[Book Spoilers] EP110 Discussion

[Mad Sweeney]

There's the camp of people who, if it's not in the book, automatically hate it. Don't get it myself, but at least they're consistent.

Aside from that, I don't know. Maybe some people are just turned off to sexposition, which I would understand after the whore audition scene. But the other sexposition hasn't been that bad.

That and they complain that stuff that wasn't shown in the book didn't get shown in an epsiode (Robert's goring and death, Whispering Woods etc...)

[Kaitscralt]

Man, thoughts keep flooding into my mind. I need to take notes during this show.

People keep mentioning the Rorge/Biter possibilities. Now I can't be positive, but I could've sworn that one of those men had a messed up nose, like some of it was missing. Did anyone else notice this?

[Blue Steel]

So in the one scene in all the books that Tywin almost acts like a father to Tyrion, it happens on Father's Day. And then Sansa, Arya, Rickon, Bran and Robb all have to deal with the death of their father on the same day. Damn you HBO schedulers.

[Jaime Lannister]

Man, thoughts keep flooding into my mind. I need to take notes during this show.

People keep mentioning the Rorge/Biter possibilities. Now I can't be positive, but I could've sworn that one of those men had a messed up nose, like some of it was missing. Did anyone else notice this?

One had a nasty scar on his nose but a nose was still present. I'm sure that's how they'll handle a certain other "noseless" character later on.

[Kaitscralt]

Was I the only one that didn't even realize/notice/miss the fact that Sean Bean wasn't on the screen? That says a lot for next season.

One had a nasty scar on his nose but a nose was still present. I'm sure that's how they'll handle a certain other "noseless" character later on.

Ah, okay. Thanks! And agreed @ Tyrion.

[snake]

I won't speak for anyone else, but I've only read books 2 and 3 once a piece and it was in 2006 or 2007. I would be doing a reread, but I sent them to my brother who has thankfully read them and loved them.

That is to say I don't remember how Pycelle plays into the grand scheme of things as the story progresses.

Pycelle was a Lannister lackey in the books, nothing more. He wasn't a "player" like Varys, Littlefinger, the Imp, etc.

[NW Deserter]

People keep mentioning the Rorge/Biter possibilities. Now I can't be positive, but I could've sworn that one of those men had a messed up nose, like some of it was missing. Did anyone else notice this?

I noticed that too. I was looking hard for characteristics of those three that matched the book, but really the only one that seemed to match was Rorge. I actually assumed the guy in the hood was Biter cause he looked massive, while the third guy (without the scarred nose) looked thin...but he also doesn't match Jaqen's description at all, so now I'm not sure. Might just be a placeholder actor.

Either way, I don't really care all that much, as long as they make it clear through the writing/acting that Jaqen is elegant and well-spoken while the other two are...well, not.

[Basileus777]

Is it certain that it was Marillion and not a different bard in that scene?

[Ormond]

Though not my favorite episode, this certainly maintained the generally very high quality of the series.

I don't particularly like the decision to get rid of Marillion so early. It will be interesting to see how they rewrite the later scenes he would have been in.

I really disagree with those who think Catelyn's "you've ruined your sword" line was lame. Personally I think that's exactly the sort of thing a mother like Catelyn would say in that situation. It might have worked even a bit better to have her say nothing and just catch Robb's eye to have him come to her, but what she did say is fine. Pointing out to him directly that there are better ways to express his grief and anger would have been much worse and more embarrassing, or even belittling to Robb. Focusing on the minor issue of dulling the sword was actually a good way for her to get him to refocus while still saving face.

[Rockroi]

The best season finale I have seen in a while.

What I liked:

When can I stop looking?: Yeah, I get it, nobody likes Sansa. Well, I really like her and I thought that scene with Joff (100% from the book, more or less) was tremendous. But her line- when she sees her father and realizes – much to her own shock –that she can handle it, she asks that all important question: now that I am doing EXACTLY what you want me to do, when can I stop? And I thought that one part was a perfect allegory for Sansa; it seems as if her whole life is one unimaginable torment and abuse, but that she is so hard now, that she takes it all. She will take any abuse, any torment any attack for as long as it takes – until YOU stop.

