[TWoW Spoilers] Theon I

[Faint]

I have to sort through why my instincts are now telling me that either Theon and/or Asha is/are the author(s) of the letter to Jon but, whatever the reason, that was my first thought after having finished the chapter. The tricky part about the whole thing is Mance. I would really love to know his present circumstances.

Another point not being mentioned much -- Arya is likely to run into fake Arya in her next chapter given how advanced her timeline is in comparison to the others.

[Night's Scotch]

How does Asha know what Ned would have done? Does she know about him from Theon or is this someone speaking through her?

Her father's Rebellion? Robert and Ned Stark are listed as scaling the walls at Pyke when they put the Rebellion down. She's probably grown up with her father cursing him her entire life, and she's been with one of the Mormont women since she's been captured. I don't think it's all that far-fetched she's heard about him.

[mediocre cheese]

Count me in agreement with whoever believes that stannis will end up giving manderly or someone his sword to be taken back to winterfell so as to fool ramsay into thinking he's dead. Hence the letter.

[Herta]

One of the things I found most interesting about this "gift" chapter is that it is setting up Arya's return - we have a false "Arya" going to the wall and the real Arya still in Bravos where one of Stannis' men is going. Will Arya don a"new face" and travel north? Although there is no certainty as to how or at what point Arya will return, I think this chapter clearly begins to set up the mechanics/structure for the future....which is exciting. I just want Arya back with her wolf Nymeria and reconnecting with herself as a "Stark".

I find it interesting that so little of the discussion has surrounded Arya speculation.

A great read and I join all the fans in wishing for more...more and more!!!

Thank you GRRM.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

what I'm personally dying to know - what is Stannis's plan!? Is he gonna set a giant perimeter fire to hold their grounds when Boltons/Freys/whoever comes!?

As other people have guessed, I'm going to say he pulls a Nevsky: Set up his foot soldiers on the lakes ("yet" referring to having to wait for them to harden a little more?) and lure the heavy Bolton/Frey calvary onto them. The ice won't hold the weight, ice breaks, Bolton and Frey calvary goes bye-bye, Stannis wins. I'm also keen on the idea that Stannis might use some trickery to fake news of his death — he explicitly told Massey that there might be some false reports of his death. That fake death might just be where the letter comes in, assuming Ramsay really did write it.

[Sun]

I think the road is probably the biggest chink in the theory — they'd almost have to cross paths. I don't know though, I still kind of like it. :P I just think it'd be funny if everyone had spent months trying to decide if Ramsay's letter was true or false, or if Mance wrote it, when in reality it was someone else entirely, for another reason entirely.

Hehe We have years to waste arguing until GRRM proves us all wrong. :)

[Faint]

I haven't read much of a discussion of how Arya factors into this chapter but it definitely places several important pieces into the framework of her story. She might very well assume the identity of fake Arya posing as the real Arya -- now wouldn't that be a trip?!?!

[tze]

How does Crowfood know Theon on the first glance when as Reek his own sister cant ??

Sounds Fishy !

This is actually an interesting point. I assumed Crowfood immediately "recognized" Theon, not by his physical features, but by his clothes. We're told in ADWD that he should still be wearing his "wedding" clothes (because he was given no others), and those clothes are black and gold with a cloak pinned by "a crude iron kraken". But then again, it's not like those clothes were covered in krakens (you'd have to be close to see the kraken pinning Theon's cloak), and black and gold aren't uniquely Greyjoy colors (House Baratheon, for example, has the same colors, and who knows if other Houses have them as well). Theon's own sister didn't immediately recognize him, and it's odd that Crowfood would. And Theon's clothes would have been so filthy by that point that who knows if they'd have even been recognizable at all as signalling "Greyjoy". I'm really starting to wonder if people in Winterfell are coordinating with Crowfood, and that's how he got the info to immediately recognize Theon.

And it does seem to ring warning bells that Crowfood immediately recognized Theon but was very suspicious of "Arya". He doesn't call her "my lady", he doesn't call her "Arya Stark," he calls her "Arya of Winterfell". This could just be because of the Bolton marriage, but it might be a hint that he doesn't think she's really Arya. Plus, he immediately starts grilling her, and simply knowing the cook's name wasn't enough to satisfy him---if he didn't have doubts as to her identity, he wouldn't have continued questioning her beyond that. (And I don't think knowing Mikken's name, especially as "Arya" had to search her memory for it, was exactly sealing the deal there.) The Starks apparently have an extremely distinctive "look", so distinctive in fact that complete strangers keep taking one look at Jon and pegging him as a Stark (Craster, Quorin Halfhand, Mance, etc.). Arya Stark is supposed to share that look, and visitors at Winterfell would have noted that, especially as none of her trueborn siblings had "the Stark look", so she'd have been memorable simply by comparison. I think it's very possible that the Northmen outside Winterfell (as well as inside) have recognized the switch.

I think it's interesting that Alysanne Mormont, whose little sister proclaimed House Mormont's support for the Starks as Kings in the North, who has probably been in contact with Maege Mormont (who knows the contents of Robb's will), is supposedly now headed for the Wall. She and the spearwives should get on famously.

[brashcandy]

Her father's Rebellion? Robert and Ned Stark are listed as scaling the walls at Pyke when they put the Rebellion down. She's probably grown up with her father cursing him her entire life, and she's been with one of the Mormont women since she's been captured. I don't think it's all that far-fetched she's heard about him.

Yeah, I agree, but there's still something off about her words there at the end. She seems to almost be speaking reverentially about the old gods, which is totally off for an Ironborn like Asha.

