[BOOK SPOILERS] EP101 Discussion

[Lord Godric]

Alright, thanks. Wasn't there a different actress for Cat originally? Did they go back and re-film all those scenes?

Yep. Same with Illyrio, and Daenerys. Possibly others, but those are the only two I can remember.

[Balefont]

I admit I am a little bit disappointed there was no "Tell Khal Drogo he has given me the wind." But I can totally understand for reasons of timing, flow, and the minor alterations in Dany's and Drogo's initial character traits. I guess the upside it that I'll always have my favorite version of that scene untouched and in a safe place in my mind. :)

They basically chose to place Dany way low on the security scale with no little flares of her inner fire showing through in the very beginning. I think this accentuates her growth in strength as a character from beginning to end.

[AzureOwl]

Sansa looks way too old to be playing a 13 year old.

You do realize that she's 15 in real life. How old did you think she looked, 20?

3. Sansa: Age 15. Sansa Stark, in the books, is 11; on the show she's 13; the actress playing Sansa is clearly 15.

Just to be nitpicky, the actress playing Sansa only turned 15 two months ago. At the time this episode was filmed she was 14. She’s just very, very tall.

[Josiah Rowe]

Wow...you think they could've at least thrown his name out there. Maybe a throwaway line from Robb like "A Greyjoy has no say in the fate of direwolves - remember you're my father's ward, not another of his sons" (well...something not as cheesy as that...but you get my point).

Anyway, that's the only negative that stuck out for me...no real introduction of Theon.

The quote on Theon's page in HBO's viewer's guide suggests that we'll have a better introduction of Theon soon, in conversation with Tyrion Lannister. Theon's important to the story later on, but at this point it's much more important to establish the Stark and Lannister family members for new viewers.

Speaking of which, did you catch the ADR exchange between Arya and Sansa about Cersei and Jamie being twins? That was so obviously a late addition, for the benefit of confused audience members!

[Xenophon]

Wow...you think they could've at least thrown his name out there. Maybe a throwaway line from Robb like "A Greyjoy has no say in the fate of direwolves - remember you're my father's ward, not another of his sons" (well...something not as cheesy as that...but you get my point).

Anyway, that's the only negative that stuck out for me...no real introduction of Theon.

No, that would have been too much, I think. There were already so many characters to keep track of, the last thing we needed was another guy who's living with the Starks, but not really a member of the family.

The quote on [url=http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/#!/guide/houses/greyjoy/theon-greyjoy/]

Speaking of which, did you catch the ADR exchange between Arya and Sansa about Cersei and Jamie being twins? That was so obviously a late addition, for the benefit of confused audience members!

Yes, and I would have appreciated more additions like that! Having a character narrate the arrival of people that other characters don't know is a great theatrical trick.

[Ser Greguh]

I have to say, it is a bit weird to revisit the discussions of the minutae of Dany and Drogo's marriage, these are discussions that have been had for more than a decade, and with all the new interpretations and the new scene we have to go over, it's picked the scab on some old wounds. By modern consensus the sex between the two is no doubt rape, but this isn't a modern story, and the fact that the modern consensus shapes our interpretation of the relationship doesn't necessarily make the motivations of the characters involved analogous to how we view rape from that same modern context. Drogo's intent is not to rape Dany so much as he simply would not understand the concept that sex with his new bride isn't something he can partake of whenever he wants. The failing is more cultural than personal, and as the series progresses we see the interesting ways in which their relationship is renegotiated.

I loved it. I loved the show unconditionally and don't have the heart to nitpick for now. There are things I think could have been better, there are lines I think I would change, but my god. They really did it, and it is not any of the things I feared it might become. I feel a bit like someone who knew Jesus before he became so damn important. This is awesome, in the root, awe-some sense of the word.

[luckyschmuck38]

I really don't think the Drogo/Danny scene was to far off. Without the inner monologue of Danny it's hard to convey the tenderness Drogo shows her. After watching the way he caresses her hair, wipes the tear from her cheek, and gently runs his hand over her shoulder it really takes away from the whole rape aspect of the scene. Obviously Danny is upset and scared, but I think they did the bet they could.

[Demonblade]

I thought it was OK. Some parts were great, but everything seems so rushed, which is strange, given that we're down one episode and there's so much more left in the book. We're at, like page 50 right about now, right? I wonder how much will be omitted, or shall I say how much more will be omitted. Is this season supposed to encompass the entire first book? I dunno, as I haven't checked anything out on this series.

Don't get me wrong, I still loved it. The gf (who hasn't read the series, btw) said that the show is kinda creepy. I guess one can get that impression out of what they've shown so far (i.e. the Others, Ned beheading the deserter, oh and the twin incest/tossing kid off the ledge), but the reaction was a tad surprising.

I am glad that they included the prologue, which tells me that they potentially could be into it till the end, whenever that is.

[axels15]

did anyone else think that Jon was a bit cold in his scenes with Bran? I dunno, I expected him to be a little more caring with Bran, but that might just have been me. I liked the resentment he showed when talking with Benjen though.

