Dragon-Warging: Will It Happen?

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

Warging or no warging I think people do over play the power of the dragons. I think Tyrion's Cyvasse game against YG forshadowed that Dragons are a weapon that has to be used right. YG used his dragon to early and Tyrion took it out. I think Dany will loose one of her dragons in battle before she realises this. Probably when she first comes to Westeros. The death of a dragon may be symbolic enough to breed hope for those opposed to Targ restoration.

I think the Seven kingdoms are different to Aegon's time and are much richer and more sophistigated socially as well as militarily. I don't think it will be as easy as just showing up with dragons. Also I think some of the tale of conquest has been delibarately modified by the Targs to emphasise the power of their dragons. The kingdoms were divided and Aegon made aliances with some kingdoms against others,

[dark sister]

Don't worry, my great friends ;-) Bran, at the very least, will warg into one of Dany's dragons. I'm gonna wager a guess and say Viserion. Arya seems to be esp strong in warging too. Who knows? dany might find herself bereft of all 3 dragons on account of the stark children!

[PatrickStormborn]

The only Stark with enough power to warg a dragon is surely Bran. If Arya, Jon and Sansa can warg dragons, then what's the use of him being a greenseer?

That said, I don't think he'll be able to control a dragon. My theory is that he'll warg it so that it allows Jon as its rider.

And no, having dragons does not make the conclusion easy to guess. Martin himself has said that a lot of the resolution is about internal struggle, which is already evident from Dany's chapters in ADWD.

[Arya Targaryen]

Bran is the strongest warg, but Jon has an advantage of being half Targ. If he wants to control a dragon, it may be a mixture of warging and Targ-like controlling.

Arya: who knows? she is a very good horse-rider, and I think you must be pretty confident on a horseback to try to ride a FLYING dragon. That's why I think Sansa will never ride a dragon.

[FanTasy]

I doubt that someone will get into the skin of a dragon.

At this forum warging / skinchanging is applied to practically everybody and everything.

We are told that it is very rare and that even if you have the gift it is not implied that you can enter every animal.

Dragons are magical creatures, they are not alike animals who we have seen were warged or entered: direwolfs and 'common' wolfs, dogs, birds, a boar, a snowbear, a shadowcat and a 'common' cat, a goat.

[Arya Targaryen]

Direwolves are pretty magical as well... and I haven't seen anybody apart from the Stark kids who warged a direwolf. Varamyr had common wolves and he thought he would be king, if only he could warg Ghost. But there are other direwolves beyond the wall! And he never tried to warg one! Probably you need to bond with your direwolf first, and then he will allow you to enter. Jon had no problem whatsoever entering Ghost, and never felt that Ghost does not want him there. But they needed to develop a bond first. Maybe that's how it works with dragons. You cannot force yourself into one, but if he likes you, he may allow you inside.

[FanTasy]

Direwolves are pretty magical as well...

But direwolves actually existed. They walked our actual earth, while dragons have always been associated with magic.

[tze]

But direwolves actually existed. They walked our actual earth, while dragons have always been associated with magic.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Dragons can't be warged by the magical system in GRRM's books because dragons never existed in our reality? I don't think GRRM is exactly bound by that. :)

[mike_s_6]

I doubt that someone will get into the skin of a dragon.

At this forum warging / skinchanging is applied to practically everybody and everything.

We are told that it is very rare and that even if you have the gift it is not implied that you can enter every animal.

Correct me of I'm wrong, but wasn't it said in Varamyr's POV that the greatest wargs can take the skin of any beast? Animals do have levels of difficulty, and direwolves are actually pretty hard. But if a bond exists between the animal and the person, like the Stark children, it's easy since the animal is "willing".

So to our known wargs, to whom might the dragons be willing? Bloodraven, maybe Jon. If it's Bran, it's going to be from sheer skill. He will fly!

[FanTasy]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Dragons can't be warged by the magical system in GRRM's books because dragons never existed in our reality? I don't think GRRM is exactly bound by that. :)

Happily he isn't ! :cool4:

[FanTasy]

Correct me of I'm wrong, but wasn't it said in Varamyr's POV that the greatest wargs can take the skin of any beast? Animals do have levels of difficulty, and direwolves are actually pretty hard. But if a bond exists between the animal and the person, like the Stark children, it's easy since the animal is "willing".

