So we're having an election or something

[Aemon Stark]

Yes, it appears we'll be voting May 2 in the fourth federal election since 2000. It's been a long decade. The issues? Well, Harper is apparently "asking for a majority" (barf), following a successful non-confidence motion yesterday, during which the government was found in contempt of Parliament for concealing costing for, among other things, the purchase of F-35 jets (for the next "no fly" zone, I suppose), the prison costs associated with "tough on crime" legislation, and the odd scandal. I like the way the Ny Times puts it: "Canada's Government, Beset by Scandal, Collapses".

Indeed.

In the meantime, Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff is already being a moron and "ruling out" a coalition, which of course would be utterly without precedent among parliamentary democracies on the Westminster model. Or so Stephen Harper would have us believe with his endless fearmongering about some coalition with "separatists" and/or "socialists".

I honestly have no idea how this election will unfold. I think the Harper government is among the worst we've ever had but I'm extremely cynical about getting rid of them at this time. Ignatieff probably would be better, but I don't know if he can pull it off. And I hope the NDP does well in what is probably Jack Layton's last election.

Well. Onward we go...

[Cantabile]

...Canada has a government?

According to the exposure to Canada through American media, I'm convinced there's nothing but mounties, maple syrup, and hockey in that northern wasteland.

[Demonblade]

I honestly have no idea how this election will unfold. I think the Harper government is among the worst we've ever had but I'm extremely cynical about getting rid of them at this time. Ignatieff probably would be better, but I don't know if he can pull it off. And I hope the NDP does well in what is probably Jack Layton's last election.

Well. Onward we go...

Well if Harper does not get a majority (which is most likely), then his tenure as leader of the Conservatives and/or PM will likely be over. He basically needs a majority at this point or he will have a fight on his hands within his own party over his inability to win one. As for Layton, regardless, this is his last election, as is likely with Duceppe. The Greens simply haven't accomplished much of anything under May's leadership, so if they don't get themselves at least a seat in the House of Commons this time around, expect her to be punted, as well. I would say that the only person who should feel reasonably safe would be Ignatieff, because the Liberals have to realise that this carousel of leaders these last few years has to stop. If he loses, however, I have a feeling that his job will be up for grabs as well, regardless of any sensibility within the Liberal ranks.

For the Liberals to regain power (because, let's face it, they're the only real alternative to Harper), they really need to hammer home the real reason why this government was toppled (i.e. it was found to be in contempt of Parliament), rather than how the Conservatives are trying to spin it as an opportunistic attempt at stealing power over an otherwise-reasonably thought out budget (which it isn't, as it includes several self-serving additions clearly aimed at sucking up to battleground ridings). They also need to keep bringing up the fact that the Conservatives are hypocrites when it comes to their primary sling against the Liberals, that they are a 'reckless coalition', because Harper was quick and willing to do the exact same thing the last time they were on the other side of a minority government. Finally, they need to continuously set the tone, because I remember that when the Conservatives first regained power, throughout that election they were the ones who everyone else was reacting to.

As long as Ignatieff does not commit some horrific gaffe, if the Liberals remain scandal-free throughout the election, and if they do these three things, then they might be able to finally topple Harper. If they let Harper set the tone by spending all of their time reacting to whichever hateful rhetoric he spews, then Harper will have earned himself another minority, because thankfully Harper is not good enough to be able to gain a majority, and never will be. Canada has seen his leadership abilities, and if there was ever a time when he could possibly gain a majority, it should be now, as Canada is doing quite well, comparatively-speaking. Except his polling numbers always fall short of being strong enough to gain a majority. Canada knows Harper. They just don't like him enough to give him what he wants most, namely a majority government.

[Noroldis]

...Canada has a government?

According to the exposure to Canada through American media, I'm convinced there's nothing but mounties, maple syrup, and hockey in that northern wasteland.

We've got beavers and Inuits, too. :thumbsup:

More seriously, I hope we'll finally rid ourselves of Harper. Two billions blown for a few useless international summit days, tens of bilion wasted on a small herd of flying white elephants (also called F-35s), even more billions spent on corporate welfare tax credits for corporations... And Harper's team intends to tout his government's "economic accomplishments"! Yeah, right.

