NFL 11 push to the playoffs

[Jaime L]

Not abysmal, but certainly underachieving. He inherited a 14-2 team for crissakes. He's essentially had two winning seasons in 5 years as Head Coach. In one of the weakest divisions in the league.

Yeah, I would consider it borderline unforgiveable for a Phillip Rivers quarterbacked team to miss the playoffs this year to one led by Tebow. It was clear by the end of the season that San Diego was the best team in the division by far but they were going to miss the playoffs again in favor of an inferior team. In 2011, the Chargers outscored their opponents by 30 points while the Broncos and Raiders, two teams who finished with identical records to San Diego were outscored by about 80 points each.

In 2010, the Chargers outscored their opponents by 120 points and still missed the playoffs in favor of a Chiefs team that outscored its opponents by 40.

It goes on. In 2008, the Chargers finished with the record as the Broncos despite outscoring their opponents by 100 when the Broncos were outscored by 80.

Every year seemingly the Chargers are far and away the best team in the division and every year they find themselves in a dog fight with teams who, all things being equal should finish 3-4 games back in the standings from them. I don't know where else to lay the blame for this but at the feet of the coach. Finding new and inventive ways to lose games he shouldn't has been Turner's M.O. all the way back to his Redskin days. He's the master of the the "No effing way!" game.

And I don't think there's been a coach in history who has finished one game, one play, one moment short of the playoffs as often as Turner. I swear, it's almost a skill for Norvilicious.

This was exactly the point I was trying to make. Thanks.

Yeah, I just think Polian's been coasting on his name too long when the results don't back it up. But then this whole Shanahan thing after Gibbs 2.0 has me incredibly leery about the potential for guys to lose their fastball over time.

[Stego]

I'm pretty sure Chicago is going to win 4 Super Bowls next season because they changed the guy that sits in a luxury box. And Jay Cutler is fucking DREAMY.

That Kool-Aid tastes goooood.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

^^^^^

Did a Bear kill your parents in front of your eyes when you were like 8 years old or something?

[Maithanet]

I agree that keeping Norv is inexplicable. The Owner who was so trigger happy he fired his coach after the winningest season in franchise history, then shows the patience of a rock, tolerating a far worse coach after years of underachieving. Norv Turner has exactly two playoff wins that could be considered good, and both were against Colts teams that were pretty banged up at the time (aside from Manning). In the con column, he has no super bowl appearances, and has allowed a very talented San Diego team to gradually slide from "elite young team" to "underachievers with an above average offense". Why anyone would tolerate that is beyond me. Apparently failing to make the playoffs in the weakest division in football the past two years despite being by far the most talented is acceptable.

Yeah, I just think Polian's been coasting on his name too long when the results don't back it up. But then this whole Shanahan thing after Gibbs 2.0 has me incredibly leery about the potential for guys to lose their fastball over time.

To me the all of the struggles of Shanahan these past two years come down to three things:

Years of poor drafting, the Switch to the 3-4 and The Quarterback.

Cerrado was so terrible, it was hard to comprehend how bad he was when it was happening. Everyone knew it was bad, but nobody realized it was this bad. There are two players from the 2009 draft on the team. Two from 2008. Two from 2007. Those are the drafts that should be in their prime now, and we have a total of six players still on the team.

The only thing that was good on the Jim Zorn 4-12 Redskins was the defense didn't give up a lot of yards/points. They also didn't get a lot of sacks or turnovers, so Shanahan wanted to switch to a more aggressive 3-4 style. The problem was that our team was already short on talent, and this change meant that some of the talent we had was no longer going to work at all. Haynesworth, Griffin, Andre Carter, and Rocky Mcintosh were all now playing out of position, and struggled to make the transition. I think that by next year we will have mostly ironed out these weaknesses.

The quarterback situation was a mess. In retrospect, we would have been much better off keeping Jason Campbell the past two years. The qb position is a string of blunders by Shanahan.

But aside from the quarterback, Shanahan has been making solid personell moves. I'm not sure that switching to the 3-4 was necessary, but the defense has been getting better, and another offseason should help to fill in the remaining gaps and depth. It does seem like Shanahan's my-way approach had short term consequences, but the Skins 2011 draft was among the best in the league. The offense isn't going to get out of the cellar until we have a quarterback who can at least manage 25 touchdowns and less than 15 interceptions. Grossman+Beck instead combined for 18 tds, 24 ints. But if Shanahan can have similar success in the 2012 draft, then the wins will be coming next year, at least to the point of being competitive.

I personally think that RG3 is the way to go. Moving up to get him will be expensive, but not cripplingly so like getting Luck. Although if we can get a project quarterback in the second or third round, I am ok with that so long as it is someone that has good upside and fits with what we're trying to do. I am not sold on Flynn. There are just too many cases of quarterbacks looking like rock stars in their first 4-6 games, only to plummet back to earth once defenses learn what throws them off. Remember Tim Rattay.

