[Book Spoilers] EP110 Discussion

[Songstress]

I have a confession to make.

Last week... Ned's death? I was completely dry-eyed. I mean, it was moving, and all. I was utterly fascinated with how they portrayed it, and especially with the job Sean Bean did acting it. Totally wowed, but I was not even the slightest bit misty.

This week? Tears streaming down my face with the Cat and Robb scene... and again when Dany smothered Drogo.

Throughout the season I've not been horribly impressed with Sophie Turner as Sansa - there was always something a little strange and stilted with her delivery that rang wrong in my ears - but tonight, she completely and totally rocked it. I was so caught up in her scene that I didn't once think about her acting, and as someone who was a theatre minor in college, it's easy for me to get sidetracked in critiquing the acting.

Speaking of rocking it - Emilia Clarke = win. Girl deserves an Emmy.

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau... I've always thought of Jaime as a "love to hate" kind of character, and seeing NCW in the part, I think I'm leaning further toward the love (or maybe it's lust... man is a fine specimen even filthy and bloody).

Agree that the King in the North scene was surprisingly early in the episode, and would have felt more epic and had more emphasis if it had been later.

I'm getting used to the TV version of Shae, slowly. I did a marathon re-watch of every episode today, and every time Shae was on screen, it was jarring at first. Not that it's a bad thing, just... I can't tell if I like the change or not yet. Season 2 will tell, I guess.

And the Varys/Littlefinger scene - oh man, I thoroughly enjoy Varys. "Do you lie awake at night fearing my gash?" :rofl:

[Lya Lamora]

Harry Potter was The Fantasy Series of my childhood. After the mess of those movies, I probably would have been happy with a hell of a lot less than this season was. Despite some really terrible scenes, and some really nitpicky things I'd been looking forward to, I think this is the best adaptation of a fantasy novel (aside from "The Princess Bride") that I've encountered so far.

[if anyone happens to know of any film/TV adaptations that serve their material better, I have about three weeks of time to kill with new entertainment :)]

Most of what I thought about this episode's been said already. I have to add that, during their scene, I was almost wishing I could read some good Arya/Gendry fanfiction- even though I know (and agree with) GRRM's opinion on fanfic. I'm so excited about watching those two actors (and Hot Pie) together next season.

[Monday]

.... "Do you lie awake at night fearing my gash?" :rofl:

LOL. I'm going to have to go ahead and call dibs on this for my sig.

DIBS!

[Corvinus85]

did anyone notice a woman in man's fighting gear around the main table in the "KING Of THE NORTH" scene. could that have been Mage Moremomt?

Yep. And we also had Karstark, or at least a guy who delivered Karstark's line from the book: "I will have peace under those terms."

[snowzombie]

My wife, a non-reader, after the Joffrey-Sansa scene: Who gets Joffrey?

Me: I don't understand.

Wife: Who kills King Joffrey? At then end. Somebody's got to do it. Is it Robb? Who?

Me: Nobody kills him. He lives.

Wife: You mean he wins? Jesus, what did you show me this thing for?

Me: You know, you've been very sick, and you're taking this show very seriously. I think we better stop now...

Well, the conversation didn't go EXACTLY like that. But my wife, who is just about the most nonviolent person you would ever meet, wished aloud for Joffrey to die a very gruesome death after she saw that scene (which was fantastically done - my second favorite scene of the episode, behind "King in the North"). My response to her was appropriately coy.

Nice Princess Bride reference :)

[Anomandaris86]

Overall very good. The dragons looked great, not shitty at all. My only qualm is the King in the North scene. Not so much the placement of it (though that too) but just how goddamn short it is. They rushed through it as quickly as possible and didn't really go into details of the political situation. In the books it was important because they discuss all their options and then the Greatjon comes with this perfect idea out of left field. I don't think the scene will have nearly the same effect for non readers because I doubt they can tell how momentous this occasion really is.

I also felt weird about the Pycelle scene, but then as I saw others point out it's purpose here it made a little more sense.

