Wise Man's Fear II (SPOILERS)

[SkiesOfAzel]

I believe that she believes. I don't think her version is real. OTOH, sygaldry is the written form of sympathy, so there may be a written form of naming. And Yllish is the oldest form of writing, so it's a contender. But many of the reactions she might want to provoke from Kvothe she'd probably unknowingly provoke anyway. I feel like Denna heard about a magic where you write things down, sygaldry, and in a quest for more information heard about the sleeping mind and sort of made things up.

It seems like a metaphor to me, similar to the Chronicler story told by Kvothe. What a historian writes, becomes established as the truth sooner or latter, regardless if it actually true or not. As for the ineffectiveness of her attempts so far, i believe that Bredon is attempting to wake up her sleeper mind, which is something that takes time. True magic doesn't seem to really require a medium, it only requires a true understanding of the target and an unshakable belief. When Felurian was catching starlight to use for Kvothe's cloak, she didn't speak any names, or write anything down.

[Nine of Spades]

I think it's fairly explicit, myself. Bast kills them because he didn't get what he wanted.

What he wanted was for them to get severely beaten and possibly killed by an enraged Kvothe, so the job that Bast gave them was destined to end badly for them, one way or the other. I dont think the fact that he was either willing to "sacrifice" a pair of thieves and thugs, and quite willing to kill them if things went wrong is an accident. In Bast's mind these weren't employees he turned on, but vermin, when they failed to do what he wanted, he took pleasure in putting down.

[Grant]

What he wanted was for them to get severely beaten and possibly killed by an enraged Kvothe, so the job that Bast gave them was destined to end badly for them, one way or the other. I dont think the fact that he was either willing to "sacrifice" a pair of thieves and thugs, and quite willing to kill them if things went wrong is an accident. In Bast's mind these weren't employees he turned on, but vermin, when they failed to do what he wanted, he took pleasure in putting down.

I wonder how much Bast has been responsible for. Could he have done all of this?

1) Arranged for Chronicler to arrive by planting rumors (yes)

2) Loosed Scrael (Speculation)

3) Arranged robbery of Chronicler to take his horse and make him stay at Waystone (Speculation)

4) Creation of Skin Walker with Kvothe homing (Speculation)

5) Arranged robbery (yes)

6) Created two more skin walkers to send back to the Waystone (Speculation)

[Skia]

3) Arranged robbery of Chronicler to take his horse and make him stay at Waystone (Speculation)

Could be, but I don't think that would have been necessary. If he had had his horse yet, he wouldn't have been in such a hurry, so he could have stayed longer - probably without coming late to his meeting. (and he intended to come anyway)

[jaerken]

I wonder how much Bast has been responsible for. Could he have done all of this?

1) Arranged for Chronicler to arrive by planting rumors (yes)

2) Loosed Scrael (Speculation)

3) Arranged robbery of Chronicler to take his horse and make him stay at Waystone (Speculation)

4) Creation of Skin Walker with Kvothe homing (Speculation)

5) Arranged robbery (yes)

6) Created two more skin walkers to send back to the Waystone (Speculation)

Is this a joke?

I can 100% guarantee that sentenced like the following are not in the third book:

Bast: "It was me, Kvothe, who told the Chandrian to kill your family. It was me who made Ambrose break your lute. It was me assuming the guise of Caudicus to make you look brilliant. And it was me who was the door named Valaritas. And now I'm making you tell the story so I can hear how brilliant I am. Thanks for playing"

[Slick Mongoose]

Bast: "It was me, Kvothe, who told the Chandrian to kill your family. It was me who made Ambrose break your lute. It was me assuming the guise of Caudicus to make you look brilliant. And it was me who was the door named Valaritas. And now I'm making you tell the story so I can hear how brilliant I am. Thanks for playing"

"My real name..... is Manet."

[Guy Kilmore]

"My real name..... is Manet."

Who would win between Manet or Kellhus?

[Slick Mongoose]

Stapes gives Kvothe a silver ring and a bone ring at the beginning of WMF. Kvothe returns a gold ring and a bone ring at the end of WMF to him, but Stapes insists Kvothe keep the bone one. It's such an obvious error I spotted it on my first read, but I was like, no, he can't have gotten such a detail wrong. Surely not.