It's really depressing that polls give the Conservatives a sizeable advance over the Liberals, and that pundits are discussing not whether Harper will manage to retain power, but if he'll finally get the majority he's wanted for years now. :frown5:

[kairparavel]

We've got beavers and Inuits, too. :thumbsup:

More seriously, I hope we'll finally rid ourselves of Harper. Two billions blown for a few useless international summit days, tens of bilion wasted on a small herd of flying white elephants (also called F-35s), even more billions spent on corporate welfare tax credits for corporations... And Harper's team intends to tout his government's "economic accomplishments"! Yeah, right.

It's really depressing that polls give the Conservatives a sizeable advance over the Liberals, and that pundits are discussing not whether Harper will manage to retain power, but if he'll finally get the majority he's wanted for years now. :frown5:

The Liberals have fucked themselves over so much and it pains me. They have never rebounded from their sponsorship shenanigans nor found a real and true leader. Maybe Iggy has the goods but I haven't really been paying too much attention, living outside the country as long as I have. I bet Paul Martin or more likely old crookedmouth are looking pretty good nowadays...If only we could elect the ghost of PET. He'd show whatfor. <sigh>

[kairparavel]

Well if Harper does not get a majority (which is most likely), then his tenure as leader of the Conservatives and/or PM will likely be over. He basically needs a majority at this point or he will have a fight on his hands within his own party over his inability to win one. As for Layton, regardless, this is his last election, as is likely with Duceppe. The Greens simply haven't accomplished much of anything under May's leadership, so if they don't get themselves at least a seat in the House of Commons this time around, expect her to be punted, as well. I would say that the only person who should feel reasonably safe would be Ignatieff, because the Liberals have to realise that this carousel of leaders these last few years has to stop. If he loses, however, I have a feeling that his job will be up for grabs as well, regardless of any sensibility within the Liberal ranks.

For the Liberals to regain power (because, let's face it, they're the only real alternative to Harper), they really need to hammer home the real reason why this government was toppled (i.e. it was found to be in contempt of Parliament), rather than how the Conservatives are trying to spin it as an opportunistic attempt at stealing power over an otherwise-reasonably thought out budget (which it isn't, as it includes several self-serving additions clearly aimed at sucking up to battleground ridings). They also need to keep bringing up the fact that the Conservatives are hypocrites when it comes to their primary sling against the Liberals, that they are a 'reckless coalition', because Harper was quick and willing to do the exact same thing the last time they were on the other side of a minority government. Finally, they need to continuously set the tone, because I remember that when the Conservatives first regained power, throughout that election they were the ones who everyone else was reacting to.

As long as Ignatieff does not commit some horrific gaffe, if the Liberals remain scandal-free throughout the election, and if they do these three things, then they might be able to finally topple Harper. If they let Harper set the tone by spending all of their time reacting to whichever hateful rhetoric he spews, then Harper will have earned himself another minority, because thankfully Harper is not good enough to be able to gain a majority, and never will be. Canada has seen his leadership abilities, and if there was ever a time when he could possibly gain a majority, it should be now, as Canada is doing quite well, comparatively-speaking. Except his polling numbers always fall short of being strong enough to gain a majority. Canada knows Harper. They just don't like him enough to give him what he wants most, namely a majority government.

Your post is spot on. I just hope all of Canada is as reasonable and logical. Harper cannot be given the keys to the country. He just simply cannot be trusted.

[Shryke]

In the meantime, Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff is already being a moron and "ruling out" a coalition, which of course would be utterly without precedent among parliamentary democracies on the Westminster model. Or so Stephen Harper would have us believe with his endless fearmongering about some coalition with "separatists" and/or "socialists".

That fearmongering was highly effective though. Which is the issue. It's not Ignatieff being an idiot, it's the canadian public being idiots about how a parliamentary system works.

They will vehemently deny a coalition and then very likely try to form one anyway post-election if they can.