Also the Jaime/Cat scene didn't really accomplish anything, because at this point Jaime isn't willing to divulge his incest, whereas in the book Catelyn has already heard the rumor and Jaime admits to it. So in this scene we get Jaime admitting to shoving Bran out the window but he won't tell why. Nothing about the assassin either. There's no purpose to the scene other than maybe a little fan servive of seeing Cat hit Jaime.

On the other hand, loved the second Varys/Littlefinger scene. Especially where Varys asks him if he sees the people who made fun of him bowing as he's on the throne, and Littlefinger says something like, "They'll have a hard time bowing without their heads." This scene really drove forward how bitter he is more than the books ever did for me. Is that good or bad? Also that gave a good hint to non readers that Littlefinger was the one who convinced Joffrey to kill Ned.

Simplifies the stuff in the Vale I guess... Maybe Lysa's fall is going to be an accident, or caused by another servant or something. It doesn't really matter who the scapegoat is.

It HAS to be Littlefinger killing her. Has to!

I can't even get upset about the Pycelle scene. That was HBO's way of saying there wasn't any book material left we had to make up a scene. I really liked it. Kind of a nice resolution type episode to whet appetites for next season.

You mean preparing us for when we see him jump out of bed naked and piss himself? Unfortunately I doubt that would happen. I don't think the actor would be willing to do that. Still, through his robe there I believe I saw a bit of his junk...

Anyone else surprised how much they adhered to the dragon scene. I toltally expected them to cut out the nursing part.

They didn't? I didn't notice any nursing, though as others pointed out there may have been a little. Though they obviously couldn't show two nursing and the other on her head, as they needed one to cover her bush since she doesn't seem willing to show that.

Don't be. There's a whole lot of people that can't get past quibbles and realize soeone with that much screen time has a purpose. I'm surprised that no one has whined that the part of Pycelle closing the door could've been cut so they could show 2 seconds of something that happened "offscreen" in the books. I'll say it for the last time this season folks, TRUST THEM. They've done an almost universally praised job of making a badass series out of badass books. That is not easy whatsoever. So show some faith: Ros and Shae are there for a reason, the impact of Robb's wolf was made known (a big complaint from last episode), Jaime's rep is being bolstered, etc... Patience and faith. Trust me, you'll enjoy things even more if you drop the whining about the little shit you think could be used somewhere else. It's chess, not checkers!

So since they've done a lot of good things, we can't criticize them for anything? We have to take everything they give us on faith? Is that how it works?

The "You've ruined your sword" line was great, in my opinion. It's just the sort of trivial thing that's said in the throes of grief. I honestly don't remember if there was an analogous scene in the book, but I prefer the line in the episode to a gushier, more melodramatic one.

Agreed.

Yes, it's Marillion. GRRM misspoke or misremembered, or they changed the details later -- Marillion has his tongue cut out, but presumably will live. That's the big change to a lesser character that he was thinking about.

HBO GO special features confirms it is Marillion. Still, he doesn't die until book 4 anyway...So his statement was wrong on all levels.

Alright, I'm curious to what they'll do for Lysa's murder. Remember that she had Marillion in there to play over Sansa's screams. And also a big reason why Sansa was willing to go along with him being a scapegoat was because he tried to rape her. Littlefinger obviously knew this and planned accordingly. I suppose they could just have another singer who does the exact same thing, but it seems pretty pointless.

[The Warmth of Winter]

Amazing finale!

The dragons were perfect, they actually looked like the dragon skull in mini-format.

Sophie Turner did an awesome job with the "looking without seeing" bit with the heads. So many of the actors were perfect in this episode; Danaerys, Sam, Arya, Yoren, Robb.

And oh, someone needs to make a gif out of Pycelle's morning aerobics, and fast!

"And a one and a two and a three and streeeeeeetch!"

[Skillet]

Loved the episode, but with one huge problem:

A NAP?!?!?

Please explain to me how the Dothraki + Mormont reach the point where they are sleeping after the fire is blazing. I guess it went something like this: "Our Khaleesi is burning! Who is going to go in after her? No one? OK, let's sleep on it then."

I'm glad they showed the dragons, since clearly there seemed a point where the episode might end without them. But for some reason, the idea that the whole clan was sleeping while the fire was burning bothered me to no end.

