[ADWD SPOILERS] After ADWD, how big is your anticipation for the next book?

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

I was afraid of aDwD. My fears were not allayed upon reading it.

Instead, I'm even more afraid for tWoW. :/ Especially because there are going to be at least 11 billion PoV's, half of which I don't give a crap about since GRRM refuses to actually kill anyone. E.g. I really wish he'd just let Theon die.

[A Redeemed Hound]

I am expecting huge things in Winds of Winter. The last two books (for good or ill) spend most of their time setting up the pieces. Now everyone and everything is in place for all hell to break loose. There really isn't anywhere else for them to go at this point.

I agree that Tyrion spent too much time floating around and Dany just nibbled on figs for most of the book but that was done in order for all of the players to catch up. Victarion had to make it to Mereen, Aegon had to make it to Westeros, Tyrion had to make it to Mereen around the time Victarion got there, etc.

That was the knot that took so long to cut.

So yes, I am expecting no knots now and pure chaos in the next book. Winter Has Come!

[tipopellet]

Victarion had to make it to Mereen

And stil didn't :D

[DisabledTeacher]

The whole simple straightforwardness threw me off. The entire handling of the North & Jon Snow has made this book very bitter in my mouth. If Jon isnt redeemed quickly in the next book I dont know if I'll be able to read more.

[Quick Ben]

A Redeemed Hound said:

"Now everyone and everything is in place for all hell to break loose. There really isn't anywhere else for them to go at this point."

Can you really say that after ADwD? There are all kinds of places they could go at this point. I wouldn't be shocked if in TWoW Tyrion remembers that he forgot his favorite slashed velvit doublet with matching supple leather breeches back in Pentos, & must now make an arduos book-long journey to retrieve them while commenting on the local flora & fauna. And he must do it before he meets Dany, lest he be innappropriately attired at said meeting.

Any expectations that Dany will go straight to Westeros if/when she ever actually decides to just burn Mereen to the ground & move on with her life are going to be left unfulfilled as well, I believe. Based on some happenings in ADwD & clues from the other books, you better believe she's heading to Ashai 1st. And if anyone thinks you're going to enter a new & mystical environment & not get a detailed description of every turtle living or dead the POV happens to stumble across, you're dead wrong.

I haven't checked the weather forecast in the North recently either, but if that blizzard doesn't let up soon, Stannis could be stuck pulling a Donner party until spring.

So you see? There are all kinds of places the characters can (not) go in TWoW! And... now I'm depressed.

Sorry, new person at work. I didn't know how to reply to only a portion of a post. I'm duly ashamed.

[Rydis]

After reading this, I don't anticipate it at all. GRRM clearly believes aFfC and aDwD are the best books he's ever written. Considering that I greatly disagree with this, and that he believes that all those negative reviews on Amazon are written by trolls (so he has no intention of taking the criticism into consideration), I doubt either Winds or Spring is going to be as good as the first three.

I think I'm done. I'll stick to the TV series and, if the reviews about Winds are favorable, I may buy it. Provided that I still care 5/6/7 years from now.

wait..im confused..when I bought the first 4 books years ago..it was stated they were on the best seller list..even a GoT was stated right on the paperback to be #1 best seller..so..whatever GRRM

edit..to the quote you quoted lol

[Mjolnir]

How great is my anticipation for the next novel? It burns with the heat of the sun.

Dude! Jon Snow has a dagger through the stomach! Asha and Theon are snowbound while a psychotic killer and his crazy daddy huddle in a castle and plot their demise! Way things are going down south Arianne Martell might have to marry that little bitchy fucker Aegon! [or something equally foul.] Shit is actually about to get real in Meereen! Jaime Lannister may or may not be riding into the clutches of an undead madwoman sustained by hate for his family line! Only a zombie-knight of untold power stands between Cersei Lannister and a traitor's death! How the fuck can you not want to know what goes down here? Have you no soul?

