[Book Spoilers] EP103 Discussion

[Lupigis]

In the Robert - Barristan scene I think I heard Robert talk about the battle of Summerhall. Is that mentioned in the books or is it new?

[Tywin's bastard]

I watched it twice, and I liked it a lot the first time - even more the second.

I have to once again disagree with those that dislike the portrayal of Cersei thus far. She isn't shown to be a master politician. Instead, we see her give some good, some bad, and some NO DUH advice to Joffrey and planting the seeds of his wicked personality. She's not a bumbling idiot, but she wasn't in the first book. Things are going well for Cersei and she is playing the part appropriately. I really liked that scene a lot.

I also have to say that I like this Jorah much more than the book version. Iain Glen looks almost exactly how I imagined him, but somehow his mannerisms and voice make him a more compelling presence than he was in my mind. I also think the two Mormont actors look convincingly like father and son :)

Speaking of the Old Bear - I loved the look of desperation he gave off when talking to Tyrion about needing more men and asking for help. It actually made me feel *really* bad for him, and reminded me how empathetic I was to his plight in the books.

I loved Rockroi's take on Robert - that's exactly what I would have said, only better. Excellent portrayal of a man who may seem to be all bluster and fun, but is haunted by age, responsibility and fear.

Everyone has been cast so well, that even if I didn't know beforehand, I would have said - hey look, there's Green and Pyp. How anyone who has read the books could mistake Selmy for Tywin is beyond me. He IS Barristan the Bold. Love it.

I also think that Dany not making Viserys walk was a good move by the writers - she didn't order it, but she approved it. I think Viserys SHOULD have reponded more strongly to her command, so to me this is more believable than the book. I also think it will make her acquiescence to the crowning have much greater impact.

Syrio was great, looking forward to seeing him take on the whole city.

Kit Harington has the most soulful eyes. Love his expressions.

Yoren was much more likable on the screen as well, and I think it's a great character adjustment.

Loved the Old Nan bit too - sorry that we won't have more of Margaret John. There was a dedication to her at the end of the episode, for those that missed it.

Bran was great - and while I try not to think the theory could be true (although I sorta like it), some part of me thinks he would be a great Bran is Evil actor.

Also, did Ned tell Arya not to stab Sansa in the book? I wondered if that was foreshadowing, but then again, I look for those things probably more than necessary in the series, cause I know that D & D are in on the details.

My only slight gripe - I think that Septa Mordane and Catelyn look way too much alike with her headdress on. They could be sisters. As an actress she is fine though, so no biggie :)

I also have to stress, once again - don't fret about names. Characters will be named when they need to be. I am a very attentive viewer and I can't even tell you how long it took me to get everyone's name in The Wire - both because of the lack of naming early on, and the number of characters. It is not natural to say everyone's name all the time, and it serves a purpose to call the attention to the character - we don't need to know who Selmy or Theon are - yet. But I bet next week we'll find out about Theon. Anyway, it all comes together, when necessary. This is one of the largest speaking casts EVER on television. Your patience will be rewarded :) I promise I won't say it again! (maybe lol).

You wrote so much I was about to that I just had to quote it and say that I agree with almost everything.

Another thing I just loved was how good the Dothraki language sounded when we got a pure conversation when Dany's handmaiden asks for other food than horse for her. Not that it hasn't sounded good before, this was just perfection.

Even though you mentioned it, I still have to repeat that Ser Jorah is awesome in the series and has a real magnetism to him, which I don't think the character in the book had. Great presence by the actor.

And overall I think the new scenes they have created are fantastic. They often display good detail about the characters (at times things that's even subtle in the books) and they get good use out of great actors. Addy is fantastic as Robert in his bedchamber and Jaime is shown with the perfect mix of arrogance and that slight hint of nobility we know from his POV's. And I don't know if I have just forgotten just how great of an actor Sean Bean can be or if this role just is his best so far to show his range? It's actually true that you can just point the camera on his face and you have a great scene, even if he doesn't say anything.

Now to wait yet another week...

[Rockroi]

In the Robert - Barristan scene I think I heard Robert talk about the battle of Summerhall. Is that mentioned in the books or is it new?