[awesome possum]

It isn't inexplicable. As I've stated. Lovie might be a good coach. But he isn't a closer. He doesn't have the killer instinct that you see in Belichick, McCarthy, Sean Payton, either of the Harbaughs, Mike Tomlin...this is the same issue with Andy Reid in my opinion.

"But his teams play hard for him" only goes so far.

I both agree and disagree. Lovie has shown that he has a tendency to take his foot off the gas. He's just not the type to run up the score in the 4th quarter. Denver is a great example, but really, even with the soft Cover 2 defense played in the majority of that 4th quarter, the Bears should have and would have had that game won. Is Lovie at fault for Marian Barber running out of bounds and then fumbling literally half a step away from a first down and an open road to the end zone?

As much as I railed against Lovie for that, we should have won that game. We should have won the KC game; was it Lovie's fault that Roy Williams dropped a wide open catch for a TD that would have tied things up? Or that Urlacher did his job by batting that end of the first half Hail Mary down (as players are taught to do) only for it to land in Dexter McCluster's hands?

And didn't that turn out to be a lot of smoke and mirrors?

Not really, in my opinion. Unless you agree that the last several years for the Colts have also been smoke and mirrors and that superb play by one player doesn't raise the level of those around him.

For the Bears it was the play of two great players on offense, which let the defense chill out and not have to keep the throttle down at all times. After Cutler and Forte went down, the defense was forced to do that and the result was the defense was absolutely worn out by the time Seattle came to town.

No coach is going to compensate for losing your QB, RB and best special teams player, true. But I bet Bill Belichick, either Harbaugh, Payton or McCarthy finds a way to guide this Bears team to at least 3-3 and allow for a shot at getting Jay back for a playoff game.

Well sure they would have. Belichik, Harbaugh, Payton and McCarthy have competent GMs who have provided either good depth or role players who fit what that team is trying to do. The main problem with the Bears the last several years is that Angelo hadn't been plugging the holes that needed to be filled. He went out and got Julius Peppers, which was great. He also got Chester Taylor and Brandon Manuatestegosbabyuna, two more offensive busts for the team in a long line of offensive busts.

Hell, Jay Cutler was on the verge of being a bust for the team and being nothing but a beat up QB who used to be filled with potential... because Jerry Angelo was horrific at getting him the protection and a weapon he needed.

I stay with my contention that it's a mistake to only clean part of the house.

I agree with that. As much as I disliked it, I was okay with Angelo, Lovie and Martz being given one more year to prove they can get to the Super Bowl or they would all be fired.

This? This is just hamstringing the organization by taking away certain cogs of a machine, plugging in different-sized cogs and hoping it runs the same.

Right now, that they want to hire a GM who's philosphy matches Lovie's philosphy, yet they want to close the talent gap between Detroit and Green Bay. Don't you think that this is at cross purposes with each other?

Lovie's job is to coach the team he's given. He may have some input into what talent is brought in, but it's the scouting dept and GM who actually bring the talent in. Lovie's philosophy helped lead the Bears to 2 NFC Championships in the past several years. That's more than the twenty years before that combined.

I like Lovie and think he's a good coach, but his time in Chicago is coming to an end. I think even if he does win a SB the next two seasons, he turns down an extension after 2013 to retire or take a few years off.

^^^^^

Did a Bear kill your parents in front of your eyes when you were like 8 years old or something?

He's like Batman, but instead of going out and solving crimes or stopping criminals, he trolls Bears fans on a message board dedicated to a series of fantasy books.

They're practically the same thing, really, when you think about it. And by thinking about it I mean drink poison and then hallucinate while having your stomach pumped in an emergency room somewhere.

[Jaxom 1974]

Lovie's job is to coach the team he's given. He may have some input into what talent is brought in, but it's the scouting dept and GM who actually bring the talent in. Lovie's philosophy helped lead the Bears to 2 NFC Championships in the past several years. That's more than the twenty years before that combined.

So? I refer you to your comments earlier in the thread (re-enforced by Jaime) regarding Polian in Indianapolis.

So you're cool when a reporter starts to ask Lovie about getting to the playoffs once in 5 years and he interupts to point out that it's actually once in the last 2. No, Lovie. It's once in the last 5.

His philosophy can't close out games.

I like Lovie and think he's a good coach, but his time in Chicago is coming to an end. I think even if he does win a SB the next two seasons, he turns down an extension after 2013 to retire or take a few years off.

I wouldn't worry about it either way. Lovie won't be winning a Superbowl.

[arrowfan]

I wouldn't worry about it either way. Lovie won't be winning a Superbowl.

Well certainly not without Cutler and Forte on the field!

[awesome possum]

I wouldn't worry about it either way. Lovie won't be winning a Superbowl.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

I've yet to hear you acknowledge how good the Bears were looking before Week 11. I'm fairly certain Lovie Smith was still coach of that team.

Add a legit #1 WR and a LT and this offense will be a top-10 unit. The defense will be a year older but still a top-10 unit; if they add a legit CB opposite Tillman that pushes them to Top-5 in my mind. The Bears will absolutely be in the playoff conversation.