It makes much more sense for Stapes to give Kvothe a silver ring of course. They are both in the Maer's service. I'm sure Rothfuss originally went with the gold and then changed to silver. But then he failed to make the change later in the book.

Like I said, he needs better beta-readers for sure. I would nominate Teaspoon, provided he/she abandons the mad theory that the scrael are in the Lockless box :0)

People were complaining about Kvothe's memory being too good earlier. Clearly it's not that good. :P

[polishgenius]

Who would win between Manet or Kellhus?

He wouldn't stoop to self-harm.

[SkiesOfAzel]

Manet is Chuck Norris ...

[TeaSpoon]

Like I said, he needs better beta-readers for sure. I would nominate Teaspoon, provided he/she abandons the mad theory that the scrael are in the Lockless box :0)

It's not a mad theory, but I'm flattered you appreciate my ocd so highly.

I don't want to be a beta-reader, even if Rothfuss paid me. I read for enjoyment. If I had to edit the text or look for flaws, it would completely destroy the immersion; not to mention the fact that the thought of reading an unfinished, unpolished version fills me with disgust and horror.

An advance reading copy I would read, though my review would consist of vague, unstructured sentiments.

[TeaSpoon]

What he wanted was for them to get severely beaten and possibly killed by an enraged Kvothe, so the job that Bast gave them was destined to end badly for them, one way or the other. I dont think the fact that he was either willing to "sacrifice" a pair of thieves and thugs, and quite willing to kill them if things went wrong is an accident. In Bast's mind these weren't employees he turned on, but vermin, when they failed to do what he wanted, he took pleasure in putting down.

The way I see it, Bast sent a few criminals to the gallows. And he did it in a way that would remind his Reshi of his true self. Bast can have multiple reasons for doing things. Well, the second reason didn't pan out, which was very upsetting, but regardless, the criminals still need killing.

[NostalgiaForInfinity]

Hi. New User here. Loving this thread. Although i agree with jaerken that you can only argue about one specific passage so many times before it gets anecdotal and a tad bit crazy.

One thing i realized while reading this thread is that during the fight with the soldiers, after Kvothe starts talking about how this isn't who he is, one of the soldiers breaks his grip. Now in NoTW, his grip is described as iron like, and he manages to restrain Bast, who i would assume has superhuman strength to go with his speed. While not definite, I would say it lends credence to the idea that Kvothe is faking and he hasn't done something drastic like change his name.

[Garlan the Gallant]

I've forgotten this. When was it again?

I imagine it's poetic rather than an actual magical oath, but it fits. Kvothe finally goes looking for patron, and whoops, there are the Chandrian. Or Ambrose. Or whoever the king he kills is. Something that ends up damaging his left hand and his alar.

Comparing with the other rhyme Kvothe heard and what Meluan shows Kvothe before she found out he was a Ruh:

"One of them a ring unworn" / "One's a ring that's not for wearing"

The round not-a-key Meluan has.

"One a word that is forsworn" / "One's a sharp word not for swearing"

The Yllish story knot on the box.

"One a time that must be right"

Night with no moon? Or a full moon?

"One a candle without light" / "Right beside her husband's candle"

Unsure. The Amyr? Their symbol is said to resemble a candle once.

"One a son who brings the blood"

Male descendent. Kvothe should qualify.

"One a door that holds the flood" / "There's a door without a handle"

Right beside her husband's candle there's a door without a handle-- don't know. I'd assume it's the door itself, but it supposed to "stand before the Lackless door," so... Taken literally, it may be a water door which can be raised to flood the room where the door is. Total speculation though.

"One a thing tight-held in keeping" / "There's a secret she's been keeping"

Again, don't know.

"Then comes that which comes with sleeping" / "She's been dreaming and not sleeping"

Also don't know.

[Garlan the Gallant]

I've forgotten this. When was it again?

I imagine it's poetic rather than an actual magical oath, but it fits. Kvothe finally goes looking for patron, and whoops, there are the Chandrian. Or Ambrose. Or whoever the king he kills is. Something that ends up damaging his left hand and his alar.

