[Book Spoilers] EP108 Discussion

[Lord O' Bones]

Syrio's end is wonderfully rendered and as logically unambiguous as ever.

Syrio's death, the how, why, when and what for: Awesome!

Conjecture that he lives, largely based on comic fandom and wank: Whatever the opposite of awesome is.

[Ambitus]

Also this is incredibly small but I liked how they had Arya whisper "not today" to herself as she escaped. The quotes she learned from Syrio in the book "Swift as a deer" etc, were important to me because when she thought them throughout the series it showed Syrio living on through her. I'll be happy if, since we can't see in her head, this quote replaces that to help us remember Syrio.

[Huan]

I'll just add that it seems like they are combining Greatjon Umber and Lord Karstark's book roles into show role Greatjon Umber. It's not a big stretch to do that.

[malarky1231]

Kinda disappointed we didn't get to see the battle of the green forks. Guess that'll be in the next episode.

[iheartseverus]

Of course it was important, without it there wouldn't have been any nudity this episode!

Honestly though after Ros I'm a bit numb to that whole thing, I was just glad I didn't have to strain to here the sexposition over moaning. I'd rather see Hodor's Giant than Ros... and I realized how weird that is now that I've typed it.

LOL, totally agree. I was SO worried earlier when GRRM posted on his (not-a) blog that others had written bits of this episode. My first thought was 'oh, no, no, NO--please god, not Random Ros again!' By comparison, Hodor's Giant, if that was HBO's obligatory wiggly-jiggly for the episode, shrug...

I had a weird 'gasp' reaction after Drogo's fight--he dropped the dripping bloody tongue on the pile of other guts and body parts and then wiped his hand across his open wound. I was like 'No, don't! Sepsis! Sepsis!' Too bad the Kahl didn't listen to me, he might have gotten a chance to ride over the poison sea in wooden horses and sit in the iron chair after all!

:P

[Basileus777]

Then why is he hiding?

He's the Lord of Dragonstone. The show hasn't given any reason why he should be anywhere other than where the seat of his power is. The show hasn't even established him as a member of the small council.

[Lord Godric]

4. Now there's the Tully family relations I was looking for! Good dialogue between Cat and Lysa, and between Cat and Robb. I noticed that we haven't seen the Blackfish, which makes me wonder if he's been altogether cut. That's somewhat of a pity when you consider his great scene with Jaime in AFFC, but not a surprising one.

I thought it had been confirmed that the Blackfish was being saved until Season 2. As was Edmure and all of Riverrun.

[Ambitus]

Agreed, that seems like it would have been a pretty easy thing to put in the show - weird that it was overlooked.

Maybe it wasn't overlooked? Maybe I'm not picturing it right but when I try to imagine her khaleesi speeches with a big belly, they just don't seem as "queenly."

[Spring Bass]

How could I forget about Barristan Selmy's great scene? That was really damn awesome, even if it didn't include his concluding line (something like "it won't do you much good when Stannis takes it from you"). The actor gave such a nice aura of wronged dignity (and Selmy is one of my favorite characters).

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

I wish i was half as badass as Drogo was.

[Ambitus]

I had a weird 'gasp' reaction after Drogo's fight--he dropped the dripping bloody tongue on the pile of other guts and body parts and then wiped his hand across his open wound. I was like 'No, don't! Sepsis! Sepsis!' Too bad the Kahl didn't listen to me, he might have gotten a chance to ride over the poison sea in wooden horses and sit in the iron chair after all!

:P

I didn't even notice him wipe the blood. I was too busy feeling my tongue and imagining it being ripped out my throat... I concluded that it would be unpleasant...

[Zoren]

Dany isn't showing much signs in the belly at all of Pregnancy. I call a HUGE foul on David, Dan and Gemma for not giving her a prosthetic pregnant belly or whatever they need and cover it up with fabric. Are we truly to believe she goes on this far in a span of time with such a small belly and miscarries?

If I recall correctly, the final two chapters of Dany in AGOT take place a few weeks after everyone else's chapters are done (they actually take place at the beginning of ACOK) so there's still hope.

[Spring Bass]

I thought it had been confirmed that the Blackfish was being saved until Season 2. As was Edmure and all of Riverrun.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

[Lord Godric]

I'll just add that it seems like they are combining Greatjon Umber and Lord Karstark's book roles into show role Greatjon Umber. It's not a big stretch to do that.

