Prince of Thorns - Review

[red snow]

wtf is this shit, i want this book now. Aug 2.? And the OP read it in march! sorcery abounds here

What confuses me is that it was out in April in Dutch and now in German? Does this mean it's been translated and released over there before an english version is released. That sounds like sorcery unless Mark wrote them in those languages first. Hopefully he'll be able to explain such deeds - the banal answer may be that Holland/Germany bought the rights to the book a lot sooner than in the UK/US.

[polishgenius]

I picked this up on the pre-order thingy when I got China Mieville's Kraken, and I'm reading this rather than starting that: from me that's a hell of a compliment.

[Mark Lawrence]

wtf is this shit, i want this book now. Aug 2.? And the OP read it in march! sorcery abounds here

Apologies! It's been a long wait all round. I signed in January 2010, hits shelves in English August 2011...

My first review was actually back in December:

http://www.marktimmony.com/2010/12/one-to-watch-out-for.html

What confuses me is that it was out in April in Dutch and now in German? Does this mean it's been translated and released over there before an english version is released. That sounds like sorcery unless Mark wrote them in those languages first. Hopefully he'll be able to explain such deeds - the banal answer may be that Holland/Germany bought the rights to the book a lot sooner than in the UK/US.

Heyne/Germany got the rights at the same time as Penguin/Ace, Luitingh/Netherlands a few weeks later. I'm told the reason they got to print so much earlier was that having invested considerably less in the book (for their relatively smaller fantasy markets) they didn't need the time to ensure good distribution.

My editor said the edit on 'Prince of Thorns' was one of the lightest/quickest she'd ever done, so none of the delay is down to that.

I was wondering if this still counts as a "sale" for you Mark? It would seem a shame if all the folk eager to get hold of the book manage to nab it for free. I guess it could still generate good word of mouth.

They don't count as sales, sadly. Hopefully though, if you like the book you'll be positioning yourselves at the exits to bookshops and refusing to let anyone leave without buying the hardback.

ETA: *summon author* Mark, just checked amazon and don't see a Kindle version. Would pre-order if available in that format. Hint. Hint.

I'm pretty sure there will be a kindle version released at the same time (I'll check). Certainly the Kindle Post have already asked me for an article/interview ... and it would odd for them to do that if they weren't expecting the book on kindle soon...

Hope that's covered all the unknowns!

I'll thank Wert once more for the review. I've been reading my way through the Wertzone back-catalogue of reviews over the past year and am always impressed by the fact they're not only indepth and insightful, but on the money.

Cheers,

Mark

[Vegan Rob]

Capsule review: Recommended.

Longer review to follow, maybe, when my head hurts less (not because of the book btw)

Especially liked: too drunk to figure out how to post spoiler text. But it was good.

EDIT: don't remember posting this! Look, I'm not going to review the book, I have no idea how to go about such a thing. But I liked it. Jorg is like Artemis Fowl's evil(ler) brother, which should be recommendation enough. But don't give this book to the kids, too dark'n'edgy. Plenty of grim, quite a lot of ick, enough lol to balance it. (I only hope the humour was intentional and my laughing was not a reflection of how terrible a person I am). Well done Mark Lawrence.

[polishgenius]

They don't count as sales, sadly. Hopefully though, if you like the book you'll be positioning yourselves at the exits to bookshops and refusing to let anyone leave without buying the hardback.

I feel kind of bad now. :unsure:

But having stayed up reading it when I really should be sleeping, I can say I'll be heartily recommending it all over the shop. I thoroughly enjoyed that. :cheers:

I wouldn't say it is darker than Bakker, but I suspect that largely comes from the tone: Bakker is serious, whereas this is laced with a wry black humour (not as outright comedic as Abercrombie sometimes leans towards, but in that ballpark) and is delivered in Jorg's charismatic narrative voice. Also, as Wert says, most of the most grim stuff is alluded to rather than outright described, unlike in Bakker. Certainly in terms of dark protagonists, Jorg is easily the most extreme I know of.

A notable new series of the recent set of anti-heroic fantasists, for sure.

[RedEyedGhost]

Not a chance of that. It's only 350 pages long and moves like a whippet that's just sat on a stick of dynamite ;)

Wert, can you (or anybody else that has read the book) talk about this some more in spoiler tags? Because that scene in the early pages of Lord Foul's Bane really put me off of the book. Of course knowing that the main character is a complete bastard before cracking the book, can make many things less stomach turning.

