[Book Spoilers] EP103 Discussion

[aimlessgun]

Robert didn't seem cruel at all in the War Stories scene...just old and bitter. He didn't sound as if he enjoyed what happened at all. I liked the camraderie between Barristan and Jamie as well.

Barristan's identity didn't confuse me in the slightest. He's wearing Kingsguard armor and he's old and distinguished looking. I guess it helps that he looks very much like I imagined ^_^

I don't get the problems people have with Cersei. It feels like they're comparing her to Book 4 Cersei instead of Book 1 Cersei?

I like the way they're going about Jaime, since they can't do the internal monologues. I'm still getting the impression of a more complex man under the jerky exterior.

I imagined Yoren being a lot uglier :D

[Tyrion Lannister]

Lots of content, lots of stuff to process and appreciate! I hope the non-readers are feeling OK! :D

After today's episode, the friend that I watch with said he was glad he was watching the series with someone who has read the books, because it would've been really hard for him to keep track of everything without me mentioning certain things along the way. And I can totally see what he's talking about; if I had not read the books, I think I'd be struggling too. I'd probably still be interested enough to watch, but I don't think I'd understand everything that was going on all the time. Hopefully those newbies who are watching by themselves aren't overwhelmed by it all.

[Sheep the Evicted]

You know it occurred to me that this episode wasn't really a single narrative but rather a collection of scenes just stuck together. It was the same way in the book of course, with separate self contained chapters, but i don't think i have ever seen it done in quite this fashion. Just like most people in this thread i thought non readers would have trouble following it and i'm not surprised critics are complaining about the pacing.

I've read all seven pages and i don't think Bran and Robb are getting the credit they deserve, IHW is a truly fantastic actor, when he said he would rather have died it gave me goosebumps. As for the war stories scene I think every single one of us had reservations when we first saw Mark Addy but at this point i don't think there is a fan of the series that isn't satisfied with his portrayal.

[Tyrion Lannister]

I've read all seven pages and i don't think Bran and Robb are getting the credit they deserve, IHW is a truly fantastic actor, when he said he would rather have died it gave me goosebumps. As for the war stories scene I think every single one of us had reservations when we first saw Mark Addy but at this point i don't think there is a fan of the series that isn't satisfied with his portrayal.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that scene; really good stuff. And I'm with you on Addy too; he's knocking Robert out of the park. The only significant casting choice I still had doubts about was Jon, but I'm warming up to him too.

[aimlessgun]

You know it occurred to me that this episode wasn't really a single narrative but rather a collection of scenes just stuck together.

Yeah I hope they don't get burned by that, I'm sure trying to craft every hour to work on its own gave them fits. Show is going to be a better experience on DVD probably.

[helloawake]

That was awesome.

They got Yoren spot on how I imagined him! Ser Barristan was great as well, so was Littlefinger. I imagined Varys a bit older but he was still suitably slimy. Is this something that they did differently from the books or have I forgotten the bit of history that Catelyn has with Varys?

Which brings me to another point, Catelyn is fantastic. I'm not a great fan of her in the books but she is awesome on the screen.

Loved Ned's comment 'War is easier than daughters', got a laugh from me.

The scene with Aria and Syrio was first class lots of subtle things going on there, the girl playing Arya does a fantastic job.

The only character that I can't quite appreciate is Jon Snow (even though he's bloody cute).

[Kalbear]

I think he was meant to represent some sort of meditteranean/italian fencing master, although it wasnt so specific in the books from what I recall.

They were actually pretty specific; Syrio was bald, nose like a hawk, with a thick Braavosian accent. The curly hair makes me think of the guy who wanted us all to paint happy little trees, but that makes me love the scenes all the more.

Question: why did Dany get off her horse and wander into...uh...somewhere? I know what it sets up - the confrontation with Viserys - but it feels like she got off her horse and wanders off for no real reason. It was a bizarrely blocked set.

I didn't like the discontinuities either; it felt very jumpy at times, going from infodump to infodump without any real reason. Just weird, especially compared to prior eps.