Hmmm, could the trap be set to kill Stannis at the weirwood tree, and BR is only using Theon as the bait to get Stannis there?

[Ice Turtle]

I'm also keen on the idea that Stannis might use some trickery to fake news of his death — he explicitly told Massey that there might be some false reports of his death. That fake death might just be where the letter comes in, assuming Ramsay really did write it.

Good point. But wasn't there mentioned some heads on the walls? Manderly or people from Winterfell?

Theon seems to be returning to his old self - being an ass. Poor Jayne, manipulating her like that. He should have been ward of Littlefinger not Ned.

Ah and do anyone else love the line : Strangely, Stannis smiled. Poor Stannis, people think it strange when he smiles.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Hmmm, could the trap be set to kill Stannis at the weirwood tree, and BR is only using Theon as the bait to get Stannis there?

It'd be kind of funny if Stannis had burned people (or tried to) because of their "king's blood" and he ended up being the one king who was sacrificed. Don't see it happening though; I think the point of getting them to the weirwood is to convey information. I don't think anyone's meant to be getting chopped.

And @tze, good analysis of Umber's skepticism about "Arya." Makes you wonder if they really did have inside info at Winterfell, and if the crypts passageways will come into play.

Good point. But wasn't there mentioned some heads on the walls? Manderly or people from Winterfell?

What, in the letter? I think the letter only mentions that Stannis and the spearwives are dead, Mance is a hostage and oh can you please send Selyse, Shireen, Melisandre, Val and the baby. I might not get what it is you're trying to ask.

[Ice Turtle]

It'd be kind of funny if Stannis had burned people (or tried to) because of their "king's blood" and he ended up being the one king who was sacrificed. Don't see it happening though; I think the point of getting them to the weirwood is to convey information. I don't think anyone's meant to be getting chopped.

What, in the letter? I think the letter only mentions that Stannis and the spearwives are dead, Mance is a hostage and oh can you please send Selyse, Shireen, Melisandre, Val and the baby. I might not get what it is you're trying to ask.

My mistake, yes in the letter.

"Your false king’s friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard."

Its not clear if it means Mance or not.

[Der Anarch]

As to Stannis's strategy: I assume it will somehow include the two lakes. Maybe he will build indeed snow forts, but on the lake. If he can lure the riders on the lake, the battle will be all but won. At least if the ice was prepared to crush beneath the horses... I'm quite confident that Ramsay is going be surprised when he finally arrives at the King's Tower.

he New Stannis theme.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

My mistake, yes in the letter.

"Your false king’s friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard."

Its not clear if it means Mance or not.

I don't think it refers to Mance, seeing as Ramsay/whoever says that he's alive and caged with the spearwives' skins. Honestly the "heads" line is so vague that I'm not sure it really means anything. For all we know, Ramsay said, "OK great, you have the sword, they're dead. Go bring me the heads so we know for sure."

Manderly/whoever goes to "get the heads" wink-wink-nudge-nudge.

Ramsay, assuming the goods are on their way, shoots off the letter.

etc.

[Sun]

A question regarding Jeyne as Arya:

Doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that none of the northerners in Stannis' host noticed that Jeyne's eyes are the wrong colour? The Stark kids have either blue Tully eyes (Sansa and Robb, Bran, and possibly Rickon), or Stark's grey eyes (Jon, Arya), Jeyne's eyes are brown.

[Chise]

ok, brain functioned for 5 seconds to realize this: Theon is more broken than ever. This whole "know your name" business is clearly more fucked up than it was in aDwD

Then it sounded like "oh hai thar my old self still buried in this Reek-body" ... now it clearly sounds like "answer to the name that's most to your advantage right now!": as in convince Jeyne of responding to Arya, and then anytime bastard-Bolton is called as such he corrects them 'cause it'll end in sooo much paaaaaaain otherwise

...... Theon is in for another glorious 'turncloak' moment somewhere between the series is out. I can just feel it

[Chise]

A question regarding Jeyne as Arya:

Doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that none of the northerners in Stannis' host noticed that Jeyne's eyes are the wrong colour? The Stark kids have either blue Tully eyes (Sansa and Robb, Bran, and possibly Rickon), or Stark's grey eyes (Jon, Arya), Jeyne's eyes are brown.

You think anyone stopped long enough to stare at her?

The camp is half starving and has better things to pay attention to (like possibly treating her injuries)

Also Jeyne cried so much her eyes are most likely giant puffy red things with impossible-to-see-much-less-tell-color bloodshot~ness going on.... oh, and eye-color is a funny thing that "shifts" depending on whats goin on with the rest of your head. If her face is pale and bruised and her hair is extra fucked up (would she get greys from stress?) - her eyes can seem not as brown

GRRM luves to use this to make Targ' violets seem blues, and I know from experience grey/blue/green/hazel tends to shift around.... Not sure how much brown in real life can be "shifted" tho...

[Sun]

You think anyone stopped long enough to stare at her? The camp is half starving and has better things to pay attention to (like possibly treating her injuries) Also Jeyne cried so much her eyes are probably giant puffy red things with impossible-to-see-much-less-tell-color bloodshot~ness going on

Yes, I think they would have taken the time to look at her, considering that, as far as they knew, she's the only surviving child of their liege lord, the one they were fighting to save from Ramsay, and the heir to Winterfell.

[Tom of Sevenstreams]

I am halfway through and I am absolutely pumped about this.

[Der Anarch]

We now know Theon has convinced Asha he's insane.