[Book Spoilers] EP103 Discussion

[L’Age d’or]

For realz?

Lol you made me doubtful so I just double checked it, yes she did fight left handed.

[unJon]

LOL, now I have to re-watch. Thanks.

[Eponine]

I didn't feel that the whole was more than the sum of it's parts. There weren't many things that I disliked on their own, but after it was over, I felt unsatisfied, and not in the "I can't wait for next week" way.

What does lessen my enjoyment is that I don't care for Jon and I'm starting to dislike Dany. I don't care for Jon in the books either, it is known, so that's pretty much the same. I was neutral toward Dany in the books. I didn't find her story all that interesting and much preferred the political intrigue in KL. Now I feel like I inwardly groan every time I see her on screen. I like her supporting characters - Jorah, Viserys, Irri... but she and Drogo are just blah and unreal to me. I was relieved beyond belief that they didn't change things so she'd start lecturing the Dothraki about the mistreatment of the slaves - I was nervous when she stopped the horse that she was going to say something all modern heroine about them.

Robert continues to be fantastic.

I don't mind most of the added scenes in principle, but they feel like they last so much longer than the original scenes and give the characters much longer lines. I think that they could be trimmed down while still conveying the same information, and thereby giving the pivotal scenes more time. Littlefinger seemed a bit rushed. I've been fine with the additions that consist of just a few extra lines. The one I did like was Cersei/Joffrey because you can really see how she's clever and broken at the same time and he's become a more complete character whereas in the books I saw him as more of a stock villain.

It breaks my heart that Renly isn't more handsome and more fantastic. He's one of my favorite characters and I'm not feeling him on the show.

I didn't recognize Barriston because of how friendly he was toward Jaime, and in the books, he despises Jaime as an oathbreaker.

[L’Age d’or]

LOL, now I have to re-watch. Thanks.

Being left-handed myself and Arya my favorite female character in the books, I'm glad you were wrong :D

[L’Age d’or]

I didn't feel that the whole was more than the sum of it's parts. There weren't many things that I disliked on their own, but after it was over, I felt unsatisfied, and not in the "I can't wait for next week" way.

What does lessen my enjoyment is that I don't care for Jon and I'm starting to dislike Dany. I don't care for Jon in the books either, it is known, so that's pretty much the same. I was neutral toward Dany in the books. I didn't find her story all that interesting

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!

[Ayx]

They did show Renly as having...certain mannerisms.

Hey cyrano, would you mind elaborating on this? I guess my gaydar is not very finely-tuned. I didn't pick up on anything out of the ordinary there.

Doh, Renly plays for the other team? I got a little bit of that vibe from Knight of Flowers, but Renly always struck me as a pimp type. GRRM would not imply the two of these guys... I mean?! That would kind of suck

[TrueMetis]

Doh, Renly plays for the other team? I got a little bit of that vibe from Knight of Flowers, but Renly always struck me as a pimp type. GRRM would not imply the two of these guys... I mean?! That would kind of suck

You've missed quite a lot from the books man. Don't feel bad I did to until I came to this board.

[L’Age d’or]

Doh, Renly plays for the other team? I got a little bit of that vibe from Knight of Flowers, but Renly always struck me as a pimp type. GRRM would not imply the two of these guys... I mean?! That would kind of suck

THE RAINBOW guard? rings any bells? :laugh:

[HokieStone]

What is it with this show and refusing to call some of the important characters by name. First Theon, and now Ser Barristan get to stand there and even talk...but we can't be bothered with their names?!?!

And yeah, let me pile on to the "Where's Ghost?" crowd. These dogs were such malcontents that they couldn't even be trained to sit in the courtyard while Jon is training?

[Ayx]

Cat's faith in Littlefinger seemed pretty enthusiastic. Whoopsie.

Littlefinger is so friend-zoned by Cat. I like it how Cat is shown that she's not beyond leading him on a little bit, if it aids her in some way.

[Ayx]

I really want to enjoy the series but the lack of subtlety really irks me, most notably the back and forth between Ned and Jamie when they first arrive in the city. I guess you can't help the need for exposition, but it still feels awkward. Also why did they go so far out of their way to make Robert seem like such a dick?

Yea I feel bad for Robert. He always struck me as kind of a character similar to modern day retired professional boxers, which sacrificed so much in their professional days, to finally let it go and enjoy life after retirement.

Example

[L’Age d’or]

I really want to enjoy the series but the lack of subtlety really irks me, most notably the back and forth between Ned and Jamie when they first arrive in the city. I guess you can't help the need for exposition, but it still feels awkward. Also why did they go so far out of their way to make Robert seem like such a dick?

I have to disagree on them trying to show Robert as a dickhead. Robert IS a drunkard who does not give a shit about the kingdom. In that scene he was true to type (drunkard bitter king) and true to life- a bitter drunk always picks on those who are weaker than him, so a drunk king is even a greater dickhead. I donno about you but I always saw Robert that way and loved him because he always insulted Lannisters publicly and none of them was immune to his tongue lashing.

[Ayx]

Ok because it seemed like, "I'm going to walk and stop in a big clearing until Viserys comes through on his horse."