IIRC, Summerhall is mentioned several times in CoK and SoS- The Battle of Summerhall was three battles wherein Robert defeated three separate Loyalist armies before the three could link up. IIRC, Stannis' nephew, Storm, who is Robert's bastard, mentions this with great pride to Davos. Stannis also explains how the leaders of two of the three armies actually joined Robert's side and how Robert went hunting with the two men later on, and how one of the two actually died in Robert's service on the Trident.

They did not mention the swamp, though. And I was sort of surprised that it was the first time Robert had killed a man, but in retrospect, that makes sense. When else would he have had the chance?

[Bubba]

I don't know if that has been mentioned yet, but the Cersie/Joffrey scene was weird. Book Cersie would never use "fuck" or talk of sex around her children, at least that is the impression I get from her. The way Cersie looked at Joff, it's like they wanted to imply even more incest, this time mother son. Wouldn't surprise me if non-book reading viewers are thinking this. HBO Joff is a good deal smarter and is being portrayed more as a villain, which I like in a way.

Lack of direwolves is weird. And no mention of the dream yet? Going by next weeks title, we might get our first look (or mention) of the crow.

[thorny throne]

Ah, at long last, I'm home to watch.

Big props for "just so" - I mouthed the words right before they were suppose to be said, hoping I'd hear it. Because they slightly changed several of the lines before that,like Arya saying 'not really' instead of 'not truly' which irked me, and where the heck was 'and not the man I fear he has become'??

They need to introduce a man and his nickname, Littlefingers switching three מames in one episode wasn't good.

Speaking of littlefinger - this is where Cat's aging is bothersome. She looks 10 years older than little finger, at least, she's suppose to be just several years older, like 2 or 3 years, not more. A bit hard to imagine him in love with her. The actor is great though, so was Varys, exactly as I've pictured him.

The fondness between Selmey and Jaime was weird, on the other hand, not quite enough fondness between Jaime and Cersei, I would have loved to see a passionate kiss, again - missing a bit of the 'love' aspect of their relationship. Is it icky to say I rooted for them during book 1? There were times when I wanted Jaime to get the girl, even if she was his sister, LOL. Anyway, I'm invested in that relationship, and I'd like to see it evolved before they are seperated.

I thought it was interesting that Arya asked Ned how he could let Sansa marry Joffery, she didn't in the book, and it was an important question.

Nan was brilliant, and Brad saying 'I'd rather die' was one of the highlights of the episode.

[Volderon]

Ok question...why did Dany order them to stop marching? I didn't catch it...there seemed to be no point in it other than to have Viserys go ape shit.

[Xenophon]

Ok question...why did Dany order them to stop marching? I didn't catch it...there seemed to be no point in it other than to have Viserys go ape shit.

Jorah keeps telling her she needs to drink, and it's a long way between rest stops on the Dothraki Sea... ;)

I don't think it was ever explained.

[Ellroy]

The episode was quite good and I loved to see some scene of the book bringed to life. I loved Old Nan scene and the final with Syrio Forel.

Still, I think that it was the weaker episode of the series so far. Too dense, too many plots that only touches the surface of things. Especially the Cat/Eddard/LF situation. It was so brief that it sounded forced in many ways. If I never read the books, I would strongly question the timeline of events.

But mostly, I really don't like the Cersei of the TV series. She is nothing like the book. I can't see those glimpse of bitchness and madness that charachterize her so strongly from the beginning and I agree that her relationship with Jaime seems one dimensional: she allways seem to protect herself from Jaime's attention.

[iheartseverus]

Ok question...why did Dany order them to stop marching? I didn't catch it...there seemed to be no point in it other than to have Viserys go ape shit.

I just assumed she had to attend to nature's needs in private, away from the eyes of all those men. But others here have said that in the book, she wanted to walk awhile, to feel the earth between her toes or whatever. Whichever, it could have used an ounce of explanation..

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

It's not terribly clear. In the "Inside the Episode" video, D&D talk about how she's really starting to be affected by the plight of the slaves, particularly given what similarities she sees to her own life.

So whether she needs to just ground herself after watching the man be whipped, or wanted to try to find him to talk to him, that was the ultimate cause for her halt.