However. Wow, Maisie Williams is spot on perfect as Arya. I love how much of her story they've kept, and I love how great she is. I thought I'd be happy with Bean's Ned, and I have been ecstatic about Headey's Cersei (most notably BECAUSE she's not as idiotic as portrayed in AFFC), but Williams as Arya is just phenomenally great on every level. It is going to be incredible to see the death.

[Curethan]

Yeah, I forgot to mention that scene; really good stuff. And I'm with you on Addy too; he's knocking Robert out of the park. The only significant casting choice I still had doubts about was Jon, but I'm warming up to him too.

I suspect it is easier for an actor to 'get into' a character with obvious motivations and personal history. Kit really doesn't have much to work with.

Overall though, I think the acting has been great, they all work so well together. I don't know if its my fanboy imagination, but it seems the actors have connived to give distinctive accents to the southrons and northmen. Can anyone whose watched the behind the scenes stuff confirm/refute this?

[Mack Kilimaro]

They did show Renly as having...certain mannerisms. Also interesting to see how much they will be able to show, not tell.

Hey cyrano, would you mind elaborating on this? I guess my gaydar is not very finely-tuned. I didn't pick up on anything out of the ordinary there.

I noticed that they have most/all of the house icons fixed in the credits. Emilia Clarke has the dragon now and even lesser characters have theirs. Iain Glen has a bear, with others thrown here and there.

I'm sure it's been mentioned plenty, but I really love how they are working in little bits of the history. Old Nan mentioning Ser Duncan the Tall, Jaime and Barristan talking about Simon Toyne and the Kingswood Brotherhood.

Syrio looked a lot different than I imagined but that scene was perfect. It was interesting to me how they had Ned looking in on it and slowly added the real steel sound effects. Nice ominous ending without getting too cheesy.

I wonder how many non-reader viewers are thinking about what a bastard Tyrion is for sending someone to kill Bran.

Random: Casting job for Varys? Perfect.

[Kat]

Question: why did Dany get off her horse and wander into...uh...somewhere? I know what it sets up - the confrontation with Viserys - but it feels like she got off her horse and wanders off for no real reason. It was a bizarrely blocked set.

I didn't like the discontinuities either; it felt very jumpy at times, going from infodump to infodump without any real reason. Just weird, especially compared to prior eps.

I agree with both of these. I tried to think of reasons for Dany getting off her horse and got: she's tired of riding, she's got morning sickness and is feeling queasy, or she needs to pee. The second of those would make the most sense, but saying so would have messed up her next scene, I guess. Or was that scene before? I forget. <_<

And I like the decision to not just show Cersei as crazy/irrational/cunning only in a sexual way. For one thing, like Ser Greguh said, telling her son to be less immature and that he can't just invade the North at his whim is not exactly PhD material. Also, I always thought that her character and irrationality-- particular with regard to what she starts doing in AFFC-- was part of a long, slow descent into ineptitude due to losing control. She doesn't play as well with her back against the wall, and only starts to lose it when she's no longer winning the game of thrones, particularly after she loses Joffrey.

[Chirios]

I loved the scene with Robert, Jaime and Barristan. You see how much Jaime respects the Bold from all the looks and his body language. Also:

"They never tell you how they all shit themselves. They never put that part in the songs."

"Stupid boy... He could've lingered on the edge of the battle with the smart boys and today his wife'd be making him miserable, his sons would be ingrates, and he'd be waking up three times a night to piss into a bowl, WINE!"

"Now... I'm surrounded by Lannisters. Every time I close my eyes I see their blonde hair and their smug, satisfied faces."

"He said the same thing he'd been saying for hours. Burn them all."

To quote a blogger; "This isn't a brother punishing his sister... this is a Khalasar crossing the Dothraki Sea, and that means egotistical little punks get choked with whips."

Seeing Jon train Pip and Grenn was good as well. Jon remains one of my favourite characters. He's fundamentally a good person, even if he is a prick sometimes.

Tyrion is probably the best acted character. Dinklage is having so much fun saying the lines and chewing the scenery, it's great.

"You're too few to be an army, and aside from Yoren here you're not funny enough to be Jesters."