[Stego]

^^^^^

Did a Bear kill your parents in front of your eyes when you were like 8 years old or something?

They made me cry in Super Bowl XX. I was a little boy and my team made it tot heir first Super Bowl.

So yeah.

[Jaxom 1974]

Well certainly not without Cutler and Forte on the field!

Well. Yeah. Though you never know what would happen if the team had some depth that would allow it to tread water too... :P

I'm sorry you feel that way.

I've yet to hear you acknowledge how good the Bears were looking before Week 11. I'm fairly certain Lovie Smith was still coach of that team.

Believe me, I'm sorry I feel that way too.

Oh they were playing well before that. I think they were playing above their heads a little because that O Line certainly wasn't the solid rock people want to believe it was with the changes and movements of players until a working formula was achieved. Your leading reciever was Johnny Knox with 37 catches on 69 targets, and he didn't play the final couple of weeks! Roy Williams (70-80 catches my ass, Mike Martz!) also had 37 catches on 63 targets. Forte had the most catches overall at 52 on 76 targets and he didn't play the final 5 weeks. Despite all of this, somehow they came together and did play well for 5 weeks after that bad start. They might have been playing well, but they certainly weren't "good".

Add a legit #1 WR and a LT and this offense will be a top-10 unit. The defense will be a year older but still a top-10 unit; if they add a legit CB opposite Tillman that pushes them to Top-5 in my mind. The Bears will absolutely be in the playoff conversation.

What tree do all those things grow on again?

[Bronn Stone]

Add a legit #1 WR and a LT and this offense will be a top-10 unit. The defense will be a year older but still a top-10 unit; if they add a legit CB opposite Tillman that pushes them to Top-5 in my mind. The Bears will absolutely be in the playoff conversation.

Wow. I would think they need at least a backup QB and RB to be taken even remotely seriously. The OL is a train wreck. Plus as Jaxom points out, adding a legit LT is a major undertaking.

[awesome possum]

They might have been playing well, but they certainly weren't "good"

They were one of the top 10 ranked units during that time, averaging 32 points a game. That's not good?

What tree do all those things grow on again?

The free agency and draft trees?

Wow. I would think they need at least a backup QB and RB to be taken even remotely seriously. The OL is a train wreck. Plus as Jaxom points out, adding a legit LT is a major undertaking.

OL isn't that bad. Webb at LT is a disaster and needs to be fixed, but I'm okay with the rest of the line, especially now that they won't have to block for Martz's godawful seven-step drops. Yes, getting a legit LT will be difficult, if not impossible. But getting an improvement over Webb will be, well, very easy.

If Kyle Orton gets no sniffs as a starter from the league, he'll be a Bear next season. Otherwise, maybe the Sexiness will come back to Chicago.

And Khalil Bell showed he's a capable #2. I still think Barber and Forte make a really good 1-2 punch, but Barber's screw-ups combined with his being injury-prone have killed almost any chance.

Dwayne Bowe and Carlos Rogers, come on down!

[Jaxom 1974]

And Khalil Bell showed he's a capable #2. I still think Barber and Forte make a really good 1-2 punch, but Barber's screw-ups combined with his being injury-prone have killed almost any chance.

Bell's sample size is still way too small to say whether or not he's a legit number 2.

[Reposado]

I personally think that RG3 is the way to go. Moving up to get him will be expensive, but not cripplingly so like getting Luck. Although if we can get a project quarterback in the second or third round, I am ok with that so long as it is someone that has good upside and fits with what we're trying to do. I am not sold on Flynn. There are just too many cases of quarterbacks looking like rock stars in their first 4-6 games, only to plummet back to earth once defenses learn what throws them off. Remember Tim Rattay.

Agree, they aren't going to suddenly compete for the playoffs next year. They need to focus beyond that. So RG3000 is a must for Washington. Not getting him just delays things one additional year.

What tree do all those things grow on again?

there's a ton of free agent wide receivers this year. if there was ever a time to be in need of one, its now.

I agree that keeping Norv is inexplicable. The Owner who was so trigger happy he fired his coach after the winningest season in franchise history, then shows the patience of a rock, tolerating a far worse coach after years of underachieving. Norv Turner has exactly two playoff wins that could be considered good, and both were against Colts teams that were pretty banged up at the time (aside from Manning). In the con column, he has no super bowl appearances, and has allowed a very talented San Diego team to gradually slide from "elite young team" to "underachievers with an above average offense". Why anyone would tolerate that is beyond me. Apparently failing to make the playoffs in the weakest division in football the past two years despite being by far the most talented is acceptable.

Professional gamblers adjusted the way they handicap for two coaches in the past decade. They gave a bump for the man in the hoodie. And they downgraded for Norv. He might be good at some things, but he's just not meant to be a head coach in the NFL

Bell's sample size is still way too small to say whether or not he's a legit number 2.

cmon, running backs are fungible. I don't need much to tell me someone can be a number 2.