The King In the North… who Wanted it That Way: The King in the North scene was very important and they nailed it 6 ways from Sunday. But that one moment- the actor playing Robb –once three men kneel to him- he gets that look in his eyes; that very slight hint that … “You know what? I DO want to be King in the North!” Its very subtle, but its there: Robb BEAMS with pride over it. Once somebody said the words, there was that long pause – at Robb could have said, “Absolutely not! I don’t want to be KinG!” But no: he stayed very quiet. That’s because Robb liked that idea a whole HECK of a lot.

A Game of Kings: I liked how they integrated a great deal of the early Clash of Kings scenes in this last episode. Seamless transition is the name of this game.

King and his Court: Sweet scene to underscore Aerys III. Hot pincers, people wailing, Joff giggling like an idiot. Who WOULDN’T want to punch that shit in the face?

Tales from the Crypt: Loved the scene with Rickon and Bran in the crypts with Osha; I really think that Bran and Rickon are going to be solid characters as time goes on. I was MILDLY disappointed in the way Lewyn broke the enws to Bran; I really enjoyed that part of the book (“we . . . we shall need to find a stonecarver who knew his likeness well”) but that is just nitpicking. Overall the scene was scary, heartbreaking and gritty. Missed Summer, though.

The Old Bear Just Owns: I think Jon Snow is the weakest character in the book and now in the show. But his scenes arte 100x better when Lord Mormont takes the center stage and pontificates. His voice-over speech with the scenes of them riding North was as good a transition as anything they have done in the show. Stupendous. Really great stuff.

Tyrion and Tywin: Closer Than We Think Maybe the best scene in terms of dialog and acting was the whole Tyrion and Tywin scene. Show-Tywin has VASTLY more respect for Tyrion than book-Tywin. This version is far more realistic and I enjoy it much more. I think its very telling how Tywin has control over every aspect of his household and his men, and will use them all to maximum advantage: even his son(s). And buried in all of it is just how much of a mind Tyrion has and how similar it is to Tywin; they think alike and they know how to play this game. I think these two characters and the two actors are tremendous.

Cat and Jaime: I wanted more, but at least they got my sig, right? Great scene.

Seeing is Believing: I liked the growth of the Varys/LF dynamic and I can even take the fact that they speak so openly to one another, but I enjoyed that buried in all this is the capable Pyrcell- not the doddering old fool he plays on (seriously: I am STUNNED people on this board did not figure out- immediately –what they were going for there). And I liked how he’s getting his info from Rox. Always remember what Obi-wan says: You’re eyes deceive you; don’t trust them.” And that old man ain’t that old.

And For the First Time in hundreds of years … So, I have said it before, but it bears repeating: there are some scenes that when I first read them I had them designed in my head: I could (because Martin is a tremendous writer) picture and map out everything the scene had in it and exactly how it looked.

The scene with the MOTHER FUCKING Dragons looked exactly the way I had always pictured it. The dragons, the look in Dany’s eyes, the dragons and how they moved on her (and how one of them was totally breast feeding); the desecration; the ruined landscape, the dragons, the way Jorah knelt, the way they all knelt and the way it all seemed to be 100% legit: like you would EXPECT that this would be the way people would react if somebody they knew commanded three bad-ass dragons. It was utterly mesmerizing.

And Honorable mention to the woman who played the Mirri Maz Duur. I never wanted to punch a woman in the teeth more than her. Great acting. And that woman sure knew how to scream.

A little meh on:

Hey, You Look Familiar: I am NOT a fan of the Syrio = Jaquen theory. So, I say this with great reservations: One of the guys in the cart going off to the wall TOTALLY looked like Syrio with his head and beard shaved. I mean, he’s got his eyes closed as they are moving out, but .. yeah… there I said it. I hope I am wrong.

Not Liking:

Shea: I can tell that you will be the person who when your scenes come on screen next season that’s when I get up to get some food. Because in the end, you are really just a secondary character and not a particularly interesting one at that; the fact that you talk wayyyy too much just makes that worse.

Overall, this was a fantastic episode that I enjoyed back to front. The series overall was a tremendous success with only minor complaints and few things that- if I could – I would change. I think this was as good a show as we could have hoped for, if we ever hoped for anything. Great job HBO; great job George.