Baelish seemed... off to me. The bit where he took Ned to the brothel came off wrong, the joke wasn't there, it wasn't delivered properly. This is a situation where the book really shouldn't have been changed.

But apart from that, a solid episode.

[Iotun]

Hi there! First time poster here, I just literally found out they were making a GoT show this weekend, and have just finished watching the first 2 episodes. Still haven't watched the 3rd but I'm getting around to it!

I just wanted to comment about Cercei, I think the way she is being portrayed in the show is much fitting in my opinion, in that it gives her a much stronger and more believable arc - she starts getting more paranoid after Joffrey is killed. It also fits in more with the overall theme of how power corrupts the people who get it, and magnifies their weaknesses in their desire to keep it, as she is, effectively, queen at the time of her greatest paranoia. I think their depiction makes the character much more 'grey' and more developed, and also much more tragic.

Maybe its also because I actually really like her as a character - I don't like the hate she seems to be getting by so many fans, and also did not like the way she was treated by GRRM in book 4 (but then again I disliked so much of that book in general...). Cercei is such a tragic character in my opinion - her mother dies and she grows up in the most powerful family in the realm, but has to be held back by her sex, is married off to a man who doesn't love her or care for her or respect her (very visibly so), is constantly shamed by him, is essentially accused of crimes she did not commit, which eventually leads to war, and is effectively willing to do anything to protect her children, rather than for her own personal power. Compare her to Ned - is his pride and honor and conservative faith in Robert so praiseworthy when they lead the realm to war?

[Ran]

Hah, I just thought they were trying to come up with a lame excuse so people question his motives, to foreshadow Jorah's spying. Was the King's Guard guy Robert was talking to Barristan? I thought it must have been, but I always picture Barristan to look more like Gandalf or Dumbledore. Long white hair, massive white beard.

I always imagined him with a beard too--is that in the books? Been so long since I've read them!But yeah, I was like "Who is this?!" for a while and then decided it must be Barristan.

Nope. The beard is something he gets later. It's a plot point -- Jorah finally recognizes him through the beard. I'd imagine that Barristan Selmy is the very model of what a gently-born knight of his age should look like, with a neat appearance. Probably his hair should be somewhat longer, but the show has tended to shorten people's hair anyways.

israfael,

Miltos has, in fact, studied fencing. And before the show started, he trained with the legendary William Hobbs (choreographer of Rob Roy, among other things) to help develop the style.

Re: Cersei, it's quite clear the way that Tywin goes on that some of the stupid decisions made in the aftermath of the coup were due to Cersei. It's also very clear in the next book that Cersei is not great at ruling. She likes to think she is, but she isn't. I suspect the show has greatly beefed up her abilities now, only to push the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" line much harder to explain her downfall.

Not a single member of Cersei's family actually think she knows what she's doing, really. Tywin, Tyrion, and Kevan are all highly dubious. Jaime ... Jaime isn't a great hand himself, but once the caul is off his eyes, he's pretty clear on it too.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

They were actually pretty specific; Syrio was bald, nose like a hawk, with a thick Braavosian accent. The curly hair makes me think of the guy who wanted us all to paint happy little trees, but that makes me love the scenes all the more.

Question: why did Dany get off her horse and wander into...uh...somewhere? I know what it sets up - the confrontation with Viserys - but it feels like she got off her horse and wanders off for no real reason. It was a bizarrely blocked set.

I didn't like the discontinuities either; it felt very jumpy at times, going from infodump to infodump without any real reason. Just weird, especially compared to prior eps.

However. Wow, Maisie Williams is spot on perfect as Arya. I love how much of her story they've kept, and I love how great she is. I thought I'd be happy with Bean's Ned, and I have been ecstatic about Headey's Cersei (most notably BECAUSE she's not as idiotic as portrayed in AFFC), but Williams as Arya is just phenomenally great on every level. It is going to be incredible to see the death.

For whatever reason I thought Dany was going to apoligize to the dude one othe Dothraki just hit over the head a few times.

[Spaßvogel]

Off the top of my head stuff:

Tyrion getting Noye's stuff...good character development for both Tyrion and Jon.