[Spaßvogel]

All I can say, is I hate to have to wait. Of course, after waiting for the books, it should be nothing. :)

I liked the addition of Pycelle's scene because he's the one person on the council who we have almost zero backstory on. If you haven't read the next couple books you really have no clue as a viewer what this guy's story is so they had to put in *something* to give him a bit of characterization.

You could argue that showing him doing the exercises and getting dressed then stooping before he opens the door would have sufficed, but it was a nice book end for the point that he never arrived at with Roz.

[Skillet]

On another note I thought it was inspirational of the writers to remove Marillion's tongue. One of the things that didn't ring true for me about the end of ASOS is that Marillion would obviously have stated his side of the story, even if no one would have believed him. But in the books, we are just given the explanation that Littlefinger finds a way to keep him quiet. Sorry, but if a murderer accused me of the murder he committed, methinks I might say a word or two in my defense. But now, without a tongue, that issue is solved. Well done.

[jurble]

I thought all the components were there, but the machine didn't provide maximum performance. The Pycelle and Varys/Littlefinger scenes were useless. The King-in-the-North scene was the most disappointing to me. I just didn't feel it.

But Joffrey is awesome. I so don't want him to die now.

[snowzombie]

They managed to make it look like Dany was breastfeeding - that is if you were looking for it. The green dragon was in her lap and as she sat up he was not near her breast, but the initial image gives that impression.

For me, the dragon scene in the book got some of its power from Dany being told she will never mother a child, and then she hatches the dragons who become her children. Despite giving birth to a stillborn monster baby, her body still had mother's milk to nourish new life. It must be really difficult for women who have miscarried or given birth to stillborn children to still have the aching breasts but no baby to feed. This scene is profound because Dany is a woman. It would not have the same impact if it were a man.

The writers made some interesting choices - for starters, making MMD's betrayal very clear. Drogo didn't die because he ripped off her poultice, he died because she put some foul stuff on a fairly insignificant wound. But I'm left wondering why Dany wasn't told she'd never have a child. Perhaps because GRRM is going to write about Dany having a child in the future? And not only was the dragon scene powerful because she gave birth to new life after being told she wouldn't, her destiny as a leader seemed precarious because she would never have an heir.

Anyway, I'm not here to bitch about any choices HBO made, I think this stuff is interesting to consider in terms of what it might mean for her in the future. It's also interesting to think about how they'll keep Robb and Jamie in the mix next year despite them being "off-screen" for all of ACoK.

Lastly, Sansa. I liked her more in the books - she came across as naive. On the show she was a bitchy Mean Girl. But now it feels like she was played that way to make her arc more dramatic, she went from being someone who didn't appreciate her family and aspired to become a Baratheon/Lannister, to realizing she took her family for granted. She seemed like she had a weak character and not much integrity. Now she has to learn to be strong and remain true to herself while seeming to obey Joffrey.

[tarantella]

I thought all the components were there, but the machine didn't provide maximum performance. The Pycelle and Varys/Littlefinger scenes were useless. The King-in-the-North scene was the most disappointing to me. I just didn't feel it.

But Joffrey is awesome. I so don't want him to die now.

Whaaat. Jack Gleeson is a perfect Joffrey, but I still can't wait to see Joff get what's coming to him. So much longer to wait...

Now I really, really have to watch this episode, but I'm at university, so I'll have to wait a while still :crying:

[Damocles]

Ros: I am beginning to think she's going to be an 'escape hatch' for the writers. If the show goes a full seven seasons they may need some way of transferring knowledge from one character to another. She'll probably boff Joff next just to keep their options open.

What the hell? lol. Can someone interpret this for me? Or is this some kind of literary device that I missed in my creative writing class? Admittedly, there was a lot less ass playing.

But for what it's worth, the whole point of Joff's character was that if he had gotten laid, he might have been more sufferable instead of remaining a miserable little immature shit. Tyrion commented on it once to Bronn.

[Asha—Not Yara!]

