correctly), since he is the son of Jon's cousin, which makes him in German his 'Onkel 2. Grades'. But Cersei and Lancel are of the same generation, and that's first cousin in English, and 'Vetter 1. Grades' in German.

[Crow]

Cousin, unlike nephew, is sometimes used in the more general meaning of kinsman, hence their choice of word is likely intentional to avoid the illegitimate half-great-uncle thing. This does occur in german as well, e.g. Vetternwirtschaft, where no actual cousins are needed. Also note that Shakespeare's Two Noble Kinsmen is translated into Die beiden edlen Vettern.

[Crow]

Vettermörder might also be an alternative for kinslayer, perhaps? Although I find Sippenmörder rather good.

[Lord Varys]

Yeah, but, well, 'Vetter' still has the ring of referring to a person close to your own age, at least in the regions a grew up. You call a distant relative in the age of your father or grandfather rather 'Onkel' than 'Cousin' or 'Vetter'.

And I think Daeron's sons and grandson would never call the Hand of the King 'half-(great)-uncle' during official meetings, since that would disrespectful and cheap (okay, Aerion might do it, but Daeron, Aemon, and Egg most certainly not). Although there is a chance that Maekar's sons may try to distance themselves from bastard-born Bloodraven by referring to his bastard heritage, Bloodraven himself should make it clear in his styling of Egg that he is older and wiser, i.e. an uncle rather than a cousin.

'Kinsmen' I'd also translate as 'Vetter' in the more distant sense.

[Inc4]

Bran and Rickon are also given the title Prince, even though they are the brothers, not sons of a king. Maybe in the ASOIAF world, the siblings of the sovereign are also considered royalty. It's interesting, though, because Catelyn doesn't become a Queen, Princess or Queen Mother, so it's not for all first degree relatives. Maybe it's just for possible heirs?

Robert had sons who would be princes and not his brothers. Robb did not have any children and so his brothers becames 'princes'. Also, I think King > Lord > Prince. As a 'Lord' you are still ruling some part of the land, whereas as a Prince, you are just waiting for your sire to die.

[Skoboe]

Bran and Rickon are also given the title Prince, even though they are the brothers, not sons of a king. Maybe in the ASOIAF world, the siblings of the sovereign are also considered royalty. It's interesting, though, because Catelyn doesn't become a Queen, Princess or Queen Mother, so it's not for all first degree relatives. Maybe it's just for possible heirs?

Prince Oberyn? Prince Viserys? Princess Danaerys?

From RL - Queen Elizabeth's sister was Princess Margaret, all of her children are Princes or Princesses, as are all of their children. None of them will lose that honorific when Charles then William becomes King.

[Lord Varys]

The Princes thing is a mistake, in my opinion, since Bran, Rickon, Arya, and Sansa technically become princes after Robb is declared king, just as Shireen, and Theon/Asha are promoted to prince(ss) after their father's declare themselves king. Robert was not married when he ascended the Iron Throne, so one of his first acts should have been to name his brother(s) his presumptive heirs and declare them Princes of the Realm. He gave Renly Storm's End, but did not name his brothers Princes as part of the royal family? That makes little sense, if you ask me.

Especially since their grandmother had been a Targaryen princess, anyway. They were only two generations away from the princely title, so it should definitely have been granted to them...

[RumHam]

Two of my favorite mistakes that I did not see mentioned:

In Clash, well after Jamie has lost his hand:

Jaime cupped his hands to shout. “You in there! Open your gates, or I’ll kick them down!”

It was not until Qyburn and Steelshanks added their voices that a head finally appeared on the battlements above them.

and the wrong septon at the Wall: (though I suppose you could argue this is Jon confusing their names.)

Othell Yarwyck and Bowen Marsh were amongst the missing. Septon Chayle had emerged briefly from the sept, fingering the seven-sided crystal on the thong about his neck, only to retreat inside again once the prayers began.