Football: A Feast for Forwards

[Black Wizard]

Tottenham starting line-up is quite strong actually. :laugh:

And they had to stay in St. Andrews because there wasn't any 5 star hotels left in Edinburgh.:rolleyes:

[Slick Mongoose]

Tottenham starting line-up is quite strong actually. :laugh:

Except central midfield.

And two keepers on the bench, which is becoming a Harry speciality and makes us look like complete morons, especially given our huge squad.

[Black Wizard]

Not a fan of Kranjcar?

[Slick Mongoose]

Not a fan of Kranjcar?

I like him but not as one of a central two, he'd better with less responsibility (like a lot of our players, unfortunately). I see him more as an understudy to VDV at the moment.

[Black Wizard]

Damn. Not what the match needed. An early Spurs goal.

[BigFatCoward]

But players like Busquets and Alves get on my tits so much and there's an air of holier-than-thou smugness about the whole Barca setup that sets my teeth on edge. Real have a few scumbags but I'd much rather someone like Ozil or Hugain or Casillas than anyone who plays for Barca.

you'd rather watch a goalkeeper than messi, iniesta and xavi? WTF are you on about?

[polishgenius]

you'd rather watch a goalkeeper than messi, iniesta and xavi? WTF are you on about?

Where did I say that?

[Slick Mongoose]

Jolly nice of Hearts to stand around watching our training session. Maybe they'll want to join in for the 2nd half.

[Renasko]

No idea how Hearts are doing, but the night isn't going that smoothly for Celtic, either. 0-0 against a very poor European side. Same ol' story. :thumbsdown:

[lessthanluke]

That's because Scottish football is shit. The Championship is better than the SPL.

[Renasko]

The Championship is one of the best leagues in Europe, so yeah. There are some that even prefer it to the EPL.

Our problems are mainly down to a poor formation, faith placed in poor players, such as Samaras, and we're missing our main four players.

[polishgenius]

No idea how Hearts are doing, but the night isn't going that smoothly for Celtic, either. 0-0 against a very poor European side. Same ol' story. :thumbsdown:

Could be worse. You could be losing 5-0 at home.

[mormont]

All is going according to plan... if the plan is to lull Spurs into a sense of security. :P

That's because Scottish football is shit. The Championship is better than the SPL.

Scottish football has been going backwards for a few years now: nobody with any sense has ever suggested otherwise. Largely that's down to money. Championship clubs have access to cash that simply dwarfs the amount available to any SPL team outside the Old Firm. Hearts' record transfer fee paid is £800,000*, and we're the third biggest team in Scotland.

I don't watch a lot of Championship games, I must admit. But in terms of return for the money? I'll take the SPL any day.

*turned out to be a complete waste of money, too.

[polishgenius]

The thing about the SPL money thing is that it's killing Celtic and Rangers as surely as it is anywhere else. Sure they get the lion's share, but as the cachet of the league falls, so do the players they can get, so does European success, so does revenue and repeat. They're not careful, the SPL will disappear into Welsh-league-like obscurity within a decade or two. I think they really need to rethink the TV rights situation (I am right that each club negotiates their own, hence the massive disparity, right?).

Similar thing going on in Spain. Since the clubs all voted to negotiate individual rights, it stopped any pretence of any competitiveness, and while the glamour's still there for now, it'll pall eventually if they don't fix it. I've heard that the lowest team in the Premiership gets more TV money than every La Liga team that isn't Real, Barca or Atletico put together. Dunno if it is true, but if so it's mental, and it's certainly bad.

Can only imagine what would happen to the Premiership if that happened here.

[lessthanluke]

I've watched both the SPL and the Championship this year and I preferred the latter.

[Renasko]

Depends who you're watching play, Luke. I'm pretty happy with some of the football we play most of the time, and our best players weren't acquired spending that much, either.

I preferred watching us to United last year, for example.

[Horus Ex Machina]

The thing about the SPL money thing is that it's killing Celtic and Rangers as surely as it is anywhere else. Sure they get the lion's share, but as the cachet of the league falls, so do the players they can get, so does European success, so does revenue and repeat. They're not careful, the SPL will disappear into Welsh-league-like obscurity within a decade or two. I think they really need to rethink the TV rights situation (I am right that each club negotiates their own, hence the massive disparity, right?).