I agree this scene was the only one that confused me in the whole episode. Both Dany stopping and walking away, and then Viserys appearing out of nowhere with "Do you want to wake the dragon" line came out of nowhere.

The whole idea of the scene would have been handled better, not sure how, but it seemed characters acted without motivation in that scene.

[L’Age d’or]

This will obviously be the third different answer you get but they are riding and talking about slaves and then she watches a slave being beaten just before she tells Jorah to command a halt. I think she's just taking ill to the concept of slavery and needs a break to get away for a little while. She's basically been a slave to Viserys all her life so she can relate and I think they brushed on this in the Behind the Episode video.

Edit: Too late. I watched the scene again before posting and I had trouble stopping. :)

I always thought she felt ill after watching the slave being lashed since her physical tolerance was shrinking due to pregnancy. Have I been over-interpreting this? :rolleyes:

[smegma]

I totally got why Dany stopped - she wanted to rest the slaves. But her wandering into the willow grass/trees was a bit unclear. Seemed like the director knew what he had in mind, but it wasn't totally conveyed why she walks around. It served its purpose though, and I liked the confrontation.

[Bronn Stone]

And yeah, let me pile on to the "Where's Ghost?" crowd. These dogs were such malcontents that they couldn't even be trained to sit in the courtyard while Jon is training?

The more I think about it, the more I think that the suggestion previously mentioned in this thread is the truth. Mayhaps they had an all-white puppy and a bigger dog, but couldn't find a medium sized one. If the choice was to use a dog that isn't really white or to leave Ghost out for a few episodes, I'd definitely have gone with the latter.

[brook]

Syrio! That scene was cheesy as hell and I loved it. Then Ned's face as Arya was 'killed' for the last time gave me shivers.

On a superficial note I will be most upset if we don't see lots more Rakharo :drool:

[BigFatCoward]

i'm starting to really worry. i never thought it would be as good as the books, but i hoped it would be at least as good as other HBO shows, and it just isn't. why have D&D taken some of the most quoteworthy material of all time and replaced it with stuff that george lucas would have been ashamed of? the dialogue is really really woeful and forced in places. i think they might have fucked the pooch on this one.

[Lya Lamora]

Hey cyrano, would you mind elaborating on this? I guess my gaydar is not very finely-tuned. I didn't pick up on anything out of the ordinary there.

Maybe I was reading too much into it, but there's a moment with Renly sort of in the background and he brushes back a piece of hair or something- that gesture to me seemed purposely effeminate/delicate. I think Renly has to be played fairly subtle- it's kind of subtle in the books and he's definitely not overtly effeminate. Hopefully there will be more hints in Renly's dress and mannerism as the show progresses.

[Ellroy]

I know what you mean but I'm one of the opinion that people that just call her mad and stupid are selling her too short and perhaps basing it too much on when she finally loses it. I'm not saying I'm necessarily more right than you, it's just my opinion.

I respect opinion and I really do not wanto to sound rude, but opinions cannot falsify the reality of the books. Like, you know, if I would say that Geoffrey was a nice kid with some attitude issues.

I'm not selling her short, I'm saying that her strenght was never about cunning. She has that kind of basic instinct for power. She is not that stupid. But she is not even that smart. She is short sighted and has not the common sense, the pragmatism and the patience needed to rule. She is arrogant, self centered and dissolute.

And even if she desperately wants to be like her father and seek only his approoval like a little child, she has not what it takes to be the woman she wants to be.

She does not understand human relationships and does not feel any kind of empathy to others if not for her sons. She only knows two kind of relationship: to controll and to be controlled. That's the cause of her ultimate downfall.

She does not "loose it" out of pure desperation like Cat. Yes, all the deaths do not help but at the end I think that those deaths (especially the Twyn one) only "untapped" her potential. The Cersei of AFfC is the real Cersei imho, free of the bonds that kept her in check in the first books. That's how the book present the issue especially with Tyrion POV.

And if that was what you meant by madness, how is the show not showing this? She has sex with her brother and everything else you've mentioned is things that are yet to happen, or things in the past that are revealed in what would be season 4. As for whether or not it's a mental disease, I don't think that's clear either way.

It is a mental desease: how else you would describe a girl who armed her little brother in the cradle when unseen, that fucked with her brother since they were small kids and that fucks everything that grants her power and controll if not a mentally deseased person? Cersei is a crazy and "evil scheming bitch".

It's the only complete negative charachter of the books. There is no room for redemptions with her. No shades of Grey. While if I never read the book in the TV series she would seem to me like the Lannister version of Cat.

And Lena Headey haven't read any of the books and only intends to read the scripts because she thinks that's the best way to go at it.

So, I am right to assume that the script upon wich the TV show is based, has changed the nature of Cersei's cahrachter. I don't know if that choiche will help the show or not. As it is I don't like her. Maybe things will change in the course of the series.

I do think Cersei is far more human than many give her credit for though. Her drive to do things comes for a big part from very basic human feelings (care for her children and family, feelings of rejection because she's a woman etc). She has plenty of vile sides but we humans aren't exactly the kindest race to grace the Earth.

No, I don't believe so. They are only justification that she give to herself. Many women before have suffered the same situation but have acted better. She has no feelings in the human sense: everything is animalistic for her.