My only qualm is the King in the North scene. Not so much the placement of it (though that too) but just how goddamn short it is. They rushed through it as quickly as possible and didn't really go into details of the political situation. In the books it was important because they discuss all their options and then the Greatjon comes with this perfect idea out of left field. I don't think the scene will have nearly the same effect for non readers because I doubt they can tell how momentous this occasion really is.

Well, my brother's been watching the series with me, and he hasn't read the book, and he absolutely loved that scene and was fist pumping "King of the Norrath!" and chanting along with them, and now has started reading the books because he wants to see how "The King of the North" is doing (I'm actually a bit scared how he's going to react to the Red Wedding in third book LOL). He said it was his favorite part of the series, and can't wait to see season 2 because of it, so I think your fears that it won't have the same effect on the non readers isn't very valid.

[fadingsignal]

Someone asked for an animated GIF of Pycelle's little aerobic routine. Ask and ye shall receive, LOL! Although, pardon the 2+MB file size; I don't make animated GIFs so I appear to suck at optimizing them.

http://i51.tinypic.com/5n1vyb.gif

[A'shaman]

What the hell? lol. Can someone interpret this for me? Or is this some kind of literary device that I missed in my creative writing class? Admittedly, there was a lot less ass playing.

But for what it's worth, the whole point of Joff's character was that if he had gotten laid, he might have been more sufferable instead of remaining a miserable little immature shit. Tyrion commented on it once to Bronn.

He means that Ros can be used as just that, a device. A plot device. Let's say character A needs to know something, but without the internal monologue's that the books POV structure provides, how can the TV show get character A to learn what he needs to? Exposition...through sex. Ros is the perfect vehicle for this. It's a shame she's only used this way, because I like the actress and her character. In a way, I find Ros is actually UNDERUSED. Instead of fleshing out her character, she's just used so the interesting guys can have sex with her.

[Rhodan]

With the episode as is with the whole show is that while the adaptation is good, many small jobs are only half-way done.

- King in the North scene was good but it would have been better if they said more about King Renly than he just exists now. Stannis is still one mysterious lobster for the noobs.

-What exactly managed the scene with Cat nad Jaime?

-MMD was surprisingly calm when she was describing her revenge. Also, she was really raped three times already as in the book? Thanks to HBO, that surely didn´t look possible.

-Stuff in the KL seemed actually better than the book.

-Dany´s stuff at the very end could have been a little more faithful but I am not complaining.

-Jon´s finale was really the most epic.

-I guess the very end in KL was supposed to be "and so starts the new day for schemers." which simply wasn´t so well written I´m afreid.

Well, thank you, show. See you later on Dragonstone.

[CloudFlare]

What the hell? lol. Can someone interpret this for me? Or is this some kind of literary device that I missed in my creative writing class? Admittedly, there was a lot less ass playing.

By escape hatch, I mean she will provide an easy way to change the plot from the books, or simplify the complexities of plot, in case the writers can't make the book plot work on the show.

From how season 1 has gone, she'll most likely operate as a little bird for Littlefinger. When LF goes to the Vale the writers will have to keep him up to speed, and Ros is the easiest way to do so. Ros eliminates Alayaya, Chataya's house of whores, the Kettleblacks, Brunes(?) into one character. Maybe we'll see her introduced to Tyrion's circle through Bronn.

The amount of screen time between Ros and Theon seems like D&D are setting up them for meeting in the future. Not likely given what supposed to happen to Theon in book 5, but a possibility if they deviate from the script.

Edit: Ros could hook up with Oberyn as well.

But for what it's worth, the whole point of Joff's character was that if he had gotten laid, he might have been more sufferable instead of remaining a miserable little immature shit. Tyrion commented on it once to Bronn.

Yep, and if I got the dialogue right in the last episode, she was pushing Pycelle for hints as to Joff's nature. Possibly on the orders of LF?

[The Warmth of Winter]

Someone asked for an animated GIF of Pycelle's little aerobic routine. Ask and ye shall receive, LOL! Although, pardon the 2+MB file size; I don't make animated GIFs so I appear to suck at optimizing them.

http://i51.tinypic.com/5n1vyb.gif

:bowdown:

And now to add some music!