Similar thing going on in Spain. Since the clubs all voted to negotiate individual rights, it stopped any pretence of any competitiveness, and while the glamour's still there for now, it'll pall eventually if they don't fix it. I've heard that the lowest team in the Premiership gets more TV money than every La Liga team that isn't Real, Barca or Atletico put together. Dunno if it is true, but if so it's mental, and it's certainly bad.

Can only imagine what would happen to the Premiership if that happened here.

This is one of the most absurd aspects of UEFA's implementing of the Financial Fair Play rules in that it does nothing important since it does not touch on implementing fair distribution of tv revenues. Granted the big clubs will never willingly cripple themselves so it ends up as nothing but a hollow gesture. The Old Firm may realise that something must change since they are becoming less and less competitive in Europe, but the big clubs in Spain will keep the status quo so long as they're still competitibe in the Champions League. I remember that Malaga's new Qatari owners were complaining about this when they joined.

[Black Wizard]

That's because Scottish football is shit. The Championship is better than the SPL.

We weren't talking about Scottish football though. It was European football.

poor players, such as Samaras

How was his first touch?

[mormont]

The thing about the SPL money thing is that it's killing Celtic and Rangers as surely as it is anywhere else. Sure they get the lion's share, but as the cachet of the league falls, so do the players they can get, so does European success, so does revenue and repeat. They're not careful, the SPL will disappear into Welsh-league-like obscurity within a decade or two. I think they really need to rethink the TV rights situation (I am right that each club negotiates their own, hence the massive disparity, right?).

No. There's a collective agreement, but Ranger and Celtic get the majority of the cash - IIRC it's slightly under a third of the money each. This was the compromise after they first demanded the right to sell their own rights, then demanded an 80% share. They were eventually persuaded that beggaring the other clubs would only harm them, in the long run.

But there are bigger problems, at least for Rangers. Rangers ran up big debts under David Murray, and the bank eventually stepped in to effectively dictate transfers - selling many of the good players and blocking deals for replacements. The club has now been taken over, but the new chairman, Craig Whyte, hasn't lived up to his claims financially, and some doubt whether he has the cash that he claims. (His... erratic transfer behaviour gives some credence to this. His initial offer for Lee Wallace, our left-back was £300K, for example: a fraction of the player's true value - he wound up paying £1.5m. After Dundee United had already accepted an offer of £2.8m from Blackburn for David Goodwillie, Whyte put in an offer of about half that fee. If the Wallace offer was an insult, the Goodwillie offer was just bizarre. Why on earth would you accept less cash for a player who was already having a medical elsewhere?)

Celtic are doing OK financially, thanks to excellent match-day revenue and overseas marketing, but the lack of substantial TV cash limits their transfer fees. Also, frankly, Neil Lennon is no great shakes as a manager, and their underperformance in Europe is in danger of becoming a vicious circle. But attracting a better manager is not easy without financial risk, and the Celtic board are currently averse to that. Most clubs in the SPL are the same, these days. They've spent some time paying down debt and are focused on sustainability. Rangers and Hearts still have huge debts, though, and Hearts' books in particular are reputed to be a mess. It's believed that pretty much all of the 'investment' our mad owner claims to have put in is in the form of loans from his own bank, so if he ever leaves, we're fucked. Mind you, if he stays, we're a joke. I'd rather take the medicine, even if it meant relegation.

Anyway, the point was that unsustainable spending is not the problem in Scotland, with one or two exceptions. It does appear to be a growing problem in the Championship, though.

[Renasko]

Celtic are doing OK financially...

Aye. I'd go a step further, and say we're doing better than that. Turnover may continue to decline, but we've managed to reduce our debts to around 500k. The board have done a very good job over the last few years, especially considering we've not had CL money to help bring it down.

Last season was also quite positive on the playing field, with Neil adopting some bright tactics that made it very pleasing to watch, thanks to the addition of players like Emilio Izaguirre and Kayal, along with the first real goal-scorer we've had since O'Neill's days in Gary Hooper. His tactics last night, however, left a lot to be desired, and we failed badly. We only drew the match, but the fruitless performance from too many players and lack of incision on the ball was hugely worrying.

Without a few of our key players, we look like an ordinary side. Our strength in depth is not as good as we'd like to think. It's only a matter of time until we need to sell again. I'd hate to lose one of our best players, but it's the only way we're going to be able to go forward in the future.

Of course, a good run in Europe would make a major difference. Still, if United or Liverpool came knockin' with a 10m+ bid for Kayal or Izaguirre, I'd imagine we'd sell, anyway.