So we're having an election or something

[Jaxtile]

The CRTC (the people who regulate television, radio, etc) shot them down because it's not real news.

I was eternally grateful for an independent regulator with teeth.

[Tyria]

You know, the more I read this, the more it annoys me. Do you live in NS and do you have anything actually tangible to say about this? The NDP have, if anything, been far too willing to prioritize reigning in spending and improving the fiscal outlook at the risk of pissing off various groups (e.g. Yarmouth in eliminating the Cat's subsidy). And yet I can't think of any major labour disruptions and NS doctors recently agreed to defer fee increases to "help improve the province’s financial state".

Yes, it's been a disaster, for sure...

Indeed. It's not like NS was in the greatest shape when they took over. Oh, and I think I read somewhere here that Grayscale lives on the Darkside.

...and the CRTC (the people who regulate television, radio, etc) shot them down because it's not real news.

This made me incredibly happy.

[Spaced Kelso]

I’m already tired of how the parties have resorted to mostly reactive negative attacks as their prime political weapon. Instead of focusing on how the Liberals or the Conservatives have tried to form coalition governments, which is part of our system, let’s have the leaders of the parties talk about actual issues and their ideas on those issues. While it is important to inform voters of what each party has done in the past, it draws away from attention towards the intentions of what each party will try to accomplish. Every party will try to convince you that they have your interests in mind the most, without even saying what those interests are.

Hopefully we’ll get a better look at what issues the parties want to deal with in the weeks leading up to the election.

[Tyrellius]

Just popping in to say,that thanks to this board whenever I read "Parties" or/and " Elections", I mentally read "Panties" and "Erections".

Thanks Min, Mash & Wiggum. :tantrum:

[TrueMetis]

I'm a lot more concerned with the F-35s' money signature than their radar one. And the fact is that according to the Parliamentary Budget Office, those 65 planes - roughly half the number of our current fighter force of F-18s, by the way - are going to cost us about 30 billions. Meanwhile,our Department of Defense was lying through its teeth like Harper being hopelessly optmistic by claiming they would cost some 17 billions. If the F-35s were made up of $100 dollar bills, IMO they'd really be elephant-sized.

Saying there are less F-35's is pointless because the F-18's are so old most of them are grounded at any one time. As for the cost I'm actually liking those numbers 30 billion over 30 years, as for the original cost that wasn't being hopelessly optimistic as that's the price Lockheed Martin gave. Of course prices are subject to change but considering how close the F-35 is to production cost will likely decrease not increase.

We should have had held a competition between the F-35 and other possible candidates like the Eurofighter to determine which one best suited us (and encourage lower bidding by the manufacturers), but instead that corrupt bastard Harper went ahead and gave a no-bid contract to Lockheed Martin, in the finest tradition of Bush the Lesser awarding juicy no-bid contracts to Republican-affiliated corporations after the invasion of Irak. I don't know about you, but to me that's not our tax dollars being well-spent, or even honestly spent.

Okay let's begin with the fact that the Eurofighter is almost as expensive as the F-35, then let's toss in that there was a lot of looking into which plane was best for us and the F-35 was chosen, that because the Euro-fighter is built were it is parts will be much more expensive, and that no Canadian company will see any benefit from it, while plenty of Canadians build parts for Lockhead Martin. I suppose you could argue the second point but what other possible advantage would the Eurofighter giver? How would sending our money to Europe be better spent than sending it to the US with some return. (On the order of at least 5-10 billion)

The F-35 has a smaller radar signature than the Eurofighter that alone puts it ahead in an era were the first plane to be spotted loses. In the end though this is likely to be the last planes we ever buy with unmanned drones soon replacing them.

[Aemon Stark]

And in what respect does any of that justify foregoing a competitive bidding process?

[TrueMetis]

And in what respect does any of that justify foregoing a competitive bidding process?

You come up with a plane with the capabilities of the F-35 and the benefits it brings to Canada and you may have something. The only plane that could possible contend in both performance and bring any benefit to the Canadian economy is the F-22 and they aren't selling those.

The Eurofighter is the only other plane that's an option and it brings no benefit to the Canadian economy whatsoever. All the other planes of similar capabilities are built by countries we can't buy from for political reasons.

[Lord of Oop North]

Speaking as someone who works in an industry that often bids on government contracts, I have to say that it would be pretty disastrous, financially speaking, if those same contracts were to be simply awarded to one company, whether they are considered the 'best' or not.

Absence competition, the price will be higher. Companies price down in order to win the bid. That's a fact.

The mere existence of a competitive bidding process would have made the F-35 cheaper.

[Jaxtile]

Why don't we build our own? Avro Arrow 2.0?

Of course they'd probably get politics in the way again...

[TrueMetis]

Why don't we build our own? Avro Arrow 2.0?

Of course they'd probably get politics in the way again...

Cost of research would far exceed the cost of the planes.

[Aemon Stark]

I am not any kind of military acquisitions expert and neither are you. The whole purpose of a competitive bid process is to obtain the best deal where the manufacturers to compete to offer the best mix of different factors. You're just repeating spin.

[TrueMetis]

I am not any kind of military acquisitions expert and neither are you. The whole purpose of a competitive bid process is to obtain the best deal where the manufacturers to compete to offer the best mix of different factors. You're just repeating spin.