Play resumes Spring 2012. Well done.

And we all lose our stuff July 12.

[Grack21]

Wait, was the really fat kid Hot Pie? I thought maybe he was, but wasn't sure.

Oh he was. One of my friend's is like Captain of the Hot Pie Fan Club. He was flipping out.

[Lord Mord]

I was actually caught up in this episode. Thrilled.

Here's the thing: I look at the books and the TV series as utterly different. If something doesn't fit the books, I might be disappointed, but it takes nothing away from the series.

I think this was the best episode. I loved nearly everything about it, and was disappointed in ... Nothing. The Varys/LF scene was fantastic, Yoren was spot on. Every hint played, every nuance was wholly in character, and ... HA! DRAGONS!!!!!!! THOSE did not disappoint, sirrah.

I want more ....... Now!

P.S. Oh, and I fucking loved the bit with Pycelle. That last little bit before he goes out the door had me and the bf practically rolling on the floor.

[jefe91]

That was Rorge, with a partial missing nose, Jaqen had a hood on and bitter had his mouth closed

[House Snow]

Also I think the Pycelle scene should be taken from a nonreader's point of view. If I hadn't read the book I would have been sort of taken aback that Pycelle might actually be a player. And even as a reader I was a little surprise. It really was a nice little twist.

[beniowa]

Is it certain that it was Marillion and not a different bard in that scene?

Not sure how much stock you'd place in this, but the closed captioning said "Marillion". And I believe Ran and others have already said it was the same actor.

[House Snow]

So wait a minute was Marillion killed? I though they were cutting his tongue out?

[Trebla]

From EW's recap

King's Landing: Joffrey is hard at work making lives miserable, forcing a minstrel to perform a song in front of the court. Seems the singer was overheard playing a tune mocking King Robert and Cersei in a tavern, was arrested and brought before Joffrey. American Idol would be so much more interesting if these were the stakes. The minstrel promises to never perform the song again, but Joffrey wants to make certain (when I asked the producers why they moved this maiming up from Book 3 to season one, they said simply, "We couldn't resist")

[Winterfelled]

Even better than the last episode, in my opinion. I think from a technical standpoint, this was the first episode all season where the pacing wasn't just good, but perfect. Nothing felt rushed or crammed or trimmed, everything had time to breath. There were monologues and cinematic sequences, yet time enough for extensive head-hopping and a dozen tiny reveals. Each cliffhanger could have stood alone in it's own episode. It really felt like a season finale, honestly and truly.

The "You've ruined your sword" line was great, in my opinion. It's just the sort of trivial thing that's said in the throes of grief. I honestly don't remember if there was an analogous scene in the book, but I prefer the line in the episode to a gushier, more melodramatic one.

I had no qualms with the episode, except that it was only an hour long. But given how well it was paced, who knows what kind of a mess could have been made out of 90 or 120 minutes. Best to leave it as it is.

I am looking forward to next season, but I am very worried about how they plan on fitting that book into 10 episodes. It was a sometimes terribly rushed and uneven this year with a smaller book, so I can't imagine how they're going to manage Clash.

[MusaYo]

I loved the Cat and Robb scene, and also Cat and Jamie. Also the start of the episode, scenes with Arya and Yoren. Powerful scenes. The King of the North scene was thrilling! I thought the episode was less emotional than Episode 9, but dramatic enough, and a great set up for Season 2

[Rangers30]

The best season finale I have seen in a while.

What I liked:

The Old Bear Just Owns: I think Jon Snow is the weakest character in the book and now in the show. But his scenes arte 100x better when Lord Mormont takes the center stage and pontificates. His voice-over speech with the scenes of them riding North was as good a transition as anything they have done in the show. Stupendous. Really great stuff.

Jon's entire repertoire seems to consist of him bugging his eyes out and looking constipated.

Not Liking:

Shea: I can tell that you will be the person who when your scenes come on screen next season that’s when I get up to get some food. Because in the end, you are really just a secondary character and not a particularly interesting one at that; the fact that you talk wayyyy too much just makes that worse.

At least in that way she resembles Book Shae then.