[jurble]

Pfft, Covenant totally just had his leprosy cured, extenuating circumstances I say.

[red snow]

Apologies! It's been a long wait all round. I signed in January 2010, hits shelves in English August 2011...

Heyne/Germany got the rights at the same time as Penguin/Ace, Luitingh/Netherlands a few weeks later. I'm told the reason they got to print so much earlier was that having invested considerably less in the book (for their relatively smaller fantasy markets) they didn't need the time to ensure good distribution.

My editor said the edit on 'Prince of Thorns' was one of the lightest/quickest she'd ever done, so none of the delay is down to that.

They don't count as sales, sadly. Hopefully though, if you like the book you'll be positioning yourselves at the exits to bookshops and refusing to let anyone leave without buying the hardback.

Thanks for some of the answers to the mysteries! It's a shame they don't count as sales as now I'll feel guilty if I enjoy it. Then again if it is good, and you decide to do a london-based signing, I'll buy a copy and whore the promo-proof out to a friend :)

[Antonius Pius]

I have to say, I'm intrigued. I'll be looking for this book come August.

Heyne/Germany got the rights at the same time as Penguin/Ace, Luitingh/Netherlands a few weeks later. I'm told the reason they got to print so much earlier was that having invested considerably less in the book (for their relatively smaller fantasy markets) they didn't need the time to ensure good distribution.

For the Dutch market (which, for fantasy is really small) they probably don't need as much turnover time. I can readily believe it. Also, translating fantasy to Dutch is only moderately succesful, as many readers prefer the English versions. I wouldn't be surprised if the Dutch sales of GRRM's books in English top his sales of the same books in Dutch. Perhaps the publishers want to get Mark's out before they are also available in English, and steal some of the thunder.

[Mark Lawrence]

Like I said Bakker is polarising so it's a gamble of reccommendation. The proof has "the british GRRM" which is even better advertising although it does mean that LAwrence is the "British version of the american version of Tolkien".

Actually I'm a dual national. So perhaps the illegitimate love-child of GRR & JRR? I was born near Chicago so maybe 'Mark Lakes' ... or 'Mark Snow' ... you know nothing, Mark Snow ... yeah that works.

Raised in London from age 1, so I pass as a pure-bred Brit for intents and purposes.

[Hereward]

I'm very intrigued by this, but I suppose I'll wait until August if there's no direct benefit to the author from the Waterstone's deal. At least that'll give me time to work through my "to read" pile.

[john]

Especially liked: too drunk to figure out how to post spoiler text. But it was good.

:lol: Now that's how to write a review!

[polishgenius]

Wert, can you (or anybody else that has read the book) talk about this some more in spoiler tags? Because that scene in the early pages of Lord Foul's Bane really put me off of the book. Of course knowing that the main character is a complete bastard before cracking the book, can make many things less stomach turning.

I think the difference between the things Jorg does - the rape, specifically, happens early, but it applies to most of Jorg's atrocities- and the Covenant scene (and many others- after all, Covenant is not the only rapist protagonist in fantasy, but easily the one that seems to cause most difficulty) is the emotional difficulty of the latter. Jorg is almost glib about his acts, and they're often skimmed over or alluded to rather than described in any case. I think the Covenant scene struck home because (a) it's right there on the page and (B) you already know the character he's doing it to.

I'd also like to say that I hope the discussion over the evilness of the main character doesn't actually overshadow the skill of the book. As Wert says, both Jorg and the supporting cast are skillfully drawn and not nuanceless caricatures. And the pacing is well done- normally if a book is this short with this much action I find aspects rushed, but here I don't. The worldbuilding is sketched, which again is contrary to my normal tastes, but interesting. It's all very slick.

[red snow]

Actually I'm a dual national. So perhaps the illegitimate love-child of GRR & JRR?

Now that would make an interesting quote for the hardback!