This has been gone through in other places by more knowledgeable folk, but I'll post it here because it seems to be coming up again: There's this idea which seems to have taken hold very strongly that GRRM wrote each of the first three novels in two years, or there abouts. This is objectively not the case. A Game of Thrones was released in 1996, and GRRM started writing what would become that book in, I believe, 1991 [possibly even 1990, others will know more exactly than I, who could barely speak at the time let alone read about Eddard Stark.]. But then Clash would've only taken two years, you say, as it was released in 1998? Not so. I've seen interviews [can't cite at the moment, I'm afraid] in which the author states he was finished what would become the published Thrones and moving on to Clash by some time in 1994. A Storm of Swords was written in 20 months, famously, yes, but it is very much the outlier. [i admit I do find it somewhat interesting that, regardless of their opinions of the latter books, virtually every fan of the series is passionately in love with A Storm of Swords, GRRM's fastest-written novel in the sequence, and possibly ever.] These last two have taken crazy long, yes, but they're not as far off the original two books write-times as it may appear based on publication dates.

[Quick Ben]

They may not be too far off in terms of writing time, but you'll notice that a whole bunch of people agree that they are very far off in terms of quality. Also, didn't this whole series start off as more of a pet project than the money maker it's become? It would make sense that the success the series has brought the author would afford him more time to actually ya'know, work on the series.

[Mjolnir]

Oh, I'm certain it has [given him more time to work on the series, that is]. That's, um, what he's been doing.

Keep in mind that the whole working out the Meereenese knot issue involved a good deal more, by all reports, than GRRM sitting at a desk murmuring to himself about who should reach Meereen first: He actually wrote, as in prose chapters, numerous takes on the situation, some of them quite extensively it sounds like. So the prose produced for ADWD, in its various draft forms, is in fact quite a bit more extensive than the final novel. And even without that taken into account, as a little number-crunching exercise John Scalzi did on his blog a while back illustrates, Martin produced an amount within the timeframe between the publication of Feast and Dance roughly equivalent to the amount of writing required by many authors to produce one novel a year. It's easy to forget just how long the Ice and Fire novels are. He's been writing a lot, just not publishing it.

But we were talking about quality, not quantity. I think these two last books are great. They're different beasts, certainly, more interested in atmosphere and setup than previous installments in the series have been. But this is a good time for that: the first phase of the war is over, and we're drifting through the calm that lies in the eye of the storm. Personally, I think GRRM's writing here is some of the best he's done, and some of his descriptions do a lot to reinforce the world's fantastical elements without throwing magical lights round all over the place -- this is how I feel about the giant turtle, which so many people seem to hate. Perhaps his ability to say a lot with a little -- as in the description of the Eyrie in GoT -- has suffered a bit, or is just used less, but we can't have everything.

I just don't see why people object to getting a closer look at the world we're moving through and the people we're moving through it with. And the insistance on characters blazing a set path through to the end is a little baffling too. A thought came to me whilst reading: "You know, who ever said Dany had to go to Westeros?", and I'll grant you that's a little extreme, but why hurry away from Meereen if the character still has things to learn and do there.

Do I wish a little more happened, and that in particular at least one or two plots were nailed down more decisively at the end of Dance? Well, not gonna lie, yeah I do. Do I wonder how the hell GRRM's going to fit all the excellent characters who've got pov duties now into The Winds of Winter? Yes. Do I think that, with plotlines brought to the teetering edge of explosive disaster, and teased and teased and teased some more, I'd like it if the action picked up some in the next book? Absolutely. But am I still having incredible fun? Also absolutely. I love Dorn; I love Oldtown; I love Meereen and just wish Dany could come by more victories as a ruler; I love King's Landing, and the people in all these places; I love it all, and I want the next one now.

Do I have hard words for one or two things? Yep [specially the cliffhangers, which I seem to have different philosophical ideas about.] And these last two books do rely a whole lot more on the setup they provide being followed up by incredible payoff in the next phase than even a middle book like Clash of Kings did, I'll give you that; the first three ASoIaF books never had to make wait and see excuses to anyone about anything. But I just don't get the hate. The walk of shame that makes us feel deeply for the closest thing the first book had to a central villain; the subversion of the hero's journey in the dragon pit; how can people who loved the first three hate this stuff? It's all still awesome fun, and the characters have only deepened.

End burbling love-fest.