I watched the show on HBOGo and the families they mentioned as bannermen of the North were Mormont, Karstark, Umber, Bolton, Hornwood and Cerwyn. So I imagine we'll actually see characters from these families even if they are just in background. I really hope they haven't combined the two characters completely (although for now they certainly can) as I do not think having the Greatjon murder the hostages at Riverrun and then be executed by Robb for treason would be the same. The Greatjon is fiercely loyal to Robb.

[iheartseverus]

I wish i was half as badass as Drogo was.

This--from a nOOb at the TWoP site. :laugh:

Drogo is 100% bad-ass! I want one of my own.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

Well Sansa is never supposed to be liked, not even in the books. I think her betrayal is a crucial part in showing how stupid and naive she was to run to Cersei. And I am disappointed they took that out. I think this episode portrayed Sansa as very sympathetic and that is not who Sansa is supposed to be. At least not yet. It is not until Joffrey's betrayal that Sansa is portrayed in a different, more sympathetic light.

I could be wrong, but from reading the forums over the years, I've gotten the distinct impression that there's a sizable portion of book fans that really hate Sansa, and never forgave her for the terrible mistake she made in the first book, despite the more sympathetic light she's portrayed in later on and abuses she suffers. My hunch, since GRRM wrote this episode, is that was never his intention, and that he intended for Sansa to be a more sympathetic character in the series.

Therefore by removing the betrayal of her father, he succeeded removing a lot of the hate people usually hold against her (though not all, people can still rake her over the coals for the Lady scene). I'd even go as far to speculate that GRRM would have removed that part from the books if he'd had an inkling how unforgiving so many of his fans would be toward Sansa due to her foolish actions. Like the aging up of the children, this possibly gave Martin the opportunity to correct something he would have changed in retrospect.

[ZombieWife]

Best episode yet. I have nothing negative to say about it.

Will ignore all whiner posts.

Except for one.....

Dany could absolutely be 5-6 months along no problem. Some women carry smaller. She was wearing a long skirt anyway.

Now, back to goodness:

Drogo rocks. Everyone rocks. Bad guys rock. Good guys rock. This episode made me drunk on happiness. I love everyone.

the end

[Spring Bass]

I watched the show on HBOGo and the families they mentioned as bannermen of the North were Mormont, Karstark, Umber, Bolton, Hornwood and Cerwyn. So I imagine we'll actually see characters from these families even if they are just in background. I really hope they haven't combined the two characters completely (although for now they certainly can) as I do not think having the Greatjon murder the hostages at Riverrun and then be executed by Robb for treason would be the same. The Greatjon is fiercely loyal to Robb.

Speaking of which, was Roose Bolton at Robb's table (and tent before Cat showed up)? I really didn't get a good look during either scene.

[Brewmaster]

Which I was worried about seeing as they had taken a previously mysterious scene from the book (the two men Arya had seen talking in the basement) and showed us who it was. In the book, it was just as open-ended for Syrio. So thanks for that, George.

Um, the Illyrio/Varys conversation wasn't mysterious in the book. Arya didn't know who they were, the reader clearly does. Its like 500 pages into the book and she sees two men who are described as only 2 men have been described previously. That wasn't mean to be the least bit mysterious to the reader. Just Arya.

[Asarlai]

AND NOTE: I L-O-V-E-D that the show did away with the foolishness that Sansa had anything to do with her father’s demise: Ned had those bases covered already

It's not "foolishness," it's a legitimate part of the story. She goes to the queen because she's sad about leaving her precious prince and ruins any chance Ned had for getting his household out alive. Ned himself did a lot to put that chance in jeopardy, but all for good reasons. Sansa is just throwing a hissy fit about losing her "valiant" prince.

The actress playing Sansa exuded the peril of her situation.

I noted very few facial expressions, a complaint shared by many here.

Jon Snow and the Emo That Never Ends: He’s just not improving. Sam is; Jon is not.

Emo? I see Jon with the corpses, not much there, Jon attacking a man, not "emo," Jon killing a wight, pretty cool, and Jon at the burning of the wights. Please, do tell, what is so "emo"?