And I bet you Ignatieff is gone unless the Liberals make some real gains this election.

The Liberals have fucked themselves over so much and it pains me. They have never rebounded from their sponsorship shenanigans nor found a real and true leader. Maybe Iggy has the goods but I haven't really been paying too much attention, living outside the country as long as I have. I bet Paul Martin or more likely old crookedmouth are looking pretty good nowadays...If only we could elect the ghost of PET. He'd show whatfor. <sigh>

We'll see on Ignatieff. I have little faith in his ability to pull in votes. The sponsorship scandal is just ridiculous in how piddly it was compared to how much damage it did to the Liberals. And of course, some well time "Investigations" that mysteriously vanished post-election is a big part of what toppled Martin's government.

Meanwhile, the Conservatives In-and-Out scandal is way more money and dirty as fuck but gets no coverage or traction in the media. And the election has ended the current push towards investigating that in parliament.

[Demonblade]

I also do not see the problem with Ignatieff stating that he is not willing to be a part of a coalition because, well, he wants to win a majority, which is possible but likely not probable. Publicly stating that he might be open to a coalition before there is even a need for one tells the country that even the Liberals don't believe that they can win a majority, and Harper will pounce on that, as well. No, the best course is to keep Harper on the defensive by continuously pressing the point that Harper's government was found to be in contempt of Parliament. Even entertaining the notion of a possible coalition just plays into Harper's hands.

[Noroldis]

The Liberals have fucked themselves over so much and it pains me. They have never rebounded from their sponsorship shenanigans nor found a real and true leader. Maybe Iggy has the goods but I haven't really been paying too much attention, living outside the country as long as I have. I bet Paul Martin or more likely old crookedmouth are looking pretty good nowadays...If only we could elect the ghost of PET. He'd show whatfor. <sigh>

Yeah, Martin is looking pretty to me right now in comparison to Harper. As for PET, well, his son Justin is now a MP. If this election does end up with the Liberals losing seats and Ignatieff his position, Trudeau Jr. might consider making a bid for party leadership. After all, if a black man can run for President of the US after just one Senate term, there's no reason the son of a former Canadian Prime Minister couldn't run for party leader after the equivalent of just one term as a MP, right? ;)

[snake]

I would like to see Justin or some other young blood take over the Liberals. Right now they lack any good leadership and unless that changes they won't get back into power anytime soon.

As a Liberal I hope they do well but I can easily see Harper winning a minority again. If so the writing could be on the wall for him.

All I know is that I'll be voting for my cousin. I guess I'll have to help with his campaign a bit too. I think that should be a bit interesting. Never done anything like that before.

ETA:

VOTE LIBERAL!!!

[TrueMetis]

We've got beavers and Inuits, too. :thumbsup:

More seriously, I hope we'll finally rid ourselves of Harper. Two billions blown for a few useless international summit days, tens of bilion wasted on a small herd of flying white elephants (also called F-35s), even more billions spent on corporate welfare tax credits for corporations... And Harper's team intends to tout his government's "economic accomplishments"! Yeah, right.

It's really depressing that polls give the Conservatives a sizeable advance over the Liberals, and that pundits are discussing not whether Harper will manage to retain power, but if he'll finally get the majority he's wanted for years now. :frown5:

The F-35's (Seriously flying elephants? They have the radar signature of a golf ball) are pretty much the only thing the Conservatives did that i agree with. On everything else there isn't a party I agree with, it's either stupid ideas or no will to actually do anything. So I guess I'll be making a point in the first ever election I can vote in by staying home and not voting.

[TrueMetis]

This thread is way too civil. You Canadians clearly don't know anything about politics. Where are the flames, ad hominem attacks, and ignorance? Sheesh.

Oh they're there every time I watch TV there some conservative attack ad on, Right now the catchphrase is something like "Ignatieff he didn't return for you." Lame by US standard though.

[snake]

I don't think we have many Canadian Conservatives on here. Most of us are in agreement that Harper has to go. The only disagreement is who we would like to see replace him. IMO, the only sensible choice is the Liberals. :)

ETA:

VOTE LIBERAL!

