headtrip_honey Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 :) I know we agreed to disagree, but this is precisely the point I think Alexia is trying to make: Jaime isn't hiding her away for some altruistic reasons, he's doing it because she would be a threat to Lannister interests. That line about her getting her head smashed by some knight is rich coming from him, when she spent her time getting beaten up by Joffrey's KG and ignored by Cersei.And that's precisely the disagreement - you two seem incapable of fathoming that he just might be hoping that Sansa stays safe and hidden for Sansa's sake. I do. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 And that's precisely the disagreement - you two seem incapable of fathoming that he just might be hoping that Sansa stays safe and hidden for Sansa's sake. I do.Oh well.If he cared about Sansa's interests, he would be wanting to restore her to her ancestral home. But that isn't in Lannister interests. Sansa getting married to a blacksmith or innkeep isn't in her best interests either. She is practically royalty in her own right. Spending the rest of her life working in an inn belonging to her husband in relative poverty (compared to the luxury she grew up in) while an imposter is used to claim her rights is categorically not in Sansa's interests. It is, however, in Lannister interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 And of course she's still a virgin! :)Only because Marg's Maidenhead is made of Adamantium!!!! NB: I know here Maidenhead is currently missing in action, but that's only because she's lent it to Sansa to protect her from the advances of LF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 :) I know we agreed to disagree, but this is precisely the point I think Alexia is trying to make: Jaime isn't hiding her away for some altruistic reasons, he's doing it because she would be a threat to Lannister interests.Apparently I've missed some huge chunks of text. Since when is Jaime hiding away Sansa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Apparently I've missed some huge chunks of text. Since when is Jaime hiding away Sansa?It's from a bit he said to the Blackwood Hostage boy about the fate of the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hound's She-wolf Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Only because Marg's Maidenhead is made of Adamantium!!!!I actually LOL'd at this. :lmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headtrip_honey Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 If he cared about Sansa's interests, he would be wanting to restore her to her ancestral home. But that isn't in Lannister interests. Sansa getting married to a blacksmith or innkeep isn't in her best interests either. She is practically royalty in her own right. Spending the rest of her life working in an inn belonging to her husband in relative poverty (compared to the luxury she grew up in) while an imposter is used to claim her rights is categorically not in Sansa's interests. It is, however, in Lannister interests.Being safe is in Sansa's interests. Jaime (to my more sympathetic reading) knows that if he were to try to help restore her to the North, she'd be an immediate target. Babies' heads being smashed in, etc. etc.But I'm not saying it's what Sansa would want. Sansa wants to go home. To Winterfell. (and for that matter, that's where I want her as well)And I hope (and think) that Jaime would take Sansa's wants into account should they ever meet. That may consist of merely washing his hands of her, but I don't think he would ever actively harm her.It'd be an awesomely giant fuck you to his family if he did decide to help her, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 If he cared about Sansa's interests, he would be wanting to restore her to her ancestral home. But that isn't in Lannister interests. Sansa getting married to a blacksmith or innkeep isn't in her best interests either. She is practically royalty in her own right. Spending the rest of her life working in an inn belonging to her husband in relative poverty (compared to the luxury she grew up in) while an imposter is used to claim her rights is categorically not in Sansa's interests. It is, however, in Lannister interests.Tell me about it. Did Jaime care about Bran's interests when he pushed him off the window ledge? Truly his dealings with Sansa are about protecting Lannisters. If she was to marry some blacksmith, with the ways things are in Westeros right now, she most likely would end up raped and her throat slashed. We may not like it, but LF probably has the best plan in mind for Sansa: she needs swords around her if she's going to survive in that world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tearloch Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Jaime will marry Sansa after killing Cersei......it is known! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Jaime will marry Sansa after killing Cersei......it is known!Just when I thought nothing could eclipse the travesty of the Tyrion marriage :ack: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tearloch Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Tell me about it. Did Jaime care about Bran's interests when he pushed him off the window ledge? Truly his dealings with Sansa are about protecting Lannisters. If she was to marry some blacksmith, with the ways things are in Westeros right now, she most likely would end up raped and her throat slashed. We may not like it, but LF probably has the best plan in mind for Sansa: she needs swords around her if she's going to survive in that world. People seem to forget that Jaime seems to not really care about the Lannister image anymore. He said himself that he intends to tell Tommen the truth (you know, about being the bastard child of him and his twin sister, with no rights to the throne he sits on) when he returns to King's Landing. He didn't seem to be in much of a rush to help Cersei out in her time of need. He didn't seem to in touch with his father's desires, chosing his honor and duty as LC of Kingsguard over his father's desire to remove him from the KG so he could be heir to Casterly Rock......Jaime is not the same prick that pushed Bran out the window. His character has evolved. Why is it so hard to fathom that he genuinely wants to protect Sansa from his sister's madness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Oddly I don't see Dany exposing Aegon as the Mummer's Dragon to be a fatal thing. If he is exposed to be a Blackfyre, then they still have a claim to the Throne and although Dany may expose who he is, her belief that she is barren could still lead to her naming him her heir. Unless of course R+L=J turns out to be true.Either way I can't see Aegon and Cersei as a match. Cersei is