[Ran]

Rydis,

even a GoT was stated right on the paperback to be #1 best seller..so..whatever GRRM

You are, I think, confused. 4 years ago, you got a paperback that probably said, "From the #1 New York Times Bestselling Author" ... but that's because AFfC had hit #1, and then they note this on the other books of the series. If you go further back to before AFfC, you'd get paperbacks that said "From the Author of the New York Times Bestseller A Clash of Kings", because ACoK hit #12 on the bestseller list, I believe.

But AGoT never made a bestseller list until this past year. Its initial release underperformed, and it was only the strong word of mouth that made the paperback a perennial.

QB,

Also, didn't this whole series start off as more of a pet project than the money maker it's become?

No. Writing is George's occupation. He doesn't do "pet projects" so far as writing goes, I'm pretty sure. You may be misremembering the fact that the novel initially started as a scene that intruded while he was working on another novel, and then he had to put it aside to get back to his screenwriting gigs. But he didn't write that stuff without the intention of selling it and making money. ;)

The novels sold for big money at auction on both sides of the Atlantic. Everyone knew it was something special, GRRM included.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

You could probably cut some stuff in both Feast and Dance and make it one ASOS sized book.

My anticapation is probably like a 7/10, will probably grow when the next book is announced.

[schrecklich]

My expectation is pretty low. I am interested to see what HBO does after the third season. I don't think they will go through AFfC or ADwD very thoroughly (one season...maybe less?), and I don't think they will wait for GRRM to finish the series beyond that.

I actually enjoyed reading AFfC and ADwD, but it's becoming clear that GRRM has no intention of finishing the series. The scope should be tightening up, not spreading out after five books. Even as I enjoy learning trivia about the Sisters and the House of Black and White, I am irked at the disregard for the greater needs of the man story arcs.

I am also disappointed by the slide of the series further and further into fantasy. The political intrigue of the first three novels was what drew me in -- Varys, Littlefinger, Walder Frey, the Lannisters.... As the books deal more and more with dragons, zombies, and shapeshifters, my excitement diminishes. Also, the cliffhangers haven't bothered me, but the prematurely announced deaths have -- Theon, Aegon, Davos, Mance Rayder plus the possibility for Bloodraven, Jon, and Stannis just in Dance (with Catelyn and Beric previously and possibly Sandor yet to come). It's nice to keep the readers on their toes, but it feels a bit much -- I just want the story to move forward instead of jerking back and forth.

If the style returns to that of the first three books, my excitement will build as I read TWoW and I will eagerly anticipate the following book. Otherwise, I will surely enjoy TWoW any way but in a more casual way, resigned to the fact that the series will probably never end.

[Frey Filet]

For those of you who feel like the storyline is getting too bogged down and stagnant after reading aDwD, you're reading the wrong sub-genre of fantasy. From the beginning of the series, Martin built subplots from plots which sprouted from other plots. This is fantasy on a grander scale, and with so many characters, settings, and story lines, demands more than your typical 3-4 400 page books in a series. I think the cliffhangers are some of the hallmarks of the series, as opposed to being overused as some commentors have stated. Just accept the series for what it is instead of knocking it b/c its not LOTR reborn.

[Relic]

I didn't get excited about aDwD till a few weeks before its release. aFfC left me numb. aDwD sucked me back in. I'm looking forward to book 6, but i'm aware it'll be 2016 or later before it's out.

[Leuf]

Keep in mind that the whole working out the Meereenese knot issue involved a good deal more, by all reports, than GRRM sitting at a desk murmuring to himself about who should reach Meereen first: He actually wrote, as in prose chapters, numerous takes on the situation, some of them quite extensively it sounds like. So the prose produced for ADWD, in its various draft forms, is in fact quite a bit more extensive than the final novel.

I'll preface this by saying I do like the book, so I'm not just hating on the man here, but give me a break. This is where his whole I'm a gardener not an architect thing bites him in the ass. You don't have to write until you have written yourself into a corner and then say oops and start over. Really how hard is it to write all the events that needed to happen in Meereen on index cards and move them around until you have them in an order that works so you can make an outline and then write the book? It's not like all these various characters that were headed for Meereen are even interacting with each other and by the end only one of them has actually made it to Dany.