My other gripe- not enough of the direwolves. I hope their role is boosted in the coming episodes.

Lastly, Coster-Waldau and Peter Dinklage were unbelievable, loved them!

[Josiah Rowe]

My other gripe- not enough of the direwolves. I hope their role is boosted in the coming episodes.

The impression I get from the interviews is that the dogs they used for the direwolves (which were bred to look like wolves) are very difficult to train, and that they wanted to use them in more scenes but getting them to "act" was a real challenge. :( So we won't get as much direwolf action as we had in the books, alas. :frown5:

[The Prophet]

did anyone else think that Jon was a bit cold in his scenes with Bran? I dunno, I expected him to be a little more caring with Bran, but that might just have been me. I liked the resentment he showed when talking with Benjen though.

My other gripe- not enough of the direwolves. I hope their role is boosted in the coming episodes.

Lastly, Coster-Waldau and Peter Dinklage were unbelievable, loved them!

I thought the direwolves were still a bit small in that last scene. Doesn't summer help fight off the assassin that comes for bran before everyone leaves winterfell? seems like he would have been a little bigger at that point.

[Ser Greguh]

did anyone else think that Jon was a bit cold in his scenes with Bran? I dunno, I expected him to be a little more caring with Bran, but that might just have been me. I liked the resentment he showed when talking with Benjen though.

I liked the scene in the training yard when Bran is practicing archery; Jon gives the psychological advice, while Robb gives the practical. I think you're referring to the beheading, though, and Jon's approval of Bran's reaction to me is actually the warmest aspect of what is otherwise a somber and gravity-filled scene.

[Josiah Rowe]

I thought the direwolves were still a bit small in that last scene. Doesn't summer help fight off the assassin that comes for bran before everyone leaves winterfell? seems like he would have been a little bigger at that point.

The assassin shows up a little while after the royal party leaves, so Summer will have a bit of time to grow into those ears. :)

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

I thought the direwolves were still a bit small in that last scene. Doesn't summer help fight off the assassin that comes for bran before everyone leaves winterfell? seems like he would have been a little bigger at that point.

Been a long time since I last read GoT, but I am pretty sure the assassin attacks after everyone is well away from Winterfel.

[Trebla]

On Theon's introduction:

Next week should feature a scene with Tyrion and Theon where Tyrion mocks him for being a "Stark lackey" and wonders aloud what Balon Greyjoy would say. So I think we'll get an intro and a little background

Speaking of intros, I liked the scene at Winterfell at Cat and Maester Lewin prepare for the royal arrival. Making sure that they have plenty of candles and ale was a nice touch.

[ludba2002]

Oh boy...

sarcasm doesn't come across on the interwebs, does it?

[Wolfheart]

Did anyone see the face on the heart tree in Winterfells godswoods? I hadn't noticed it. And I was watching it in HD on a plasma. I think I spent the entire scene looking for it.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

Overall loved it. Really great atmosphere... a few nitpicks is all I have:

1. Although the woman playing Cat is a fine actress who shares good chemistry with Sean Bean, she seems very old for Ms. Stark. Cat is supposed to be in her mid-30s. Also, not to be mean, but she's not pretty enough.

2. Something that struck me as strange - the Kingsguard was never mentioned, and although Jaime was wearing a white cloak, his membership in said Kingsguard never came up. Nor did anyone call him Kingslayer. I'm sure that'll just come in a later episode - but it's such an important part of his character that I felt like it should at least be shown. Also, to nitpick further, Jaime was wearing the same armor as the other knights, presumably Kingsguard, who should be wearing white armor.

3. I didn't mind the new portrayal of the Others, but I thought it was strange for them to take a believable scene from the books and make it stretch credulity. After all, Will survived initially in the book because he was hiding in a tree - the Others presumably didn't see him (while the deserter presumably escaped with the garrons). Just a bit unbelievable that the Others kill his buddies, stand and stare at him, and then let him live.

Can't wait for next week.

[xerobull]

Did anyone see the face on the heart tree in Winterfells godswoods? I hadn't noticed it. And I was watching it in HD on a plasma. I think I spent the entire scene looking for it.

It was there. Rather understated and simple.

[The Anti-Targ]

I haven't seen the show, obviously, but regardless of how the scene plays out calling the Dany/Drogo consummation rape is rather odd. In the context of Martinworld it's a non-issue, and it certainly shouldn't be seen as detrimental to their future relationship.

Take a much later marriage (won't mention the who here given I presume we're only doing books spoliers for GoT??). It is absolutely expected by all, including the wife, that the marriage will be consummated even though the wife is both horrified and terrified, and forced into the marriage even more unwillingly that Dany is sold into the marriage with Drogo. And in no way, shape or form would the wife regard such a consummation as rape, and not consummating the marriage is the subject of much derision and open disappoinment, with demands for consummation being made every day. The difference between the Dany/Drogo marriage and the later one is that on Dany's part there is at least some hope, or even desire, that the marriage will eventually becoming a loving one.