[Garlan the Gallant]

I want to read this novel badly! I had my copy pre-ordered as soon as Wert posted his review. However, I happen to have a large internship this summer that will take up most of the time I would have spent reading. That being said, I have quite the commute. Will Prince of Thorns be released as an audiobook? If not, who do I have to kill to make it so? :ninja:

[Mark Lawrence]

I want to read this novel badly! I had my copy pre-ordered as soon as Wert posted his review. However, I happen to have a large internship this summer that will take up most of the time I would have spent reading. That being said, I have quite the commute. Will Prince of Thorns be released as an audiobook? If not, who do I have to kill to make it so? :ninja:

I don't know much about audiobooks - though I have wondered if good actors can make bad dialogue sound good, or if good dialogue can save an audiobook from bad actors - but I should imagine that no debut is made into an audiobook until years later, and then only if it turned out to be a huge success? Or am I wrong? It just seems like quite an undertaking/investment.

It's a nice idea... but I'm not sure killings will help in this instance.

I also like the idea of a graphic novel, but again it will probably hinge on sales rather than slaughter. Back in the land of reality I'm just hoping the book gets read, people have fun with it, and I get to chat about it :)

[casrot]

Loved this bit from the 'Characters' section on the Prince of Thorns website:

Transcript from the trial of Sir Makin of Trent:

Cardinal Helot, papal prosecution: And do you deny razing the Cathedral of Wexten?

Sir Makin: I do not.

Cardinal Helot: Or the sack of Lower Merca?

Sir Makin: No, nor do I deny the sack of Upper Merca.

Cardinal Helot: Let the record show the accused finds amusement in the facts of his crime.

[red snow]

Enjoying the book so far. It has a really fast pace to it and the humour is in a similar vein to Abercrombie's although it's never outright silly. My fears of it being another "coming of age book" have been set aside - it's a great antedote to the aspects of "name of the wind" that I find so frustrating. I can see why it's been fought over by publishers as it has elements of many recent successes (the aforementioned "name of the wind", "lies of locke Lamorra" and the Abercrombie humour/edge) but with it's own voice.

I'll say again that the pacing is excellent and constantly has me saying "one more chapter".

Not really Bakker dark (although I'm only over half way through) but the characters are very morally grey (outright black in places).

I do have one very pressing question but I should spoiler it

It seems very clear that this is a "future earth" story, which thankfully makes sense given all the references to our world. The only thing I'm finding hard to compute is the map - if it is earth then where is it? It sort of looks like europe minus the UK but i was wondering if the weird geography is something that will be explained (climate change/nuclear armageddon) or if it's merely a case of map making being less accurate in a more basic culture?

[Mark Lawrence]

I do have one very pressing question but I should spoiler it

It seems very clear that this is a "future earth" story, which thankfully makes sense given all the references to our world. The only thing I'm finding hard to compute is the map - if it is earth then where is it? It sort of looks like europe minus the UK but i was wondering if the weird geography is something that will be explained (climate change/nuclear armageddon) or if it's merely a case of map making being less accurate in a more basic culture?

It's an accurate map (given some assumptions) and there are small clues scattered around, but I wouldn't expect readers to figure it out at this stage. Book 2 should help in this regard.

[red snow]

It's an accurate map (given some assumptions) and there are small clues scattered around, but I wouldn't expect readers to figure it out at this stage. Book 2 should help in this regard.

Yeah, a closer look seems to make a bit more sense of things. Regarding the world

I thought the interaction with the door security/AI was brilliant. Funny in terms of "what foul mage trapped your sould within this door and captured the feeling of magic being nothing more than incomprehensible science really well. It has me wondering whether the tattoos on the mages are apps on the iphone v10 which uses your skin as the phone :)

I just finished the book this afternoon and have to say it was a really fun read. It's been a while since i sped through a book within a week but the book has a lightning pace throughout and it makes a pleasant change to get a book which covers an entire story in a relatively short space. Jorg definitely is one of the most likeable and twisted anti-heroes (although I think outright villain is fair) to have turned up in a while. He'd be perfectly at home with some of Abercrombie's characters or could be the ultimate bastard in Lynch's Gentlemen Bastards. I also enjoyed Jorg's descriptions of the rest of the gang at the start of each chapter. Hopefully we'll get a bit more on the (surviving) cast in the next book as several of them are quite interesting/fun

especially the mutants and necromancers

.

I'll be up for reading book 2 whenever it comes along and will post a review once Amazon/visual bookshelf will let me :)