So to our known wargs, to whom might the dragons be willing? Bloodraven, maybe Jon. If it's Bran, it's going to be from sheer skill. He will fly!

True. I would have to re-read all the scenes of Bran, Jon, Robb and Arya but if I recall correctly their warging was initially triggered by a wolf dream.

They dreamed of their wolf and in the dream saw through its eyes. These wolf dreams didn't read as taking over the animals free will, as skin changing is described seems to be. Bran was taught by Jojen that he could try to influence his wolf actions, Arya I think did this when the wolf she was into brought the dead Catelyn out of the water.

Except for the later scenes with Bran and in the scene of Arya with the cat at the Temple of Black and White I don't recall a scene where there was intent in Jon and Robb slipping into the skin of their wolves.

Little more on topic: if you can slip into the skin of a dragon and if a kind of bond is necessary to do it, I can only think of Dany.

But why would she do this? She dreamt of dragons but never saw through its eyes.

Why would she be in Drogon's skin? She can ride him and can use him effectively as a flame thrower. Why slip into him?

[Arya Targaryen]

Was there ever a distinction made between warging and skinchanging in the books? I can't remember.

I always thought, that:

1) Wolfdreams : are connected to wolves and direwolves, and happens while asleep. In this case the warg can sense anything the wolf does, but cannot control him. Like Arya, Jon and Bran are doing.

2) Warging: sensing smell/seeing/tasting while awake. Jon does it in ADWD (especially the smell/taste - I cant remember if he could see through Ghost's eyes), Arya with the cat, and Varamyr with the eagle - when spying on Stannis' army. I can't remember Bran doing it - which is weird. In this case no (or maybe a mild?) control takes place. (Varamyr had to send the eagle to look at certain things...)

3) Skinchanging: the warg intentionally slips his/her concienceness (skin) into the beast. So he loses control over his own body. Bran does this all the time with Summer, Hodor, raven, etc. I guess this is the hardest bit of the three, and maybe you especially need the training to learn how to control the animal. And it means a very strong/full control.

Dragon question - warging a dragon or skinchanging into it? Bran could do the latter. Jon, if he wants to physically ride one, don't need to skinchange, it is enough if he has the warging bond. Dany - I doubt she has any warging ability. Drogon just obeys his Mom.

On a reread, I noticed some interesting things: Jon sometimes thinks about/mentions dragons as useful/interesting creatures, or as a means to fight against the Others.

When Arya found the dragon skulls back in AGOT, she was afraid of them, she felt that they hate her. This could be some foreshadowing. No dragon for Arya.

[ARYa_Nym]

This was said in ACoK. She's seen the Titan of Braavos to get to the FM and now lives in Braavos. I think she will become apart of Dany's entourage.

"If I had wings I could fly back to Winterfell and see for myself. And if it was true, I'd just fly away, fly up past the moon and the shining stars, and see all the things in Old Nan's stories, dragons and sea monsters and the TItan of Braavos, and maybe I wouldn't ever fly back unless I wanted to."

Bran imo will be the one to warg a dragon.

Warging doesn't automatically mean controlling an animal and Bran is getting the proper training/experience.

Wargs must be trained to be able to control their animal and themselves when they are in its skin. It is very easy to give in to it's instincts and impulses (III: 103)

http://www.westeros....d_Skinchangers/

I think it would be dangerous for an inexperienced warg to do it because should they lose control, (this can happen to a strong warg who knows what he's doing like we saw with Varamyr) it would be easy for them to be killed.

Arya: who knows? she is a very good horse-rider, and I think you must be pretty confident on a horseback to try to ride a FLYING dragon. That's why I think Sansa will never ride a dragon.

I wonder if there is a slight connection. In an SSM it was said that Daena the Defiant was very good at horseriding.

"She was a wild almost from birth, lithe and athletic, a runner, a climber, and an expert horsewoman. "I was born to ride a dragon," she liked to say, but the dragons were dead"

http://www.westeros....s_in_the_Tower/

But this can't be confirmed to my knowledge. I imagine there would need to be some skill to ride it. I don't see Bran ever actually riding it because of his state.