[Suldog]

I just don't believe the series will ever be completed. GRRM loves this world, these characters and the story, but he hates writing the books. Not only is it obvious in how long they are taking to get published, but he states it outright on his blog on a regular basis. He would rather be editing other collections, traveling, watching football, and working on the HBO collaboration. That's not a criticism - it's a fact, based on his own statements. He has certainly earned the right to just relax and enjoy his success, but it doesn't bode well for finishing ASOIAF. I see him taking longer and longer, putting it off a bit more, writing chapters that end up not working out, and just never finishing another book in the series. He's retirement age almost, and has finally had all the success that he could possibly have imagined. He's wealthy, successful, and winning awards and being praised to the skies. The HBO series was a phenom. I'm so happy for him, but there's no burning desire to finish. And seriously - he hates writing the books.

I suspect that he will end up collaborating with HBO and finishing the story that way, and never publishing another book of ASOIAF. He's a screenwriter too, and doing that will allow him to finish the story he loves, with the characters he loves, while letting other writers do their magic and only writing the most critical episodes. That would be better than nothing, but it would sure suck for us.

I hope so badly that I'm wrong. I love this story and I want to know how it ends. But please, find me a single quote, interview, or any evidence (in the last 3 years) to show that this man has any interest in spending his late 60s and 70s pounding out another 2000-3000 words of ASOIAF, because I don't see it.

[Grell]

George RR Martin: All that being said... when you state that "most of your readers" are disappointed with the last two books... well, you're pretty badly off base. A DANCE WITH DRAGONS and A FEAST FOR CROWS have been my most successful novels, by far. DANCE sold almost 300,000 copies in its first day of sale in the US alone. Those two novels are the ONLY books of mine to hit #1 on the NY TIMES bestseller list, and many other lists besides. The reviews on DANCE have been the best I have ever received, though I have been fortunate enough to get a lot of good reviews (and awards) throughout my career. I just got back from a book tour where I drew a thousand people or more at every event, and those who have read DANCE already (about half, I'd judge, more at the later events than the early ones) seemed to like it, even love it. That's like five thousand readers right there. FEAST was a finalist for the Hugo Award, the oldest and most prestigious award in fantasy and SF.

Yes, I know about the Amazon reviews. I have already addressed that point in my reply to a comment on a previous post. Amazon allows anonymous posting. It is no secret that I have my detractors. Hell, the NEW YORKER discussed them at length in their profile. The Amazon system allows such trolls to post multiple attacks under a variety of names, thereby slanting the results.

But the overall response to DANCE has been extraordinarily good.

Its really disheartening to read this quote from Martin, how can he be so clueless?

From his own words he judges success by how many books FEAST and CROWS sold in such a short time, attendance at book signings, best-seller lists, “professional” reviews and Hugo Awards?? By this definition GoT was a huge failure, he recalls going to book signings where no one attended for GoT. Is he deliberately choosing to ignore the reality that every one reading FEAST and DANCE first read the 1st three books, and it was the awesomeness of these that got people hooked, the huge fan base support, marketing hype and the HBO series for his FIRST THREE books are the reason that people quickly rushed out and bought the very disappointing FEAST and lackluster DANCE.

If the 1st 3 books were written as badly as FEAST & DANCE there would be no huge fan base, no HBO show… If he fails to realise this and is disimissing critisicsm so casually and had only listens to the fans who (ironically assisting in the decline) gushingly praise and attack all criticism.

I have little anticipation for his next book. I will hold all you sychophants, deluded optimists and "middle book" apologists to blame when WINDS is released in 7 years and is a cliffhanger riddled, travelogue, grimdark, back from the dead lamefest.

Success does not equal quality, Laday Gaga may sell a hell of a lot of “units” doesn’t mean its any good.

[Hear Me Roar!]

I can't wait. Sincerely hope that it's less than 2 years, as the editor optimsitically said the other day.

Wut.

Explain.

[The Human Abstract]

Wut.

Explain.

I'm not going to go back and dig up the comment or anything, but the editor said she thought he might be done within 2-3 years.

[Hear Me Roar!]

I'm not going to go back and dig up the comment or anything, but the editor said she thought he might be done within 2-3 years.

That would be great. If you find that comment, let me know.