The only 2 realistic options are the Eurofighter and the F-35. One sends money to Europe one gives us a partial return. A competitive bid between the two would be a joke and everyone who has been paying attention knows it. There is a reason the Canadian government put up money to help develop the F-35 in 1999. The F-35 isn't even a Harper government plan this has been in the works for a long time. And if we cancel now we'll just be in the same situation we had with the Seakings.

[Tongue Stuck to Wall]

As an expat from Ontario living in Shenzhen, China, I've been impressed by the breaking election news coverage on government TV (CCTV-9, English-language 24-hour News). Funny that it doesn't register in the US much, but it's received daily coverage over here.

[Horza]

*seriously, seriously ponders Australia*

Do Australian women like guys with American accents? (my guess is no, and it's a phenomenon that only applies in the inverse, but I just want to check).

Nah, the foreign accent rule is just about universal, you should be fine unless you're an enormous Jersey Shore frat douche and have been hiding it from us for all these years. :P

[Salome the Persian Witch]

Interestingly enough, Trisk, the banks here started bowing to conservative pressure a few years ago (the U.S. was in such a bubble with your banking ponzie schemes practices) that Canada started putting a few in effect (ie. we suddenly had 40 year mortgages with almost no $ down, and the beginnings of interest only payment on mortgages,etc.)

Oh, and just to elaborate a bit more on what I thought you were asking - we can specially order fox news up here in Canada (kinda like special ordering HBO), but I don't know anyone who does. (We do get lot of its highlights up here through other media sources, however). We do not have the equivalent in Canada.

Sun TV was a station that had put in an application to air. I believe its parent company was Fox News. We had nicknamed it "Fox News of the North", and Harper was a strong supporter of it. We currently have legislation here that news organizations are not allowed to lie. (Novel, I know.) We are of course allowed to have pundits, and opine all we want until the cows come home, but they are not allowed to misrepresent "facts". Just recently, there was new wording proposed to the CRTC (our regulators) which could be interpreted as relaxing those standards. Many believe the change was strongly supported by Harper, and was an attempt to sneak it into the regulations without anyone noticing. (Needless to say, we did).

CRTC did not reword its regulations. My understanding - they did not deny Sun TV's application, Sun TV withdrew its application. Common speculation up here is that they withdrew because this network would not be as effective as Fox News (ie. a useful propaganda tool) if they were forced to tell the truth! :D

[Noroldis]

Saying there are less F-35's is pointless because the F-18's are so old most of them are grounded at any one time.

Are there any numbers for that? And in time the same fate will happen to the F-35s, so all in all I fail to see how this is a point in their favor.

As for the cost I'm actually liking those numbers 30 billion over 30 years, as for the original cost that wasn't being hopelessly optimistic as that's the price Lockheed Martin gave.

Where is that mentioned? And if LM really did give that price, then our DoD really was deliberately lying when it publicly announced that the F-35s would cost only about $17 billions.

The F-35 has a smaller radar signature than the Eurofighter that alone puts it ahead in an era were the first plane to be spotted loses. In the end though this is likely to be the last planes we ever buy with unmanned drones soon replacing them.

Since you claim that unmanned drones will soon replace fighters, why spend so much money on F-35s in the first place? Why do we absolutely need our new, soon-to-be-replaced fighters to be fifth generation bleeding cutting edge? We're not likely to be going up against the US or Europe anytime soon, are we? Instead of the ultra-expensive F-35, we could buy a stopgap, proven fourth generation multirole fighter like the F-16 until the first fighter-equivalent drones become operational, and then spend big money on those.

According to the F-16's Wikipedia page, improved versions of it are still being produced for export customers, and it costs only about $19 millions a pop, so we could buy about eight Falcons for the price of a single F-35. True, the additional costs for maintenance and armament would probably mean fewer than eight Falcons for every one F-35, but even so for $30 billions we could certainly afford several Falcons, added costs and all, for every F-35 we currently intend to buy. Or, better yet, we buy, say, just 130 Falcons, and then we wait for the first fighter drones.

Triskele:

Excuse my ignorance, but does America's version of Fox News play pretty regularly on cable in Canada? If so, does Harper tune in to it on a regular basis?

Harper has actually had lunch with Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes at least once, so Harper can't be ignorant of Fox News or its modus operandi. I'm sure he would love Canadians to be as gullible as Fox News' target audience.

[Noroldis]

Since we're on the subject of the F-35 and its acquisition:

Tory candidate lobbied Ottawa for US fighter-jet manufacturer.

One of the Conservative candidates in the federal election was until last December one of the lobbyists for the maker of the controversial F-35 jet the Harper government picked to be Canada’s next generation of fighter planes, records show.

As senior partner at CFN Consultants, an Ottawa firm specializing in defence issues, Raymond Sturgeon lobbied the government on behalf of Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, the U.S. manufacturer of the F-35 Lightning II, the jet whose multi-billion sole-sourced price tag has been heavily criticized.

[Monday]

Have any of you tried out the CBC Vote Compass? Thoughts on it? I found it a little simplistic, but I like the idea. It kind of cuts through the rhetoric and gives you a vague idea of where the paries lie in relation to the issues you find important.

[Shryke]

I enjoyed that 4 of the parties are all grouped up in one corner and the Republiform party is off in it's distant little bottom corner.

[Kosciuszko]

So I took that for lulz, despite being American.

Apparently I'm closest to the Liberal Party of Canada? Cool I guess. Looks like I'm placed halfway between Bloc Quebecois and the Liberals.