[ghost the direwolf]

I think that Bran will warg a dragon because it has been hinted that he will fly. The way I read it i had the feeling that he will fly through something more than a bird. So a dragon has to do. And I think him and jon will use the same dragon Raegal.

[Stark@heart]

I've always thought the white dragon Viseron would be for Jon, like the white wolf was.

[Ser Wun Wun]

I've always thought the white dragon Viseron would be for Jon, like the white wolf was.

Yeah. I think that too. Martin seems to make the mingling of opposites a theme in this series (fire and ice, night and day, black and white, etc...). The silver-haired, fair skinned girl gets the black dragon and the black haired, black cloth wearing guy gets the white one. Seems like the sort of yin and yang theme Martin would go for.

I'm not so sure who gets the green dragon. My best guess is Bran will take it somehow, because I connect the color with the children of the forest.

[coalstrawbean]

This is a hard series to predict but one of the few things I'm pretty positive will happen ins Bran warging a dragon. There have been many hint that he'll "fly". GRRM was asked not to long ago if it's possible to warg a dragon and he gave a coy "we'll have to see" type answer

[The Dornishman's Wife]

This is a hard series to predict but one of the few things I'm pretty positive will happen ins Bran warging a dragon. There have been many hint that he'll "fly".

Come to think of it, Bran's not the only character who's been promised he would fly. The other one is Tyrion during his Eyrie episode ("make him fly! make him fly!" - "he will!"). Now, neither Sweetrobin nor Lysa can be expected to see the future as well as the 3-Eyed-Crow, but I'll smile if Tyrion is actually going to fly a dragon.

[coalstrawbean]

Come to think of it, Bran's not the only character who's been promised he would fly. The other one is Tyrion during his Eyrie episode ("make him fly! make him fly!" - "he will!"). Now, neither Sweetrobin nor Lysa can be expected to see the future as well as the 3-Eyed-Crow, but I'll smile if Tyrion is actually going to fly a dragon.

He just might considering his knowledge of dragons and special saddle making talents.

[mediterraneo]

There must be some way for people to get control of (at least) one of Dany's dragons, or she will virtually unstoppable when she gets to Westeros. The horn is one possibility. Warging may be possible, but I imagine dragons would be even more wild and resistant to being warged then humans.

And if Dragons are really "fire made flesh", they must really um... run hot inside, not sure how else to put it. So it might burn the skin-changer in a sense when they try to stay inside one. Like how I imagine trying to warg an Other would probably not work because they are basically "ice made flesh"

I doubt that someone will get into the skin of a dragon.

At this forum warging / skinchanging is applied to practically everybody and everything.

We are told that it is very rare and that even if you have the gift it is not implied that you can enter every animal.

Dragons are magical creatures, they are not alike animals who we have seen were warged or entered: direwolfs and 'common' wolfs, dogs, birds, a boar, a snowbear, a shadowcat and a 'common' cat, a goat.

I must say:

the Targaryens of old had a way to control theirs dragons.

And the truth of the dreams of the Dragon can be seen in the book, seeming something like a very limited, very embrional form of the wolf dreams we saw the Stark children have.

But: when the Conqueror came to Westeros, there were Starks, who knelt.

The warging power could be a novelty south of the wall, but there are suggestions (Boltons "wearing the skin of dead Starks" in their House symbol and ancient history, the presence of wolves sculpted with many but not all of the Stark tombs) that warging could be not unheard of south of the wall, and especifically between the First Men and their most ancient and famous families.

My question is: why no Stark in 300 years tryed to slip into the skins of the Conqueror's dragons?

Maybe it is simple: there were no wargs for the duty. Maybe there were wargs, but Bran (or the Old Gods) told them not to, as he did with Tyrion (EDIT: not Tyrion, Theon) and possibly with Jon during the series (Jon case was before ADWD!!). But this would leave us with the question: why warging now and not back then?

So, without definite answers, I'll put some money on the "dragon's will not be successfully warged" side. It seems that betting there is better paid than the other option, isn't it?

EDIT: Why did I write Tyrion there? I meant Theon.