the Kingslayer's sister and Tywin tge sacked of KL's daughter.It's not fatal necessarily depending upon how he acts. It could be fatal if Connington flips out though because it's all he's living for. I think he cares more about what the boy represents to him as Rhaegar's son than the boy himself.Myrcella still has a claim to the throne but he doesn't even if Daemon was legitimized. Blackfyres were seen as negative in Westeros. None of the Great Bastards were ever called Targaryens even though they technically are.Aegon and Dany might not even like each other. He seems kind of entitled in his chapters especially where Dany was concerned. She won't like that since she can be that way herself. I see their egos clashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Tell me about it. Did Jaime care about Bran's interests when he pushed him off the window ledge? Truly his dealings with Sansa are about protecting Lannisters. If she was to marry some blacksmith, with the ways things are in Westeros right now, she most likely would end up raped and her throat slashed. We may not like it, but LF probably has the best plan in mind for Sansa: she needs swords around her if she's going to survive in that world.Yeah, agreed. He didn't care about Bran's interests, about Edmure's interests, about Jeyne's interests, and in his search for Sansa Stark and Brynden Tully, he doesn't care about their interests. LF is a disgusting horrible pervert and I still think she's far safer in his hands than she would be in Jaime's... and considering that she isn't all that safe with him, that doesn't say much. He would kill Brynden and make Sansa disappear and then sitting around feeling bad for himself that he's the Smiling Knight now after Sansa tells him that he is no true knight. Why is it so hard to fathom that he genuinely wants to protect Sansa from his sister's madness?Because he has evidence of her innocence in Joffrey's murder (the confession of the murderer) that he hasn't come forward with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hound's She-wolf Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 He didn't choose honor and duty over his father's desires, he chose his own. He became part of the KG to be close to Cersei. He didn't come back and help her because he felt betrayed becasue she had slept with other men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 If they were switching sides, then Tommen's death could appear accidental (this is where the trust thing comes in) and therefore the Tyrells don't acquire the child killer reputation the Lannisters had, but do remove the problem of what to do with Tommen for Aegon. They can then try and broker a deal for the thrice widowed Marg to marry Aegon.Convoluted. If the Tyrrels were to declare for the Targaryens, Margaery's possible duplicity would be the very last and smallest of Tommen's problems: his most powerful, and likely the last remaining, ally has just left him and the boy is finished anyway. But why would they switch sides in the first place? Right now, they are near the top. Remove Cersei from the picture, and they are the top. Assassinate Tommen and restore the Targaryens - now that's a chaotic play. Under new regime they could end polishing Dornish footwear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Convoluted. If the Tyrrels were to declare for the Targaryens, Margaery's possible duplicity would be the very last and smallest of Tommen's problems: his most powerful, and likely the last remaining, ally has just left him and the boy is finished anyway. But why would they switch sides in the first place? Right now, they are near the top. Remove Cersei from the picture, and they are the top. Assassinate Tommen and restore the Targaryens - now that's a chaotic play. Under new regime they could end polishing Dornish footwear.The only reason I see is if Cersei killed Margaery. As is they have the throne so they wouldn't need Targaryens. During Robert's Rebellion they were on the losing side when they remained loyal. Maybe that is why they are only out for themselves now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 It's from a bit he said to the Blackwood Hostage boy about the fate of the Starks.At this moment, he didn't even know where Sansa might be: "Brienne, where are you? Have you found her?". Has she? When? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexia Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 So now it looks like we're doing one 47 page thread per Lannister sibling? Tyrion gets thread one, Jaime gets thread two, and Cersei takes the third? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 At this moment, he didn't even know where Sansa might be: "Brienne, where are you? Have you found her?". Has she? When?We were speaking of his plans for when he found her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faint Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 No, we don't know that. To quote Martin's intro to ASOS: "In the case of the volume now in hand, the reader should realize that the opening chapters of A Storm of Swords do not follow the closing chapters of A Clash of Kings so much as overlap them. I open with a look at some of the things that were happening on the Fist of the First Men, at Riverrun, Harrenhal, and on the Trident while the Battle of the Blackwater was being fought at King’s Landing, and during its aftermath . . ."Also, the chapter is not in its final form. Martin said he would not do any TWOW writing this year. That chapter was taken out of ADWD in 2009 after Martin decided to move Aegon's landing from the middle of the book to the end of the book. So it is not necessarily up to date with his most recent timeline changes.It would be impossible to claim that Arianne's second chapter seriously overlaps any of the chapters dealing with Cersei in ADwD for the simple reason that Storm's End has already been taken. As it is, during the course of the latter chapter, Mace Tyrell is currently headed to Storm's End to besiege it. Quite clearly, none of this has even begun to happen during the epilogue of ADwD. So the only manner in which the timeline of the Arianne chapter can be seriously shifted is for Aegon to have not taken Storm's End yet. One possibility I will consider though, is that there has been news about Cersei's trial, only GRRM skipped over that part in the chapter to not give it away. Or, perhaps, GRRM just trashed the timeline again. As has been quite proven already, Sam's timeline doesn't make sense in the slightest and some of the journeys Catelyn took over the first couple books are quite impossible -- which is why GRRM probably wants us not to paying too much attention to the timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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