Cat's faith in Littlefinger seemed pretty enthusiastic. Whoopsie.

Sansa already being distanced from her father.

Arya awesome.

Robert picking on Lancel as setup.

Selmy appearance = awesome (kingsguard Armor, firmly ID'd now)

Syrio worked fine.

No wolves!

No dream for Bran.

Old Nan awesome.

Renly was pretty fabulous.

Ned gets a kiss goodbye at least.

[Ran]

In the book, Dany rides off ... and then decides to walk at one point, to feel the soil beneath her feet. Here, I sort of got the sense that after the slave is being whipped, she calls the halt in part to give the people on foot a chance to rest. But her dismounting, I don't know, probably similar reasons as in the book -- wants to feel the ground beneath her feet.

[silkymoonshine]

Minor error: in the beginning of the episode, Ned tells Arya she was born in the summer and that is all she's ever know. Near the end, Master Aemon says the current summer has lasted almost 9 years (and Arya clearly is older than that).

Loved Ser Barristan, the old bear, Syrio and Varys. Littlefinger was a bit of a let down.

The scene in the Littlefinger featurette where he meets Sansa is perfect, so I'm not worried yet.

I didn't love the Ned/Arya conversation, it just felt a bit rushed and not as emotional as it should have been. Loved Cersei and Joffrey's, however. I really like Lena Headey's Cersei, even if she's very different from book!Cersei.

The scene where Tyrion tells Jon why the other boys hate him was awkward. Couldn't he have waited until they were alone? This is the first episode that I liked Dinklage's Tyrion, hopefully he'll only get better from now on.

This can't be said enough: Mark Addy is brilliant as Robert. He's stealing the show, as far as I am concerned. Too bad we won't have him for long. NCW wasn't as good as Jaime as he was in the other two episodes, not enough contempt for Robert nor Ned and I agree with the posted who said that the actor isn't selling the Cersei/Jaime love.

[The hairy bear]

One thing I didn't like from Robert's scene is that I have the feeling Barristan should really despise Jaime, for betraying his vows and killing Aerys. Jaime embodies everything a man like Ser Barristan would hate. But their interaction recalling the fight against the Brotherhood suggested otherwise. It felt odd to me.

Syrio was bald, nose like a hawk, with a thick Braavosian accent. The curly hair makes me think of the guy who wanted us all to paint happy little trees, but that makes me love the scenes all the more.

Perhaps they did this as an homage to the great swordsman Iñigo Montoya. The looks are remarkably similar. My name is Syrio Forel, you killed my father, prepare to die!

[reiver]

Barristan's identity didn't confuse me in the slightest. He's wearing Kingsguard armor and he's old and distinguished looking. I guess it helps that he looks very much like I imagined ^_^

Has the series even explained or introed the concept of the kingsguard yet? I mean i suppose it isn't vital in the scheme of things but i'm not getting the "sacred oath" thing from them that's really the root of the Jamie disdain. As someone else said it seems as much about Jamie stabbing him in the back (the way it's been said makes it sound literally rather than figuratively) as the dishonouring of a sworn duty.

The Barristan/Jamie interaction seemed strange to me as well. Maybe it will be contrasted later with Barristan's disdain for who he is rather than recollections of who he was but, without having read the books, i would have thought their relationship to be a fond one.

[GoTreviews]

Out-maneuvering Ned is like out-muscling Old Nan.

Fantastic line :)

Loved the episode overall, even if I was dissapointed by their Syrio (but I'm apparently the only one, so...). I like that we get to see Tyrion pissing off the Wall, that's nice. I do agree with what's been said about Robert: talking about war stories, maybe he could enjoy them a bit more... Despite that, I still think Mark Addy is doing an incredible job, his Robert is awesome.

Speaking of awesome, I'm a total fan of NCW: his Jaime is incredible. Loved the mutual respect with Barristan (a friend, reader, thought that guy was Tywin... so maybe this scene can be confusing to many people). Littlefinger and Varys were also great.

Ah well, great episode anyway. Anyone else felt like "ahah, you're gonna look so miserable once you're shaved" when Pyrcelle poped on screen ? :D