[Volderon]

Ok because it seemed like, "I'm going to walk and stop in a big clearing until Viserys comes through on his horse."

[Tywin's bastard]

Ok question...why did Dany order them to stop marching? I didn't catch it...there seemed to be no point in it other than to have Viserys go ape shit.

This will obviously be the third different answer you get but they are riding and talking about slaves and then she watches a slave being beaten just before she tells Jorah to command a halt. I think she's just taking ill to the concept of slavery and needs a break to get away for a little while. She's basically been a slave to Viserys all her life so she can relate and I think they brushed on this in the Behind the Episode video.

Edit: Too late. I watched the scene again before posting and I had trouble stopping. :)

[Tywin's bastard]

But mostly, I really don't like the Cersei of the TV series. She is nothing like the book. I can't see those glimpse of bitchness and madness that charachterize her so strongly from the beginning and I agree that her relationship with Jaime seems one dimensional: she allways seem to protect herself from Jaime's attention.

I don't agree that she's nothing like the book. She's often calm and collected in the first book. Even when Robert hits her so hard she falls to the ground she doesn't scream and just rises calmly and says "I'll wear this as a badge of honor". I don't really see how she's mad in that book. That starts to come when things start crumbling around her, especially after Joffrey's wedding (as much of her drive comes from being a protective mother).

[Xenophon]

On the subject of Dany dismounting, what is that forest(?) they are riding through? It looked really other-worldly. Does anyone know where that was filmed?

[oneeye]

I thought it was that the slaves were slow and tired and getting whipped so she ordered a stop to let them rest.

[iheartseverus]

On the subject of Dany dismounting, what is that forest(?) they are riding through? It looked really other-worldly. Does anyone know where that was filmed?

It seemed to me to be a forest of bamboo--no clue where they were filming that might have bamboo forests!

[denstorebog]

Still, I think that it was the weaker episode of the series so far.

Absolutely the worst ep so far, but at least it's a good sign that it's still entertaining.

Going into King's Landing simply brings such a change of location and cast that it's going to be jarring as hell, so that was to be expected. All in all though, I find myself wishing more and more that there were more episodes in this season. It could have used them. (And kinda ironic for a series that claims that seasons can last for generations..)

[Kalbear]

IIRC, It was filmed in Ireland.

[Ellroy]

I don't agree that she's nothing like the book. She's often calm and collected in the first book. Even when Robert hits her so hard she falls to the ground she doesn't scream and just rises calmly and says "I'll wear this as a badge of honor". I don't really see how she's mad in that book. That starts to come when things start crumbling around her, especially after Joffrey's wedding (as much of her drive comes from being a protective mother).

I don't know, maybe I'm just influenced by AFfC.

Yes, she used her "lady mask" untill the death of Twyn but you know from the beginning that it was just a mask. You could see glimpse of her madness when she was allowed to be honest. She is icy cold and ruthless, but not wise or considered. She is not a good player of the game of thrones. She does not plan, she improvise and follow her instinct.

About the madness: she is having an affair with her brother... is it normal? She fucks her cousin to controll/kill Robert and aborted the sons she had with Robert: again, it is not a proof of some sort of mental desease? She is not evil or degnerate... she is simply crazy. And you could never tell from the TV show.

And madness aside: what about the bitchness :laugh: ? That Cersei is not hot.

Btw, read the interview of the actress who is playing her in the Winter is Coming blog. She has a very human and down to earth view of Cersei. It is nothing like what a normal reader of the book would say of her while reading the first chapters of AGoT. It seems like she is talking of the Catelyn of the books.

[So1ar]

i thought it was a very good episode. syrio was a little goofy but i really liked him and the entire scene with arya. the music playing during this scene was really good too. i have to say i'm impressed with the score.

i'll add my voice to the others crying out for ghost. i hear they were hard to film with but we're not asking him to do cartwheels! was it too much to ask to have him walk beside jon at some point or just sitting next to him on top of the wall?

also, sansa is a huge bitch for shoving ned's gift right in his face.

Something I just thought of. Ned tells Bran that he was born during the long summer. This ep says that summer has lasted 9 yrs. If Bran has been aged up to 10 yrs old is that accurate? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

i learned this from the simpsons. a wizard did it.