Comparing with the other rhyme Kvothe heard and what Meluan shows Kvothe before she found out he was a Ruh:

"One of them a ring unworn" / "One's a ring that's not for wearing"

The round not-a-key Meluan has.

"One a word that is forsworn" / "One's a sharp word not for swearing"

The Yllish story knot on the box.

"One a time that must be right"

Night with no moon? Or a full moon?

"One a candle without light" / "Right beside her husband's candle"

Unsure. The Amyr? Their symbol is said to resemble a candle once.

"One a son who brings the blood"

Male descendent. Kvothe should qualify.

"One a door that holds the flood" / "There's a door without a handle"

Right beside her husband's candle there's a door without a handle-- don't know. I'd assume it's the door itself, but it supposed to "stand before the Lackless door," so... Taken literally, it may be a water door which can be raised to flood the room where the door is. Total speculation though.

"One a thing tight-held in keeping" / "There's a secret she's been keeping"

Again, don't know.

"Then comes that which comes with sleeping" / "She's been dreaming and not sleeping"

Also don't know.

My guess is that this is the same box that Iax used to seal the moon in. Also, it might be that kvothe accidentally, on purpose, or by force had his name sealed away in the box. Without his name he probably could not perform any magic. I also liked the theory that he had his left hand injured. This might explain why he was unable to pick his own lock of the thrice locked one under his bed (that or he is missing the third key). It might be that the lockless box containing his name is in his trunk and only if he could just open it he might be able to regain his name and thus his power. That or whoever locked away his name had power over him like Iax and the moon and took away his magic. Lastly, as per bredan being ash: someone should check the description of his clothing and see if there was any iron described on a belt buckle or something.

This has probably been said: the whole tack thing struck me as a metaphor for being able to destroy kvothe at any time but that would not be a beautiful game; rather make him suffer and steal and hurt the person he loves...maybe even make her betray kvothe. That would be a beautiful game.

Lastly, what happened to skatpi after he told his story? I seem to remember him being taken away or something. Would someone care to enlighten me?

[unJon]

Skarpi was arrented by Tehlins, but later released. The Chronicler is working with him, and Skarpi tipped him off as to where he might find Kvothe based on rumors.

[unJon]

Apologies for double post but you'll see it was worth it:

"Had to let their hired man go because of taxes, and their oldest son took the king's coin early this summer. He's off fighting the rebels in Menat now."

"Meneras," Kote corrected gently.

Coincedence that the blacksmith thinks the rebel stronghold is an anagram for Manet? I think not. :ninja:

[The faceless others]

Just have a thought, Bast is an Amyr. He might be trying to motivate Kvothe for the greater good. I know that this is a weak speculation, but I'm throwing it out there anyway.

Didn't Felurian mention once that the Amyr are not mortals, humans, I can't remember the correct word.

Devi's a dude, remember the robe she owns that Kvothe had worn? LOL

[thistlepong]

Apologies for double post but you'll see it was worth it:

Coincedence that the blacksmith thinks the rebel stronghold is an anagram for Manet? I think not. :ninja:

:cheers:

The ring that's not for wearing might be the unbroken circle of the Edema Ruh

It has the luxury of not being conflated with anything else

Dovetails nicely with Kvothe being the son who brings the blood

Listening through it, I was struck by the heft of the scene where Denna gives Kvothe the lute case. It's a fabulous gift that demonstrates a real understanding of who he is and what he values, right down to the secret compartment. The scene is bookended by (or in close proximity to) Elodin's "Stop grabbing at my tits!" lecture and the assault on Ambrose's rooms - where Kvothe notices Devi has Denna's emerald teardrops. I'm not a Denna fan, but at the moment I'm sure, regardless of anyone's plans for her, that she loved Kvothe.

Makes me wonder what the elements of the worst kind of tragedy are. Kind of also makes me wonder if his heart's desire is the lute and an Angel dies over it.

I won't be surprised if Kaysera gets it's epithet with Sim's blood on it.

[jurble]

Denna betrays him by marrying Ambrose.

DUN DUN DUN.