[Salome the Persian Witch]

"Canada's Government, Beset by Scandal, Collapses".

Indeed.

Yeah... and according to huffingtonpost, our government has been "toppled". It's amazing how people can't understand parliamentary democracy. If you can't get anything done, have another election so that you can! :P

And please please please let's get rid of Harper. It does scare me that his rhetoric & tactics (like hateful attack ads and IMHO, forcing a non-confidence vote when he thinks the conservatives are polling high) are more negatively political rather than being a servant to the good of the Country. :worried:

If we could get over some voter apathy and actually get the numbers out that we used to, it could happen...

*getting off the soapbox*

[Salome the Persian Witch]

This thread is way too civil. You Canadians clearly don't know anything about politics. Where are the flames, ad hominem attacks, and ignorance? Sheesh.

You big stupid poopy pants.

And I bet you'd even have sex outside of marriage, you hippy!

http://www.adn.com/2011/03/23/1772266/senate-panel-questions-judicial.html

:fencing:

[Salome the Persian Witch]

Well, if (as a pilot project) the prosecutions started with all those politicians hiking the appalachian trail, I might be behind it!

*accidentally trips over soapbox*

[Grayscale]

IMO, the only sensible choice is the Liberals. :)

ETA:

VOTE LIBERAL!

The Liberals? Oh yeah, since their track record is so spotless. I'd rather vote for Hitler than the stupid ass liberals. Like it or not, the economy under Harper is in far better shape than it would be with any other party. His foreign policies are insane but at least he knows how to handle the economy. The NDPs are incapable of running a province, much less the whole country. Notice how they completely screwed up Nova Scotia in such a short time. The Bloq and the Green parties are even worse than the Libs, as mind boggling as that is.

Basically we are choosing the lesser evil.

On the bright side it could be worse, we could have that lying sack of shit Obama running things.

[TrueMetis]

The Liberals? Oh yeah, since their track record is so spotless. I'd rather vote for Hitler than the stupid ass liberals. Like it or not, the economy under Harper is in far better shape than it would be with any other party. His foreign policies are insane but at least he knows how to handle the economy. The NDPs are incapable of running a province, much less the whole country. Notice how they completely screwed up Nova Scotia in such a short time. The Bloq and the Green parties are even worse than the Libs, as mind boggling as that is.

Basically we are choosing the lesser evil.

On the bright side it could be worse, we could have that lying sack of shit Obama running things.

We get it you're nuts, congratulations. Anyone who think the government had anything to do with the shape the Canadian economy is in proves that propaganda is alive an well.

[Lord O' Bones]

You know what's weird? In the US we get virtually no coverage of the Canadian government. We get more coverage of numerous other nations like the UK, France, even Australia, than we do of Canada. It's a bit strange considering that we're are neighbors. I'll be curious to see how this plays out (I bet The Economist will have some good coverage of it).

It's not that weird. The country is huge but the population is not. I think something like 95% of them live near our border. And that is still something like 11% of our population.

Not disparaging my Canadian neighbors, but giving them equality politically isn't realistic, no matter if I wish it were so.

And Australia? Really? They're as fucked up as we are or worse with only 20 something million people. Don't be fooled by the cool Aussies that post here.

[snake]

The Liberals? Oh yeah, since their track record is so spotless. I'd rather vote for Hitler than the stupid ass liberals. Like it or not, the economy under Harper is in far better shape than it would be with any other party. His foreign policies are insane but at least he knows how to handle the economy. The NDPs are incapable of running a province, much less the whole country. Notice how they completely screwed up Nova Scotia in such a short time. The Bloq and the Green parties are even worse than the Libs, as mind boggling as that is.

Basically we are choosing the lesser evil.

On the bright side it could be worse, we could have that lying sack of shit Obama running things.

Harper is just continuing policies that Chretien/Martin put in place in the early 90's. He also managed to nearly wipe out our years of debt reduction with a needless stimulus package. Still, he hasn't managed to fuck up the economy so that's a plus for him. Every other area I'd give him a minus.

VOTE LIBERAL!!!!!