Red Tiger Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I don't think the likes of Yronwood, Hightower, Royce, Crakehal, and the likes are lesser houses. Lesser houses would be webber, Clegane, Osgrey and the like. A lesser house is just a House that is not the region's Great House. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrick Eddon Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 The North ManedrlyBoltonIron IslandsHarlawGoodbrotherRiverlandsFreyBlackwoodThe ValeRoyceGraftonWesterlandsCrakehallLeffordThe ReachHightowerRedwyneCronwlandsBaratheon of DragonstoneRykkerStormlandsSwannCaronDorne YronwoodDayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 ^I'd put Fowler over Dayne since Arianne thought that Lord Fowler is the only lord who might be able to match the Yronwoods in Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 The North Manedrly Bolton Iron Islands Harlaw Goodbrother Riverlands Frey Blackwood The Vale Royce Grafton Westerlands Crakehall Lefford The Reach Hightower Redwyne Cronwlands Baratheon of Dragonstone Rykker Stormlands Swann Caron Dorne Yronwood Dayne ^I'd put Fowler over Dayne since Arianne thought that Lord Fowler is the only lord who might be able to match the Yronwoods in Dorne. Arianne says: You might have, but you didn't. Dayne, Dalt, Santagar . . . no, you would never dare make enemies of such Houses. Perhaps I am completely misunderstanding what she meant, but the impression that I got was that since the other two are knightly houses, Dayne probably isn't that strong, maybe she is only talking about Dayne of High Hermitage, which would make sense, but if she is referring to Dayne of Starfall then they may be quite weak for a Dornish house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 On the Yronwoods: I doubt they are that powerful, at least in terms of military strength, they may be the second most powerful house in Dorne, but how many men does the second house in a region have? The Boltons have ~4-5,000, the Manderlys thus should have maybe 6-8,000. The north as a whole really depends on who you ask, but the majority seem to accept 35-45,000, in which case the second house of the region has 1/7 to 1/11 of the total strength. The north has 1 less full lordly house, but make up for it with the Glovers, Tallharts and mountain clans, thus we would expect the Yronwoods to have no more than 1/7th of the total Dornish strength. I personally doubt Dorne has more than 25,000, it may have quite a few less than that, but using 25,000 the Yronwoods have a maximum of 3,600, which is less powerful than Frey, Bolton, and about the same as the average as the average for the five lordly members of the Lord's declarant, (18,000/5=3,6000) assuming that the Templetons, as a knightly house, cannot raise above 2,000 men. They might be fairly rich, but in terms of Military potential they are not really a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Arianne sayPerhaps I am completely misunderstanding what she meant, but the impression that I got was that since the other two are knightly houses, Dayne probably isn't that strong, maybe she is only talking about Dayne of High Hermitage, which would make sense, but if she is referring to Dayne of Starfall then they may be quite weak for a Dornish house.IIRC, the Worldbook states that the Daynes were one of the most powerful houses in Dorne before Nymeria arrived, so unless they were weakened sometime after they became Martell bannermen, than the Daynes should still be fairly powerful within Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 On the Yronwoods: I doubt they are that powerful, at least in terms of military strength, they may be the second most powerful house in Dorne, but how many men does the second house in a region have? The Boltons have ~4-5,000, the Manderlys thus should have maybe 6-8,000. The north as a whole really depends on who you ask, but the majority seem to accept 35-45,000, in which case the second house of the region has 1/7 to 1/11 of the total strength. The north has 1 less full lordly house, but make up for it with the Glovers, Tallharts and mountain clans, thus we would expect the Yronwoods to have no more than 1/7th of the total Dornish strength. I personally doubt Dorne has more than 25,000, it may have quite a few less than that, but using 25,000 the Yronwoods have a maximum of 3,600, which is less powerful than Frey, Bolton, and about the same as the average as the average for the five lordly members of the Lord's declarant, (18,000/5=3,6000) assuming that the Templetons, as a knightly house, cannot raise above 2,000 men. They might be fairly rich, but in terms of Military potential they are not really a big deal. I'm guessing that House Wyl are Vassals of the Yronwoods as well, just like the Mandwoodys would be vassals of the Fowlers. Given that the Boneway has a proper road, unlike the Princes Passm, this would give the Yronwoods and their vassals the edge over the Fowlers and theirs. I'd put the Yronwoods(and Wyls) at 4-5k, on an equal footing with the Martells. The Fowlers(and Mandwoodys) on 3-4k. The Daynes on 2k and the other 10kish spread across the remaining 9 Dornish Lordly Houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrick Eddon Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 ^I'd put Fowler over Dayne since Arianne thought that Lord Fowler is the only lord who might be able to match the Yronwoods in Dorne. Well I think she said that because the Lord Fowler ( The Old Hawk ) is a experienced leader , while the head of house Dayne is Ned Dayne a squire who is in Riverlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrick Eddon Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I'm guessing that House Wyl are Vassals of the Yronwoods as well, just like the Mandwoodys would be vassals of the Fowlers. Given that the Boneway has a proper road, unlike the Princes Passm, this would give the Yronwoods and their vassals the edge over the Fowlers and theirs. I'd put the Yronwoods(and Wyls) at 4-5k, on an equal footing with the Martells. The Fowlers(and Mandwoodys) on 3-4k. The Daynes on 2k and the other 10kish spread across the remaining 9 Dornish Lordly Houses. By that logic I would put Daynes as strong as Yronwood , Dayne have Starfall , Daynes of High Hermitage and House Blackmont . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I'm guessing that House Wyl are Vassals of the Yronwoods as well, just like the Mandwoodys would be vassals of the Fowlers. Given that the Boneway has a proper road, unlike the Princes Passm, this would give the Yronwoods and their vassals the edge over the Fowlers and theirs. I'd put the Yronwoods(and Wyls) at 4-5k, on an equal footing with the Martells. The Fowlers(and Mandwoodys) on 3-4k. The Daynes on 2k and the other 10kish spread across the remaining 9 Dornish Lordly Houses. I know the Yronwoods are "wardens/lord of the Stone Way" but I'm not sure if that gives them any actual authority, after all the Yronwood/Fowler Warden titles would have become obsolete when Dorne joined the Seven Kingdoms, I don't know if we should give the title "Lord of the Stone way" any credence, since we never hear about the roles that it entails, it may just be an empty boast like house Caron's "lord of the marches". Based on that I don't think we should assume that the Wyls are sworn to anyone except the Martells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 By that logic I would put Daynes as strong as Yronwood , Dayne have Starfall , Daynes of High Hermitage and House Blackmont . The Daynes of High Hermitage is little more than a Knightly House. We know that only the Fowlers can challenge the Yronwoods for power so that put both Houses above the Daynes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrick Eddon Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 The Daynes of High Hermitage is little more than a Knightly House. We know that only the Fowlers can challenge the Yronwoods for power so that put both Houses above the Daynes. And where is that stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 And where is that stated. An Arriane chapter. The most powerful of the Dornish lords was Anders Yronwood, the Bloodroyal, Lord of Yronwood and Warden of the Stone Way, but Arianne knew better than to look for help from the man who had fostered her brother Quentyn. No. Drey's brother Ser Deziel Dalt had once aspired to marry her, but he was much too dutiful to go against his prince. Besides, whilst the Knight of Lemonwood might intimidate a petty lord, he did not have the strength to sway the Prince of Dorne. No. The same was true of Spotted Sylva's father. No. Arianne finally decided that she had but two real hopes: Harmen Uller, Lord of Hellholt, and Franklyn Fowler, Lord of Skyreach and Warden of the Prince's Pass. I guess the Ullers must be pretty powerful as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Arthur Hightower Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 An Arriane chapter. I guess the Ullers must be pretty powerful as well. To be fair Arianne thinks Dorne's strength is ~100% greater than it actually is, I wouldn't take too much of her thoughts regarding military strength as fact. Considering the chances of any of those houses actually being able to beat all the other houses of Dorne is close to 0 I think we can view it as an act of desperation on her part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 To be fair Arianne thinks Dorne's strength is ~100% greater than it actually is, I wouldn't take too much of her thoughts regarding military strength as fact. Considering the chances of any of those houses actually being able to beat all the other houses of Dorne is close to 0 I think we can view it as an act of desperation on her part. Numbers aside, I think she would have a pretty good understanding of who the most powerful Houses are. When she claims the Yronwoods are the most powerful we can take that as granted given the what we know of them. I think it was also said that the main reason why the Martells are the dominant House is because the Fowlers sided with them against the Yronwoods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I wouldn't be surprised if the Yronwoods and Fowlers are closer to the Martells in pure martial power than most lesser houses. Or maybe Wyl? They have a greater need to immediate numbers.The only parallels are the Reeds, Leffords and now Royce of the Gates of the Moon. The Reeds rely more on terrain than numbers, the Leffords apparently guard an extremely narrow choke point and the GotM are close enough to the Eyrie to be functionally part of the same defense system.But the 2 passes are seperated from Sunspear by almost the entirety of Dorne...whose terrain itself makes the distance a greater impediment, and serve as the rallying point virtually any time we hear of Dorne gathering strength. I think the Martells rely a bit more on pure politics to maintain their supremacy than most other Great Houses...with the Starks being the closest parallel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay's Penguins Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I don't think Wyl etc are sworn to anyone. They are their own noble house, and noble houses aren't vassals of other noodle houses. So no, that isn't how Yronwood are so powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I don't think Wyl etc are sworn to anyone. They are their own noble house, and noble houses aren't vassals of other noodle houses. So no, that isn't how Yronwood are so powerful. Smallwood is sworn to Vance and the Narrow Sea houses are sworn to to Baratheon of Dragonstone. It is possible for a lordly house to be sworn to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I don't think Wyl etc are sworn to anyone. They are their own noble house, and noble houses aren't vassals of other noodle houses. So no, that isn't how Yronwood are so powerful. Yes, they can be. We know that the Coldwaters and Tollets, both Lordy Houses, are sworn to the Royces. We know that the Charltons, a Lordly House, is sworn to the Freys. That the Smallwoods to House Vance of Wayfarer's Rest. We know that the Beesburys, Costanyes, Mullendores, Bulwers and Cuys, all Lordly Houses, are sworn to the Hightowers. It is possible that there are more lordly Houses that are vassals of other Lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Condoms are sworn to Cerwyns. :P Several lordly Houses are sworn to the Glovers. Nearly all crannogmen lordly Houses are sworn to the Reeds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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