Hitting your kid...

[Tempra]

I'd prefer to have my child trust me than fear me.

Then don't be an abusive asshole. It's not like kids will trust you because you don't spank them, nor will they automatically fear you because you spank them.

[Balefont]

Then don't be an abusive asshole. It's not like kids will trust you because you don't spank them, nor will they automatically fear you because you spank them.

Wow, thank you for your eloquent and intelligent advice, Tempra.

And yes, your kids can and most likely will fear you for spanking them and will trust you more and be more secure around you if you use other methods of discipline.

Time out works wonders. It just takes more patience, discipline and sometimes creativity on the part of the parent.

My daughter, whether because of the Asperger's Syndrome or just being her, cannot abide being yelled at. It completely shuts her down and makes the situation worse rather than better. So we've successfully used other forms of discipline and now, at 14, we have an amazing relationship with our daugther because she trusts us (especially me because I learned earlier on about the yelling part than her father did).

Parenting is exhausting but hugely rewarding. The more positive you put in, the more positive you get out.

[Tempra]

Wow, thank you for your eloquent and intelligent advice, Tempra.

And yes, your kids can and most likely will fear you for spanking them and will trust you more and be more secure around you if you use other methods of discipline.

What are you basing this on? Several people here have told stories that counter your statement. I will add my name to the list of people who were occasionally spanked without any adverse consequences. I trusted my parents completely and never feared them.

There is a very large difference between spanking out of anger or lack of self control and spanking to correct wrongful and dangerous behavior. Your statement may be true of the former, but doubtful of the latter.

Time out works wonders. It just takes more patience, discipline and sometimes creativity on the part of the parent.

My daughter, whether because of the Asperger's Syndrome or just being her, cannot abide being yelled at. It completely shuts her down and makes the situation worse rather than better. So we've successfully used other forms of discipline and now, at 14, we have an amazing relationship with our daugther because she trusts us (especially me because I learned earlier on about the yelling part than her father did).

Parenting is exhausting but hugely rewarding. The more positive you put in, the more positive you get out.

Every situation is different and there are particular circumstances to take into account when deciding the proper form of discipline. What may be best for your child may not be best for another's. I personally feel that spanking should be limited to extreme situations where a kid is either in danger himself (Lany's examples) or puts another person in danger (I.e putting a pillow over a baby's head).

[Nukelavee]

Balefont - That would be totally valid....except I literally can't think of anybody around my age who was never spanked, and who grew up to hate and fear their parent over that.

Seems like a pretty sensationalist way of looking at things. And simplistic.

This whole "inflicting pain" concept seems to equate spanking with getting caned, or a beating, and I don't remember any spanking I got actually hurting enough to matter, what mattered was the knowledge I had overstepped so far that I had forced my parents to carry thru on the threat.

On the other hand....I'm not certain about the message conveyed by letting a toddler scream for 45 minutes in a store. I'm sorry, Lyanna, it shows a concern for your offspring that IS admirable, but a total lack of concern for anybody else who had to deal with it.

I stood in line at a Tim Hortons one day, while a parent behind me "tried reasoning" with their petulant brat, who decided to start kicking me in the ankle, repeatedly. After the Dad gave up making the 6 year old stop, I told the kid, repeatedly, to cut it out. What I got was "You can't make me!".

So I told the kid, while looking at Dad "Well, next time you kick me...I'm kicking your Dad". Because I can't blame that behaviour on the child, that's the parent's fault.

BTW, Dad blushed, and hauled the kid outa line.

So - if you don't like spanking, or otherwise forcing a child to behave, that's your right. But if you regularly deal with 45 minute screaming Titanic parodies, seriously, rethink what you are doing.

[Balefont]

What are you basing this on? Several people here have told stories that counter your statement. I will add my name to the list of people who were occasionally spanked without any adverse consequences. I trusted my parents completely and never feared them.

I was spanked earlier on in my childhood and in those moments the fear and horror I felt towards my parents was the most horrendous and heartbreaking feeling I can recall ever experiencing in my life. Yes, I'm well adjusted and I love my parents as much as I love my child (and husband most of the time :P) and there is no "lasting damage". However, I do not ever want my child to ever have to feel that way about me.

Every situation is different

Duh.

and there are particular circumstances to take into account when deciding the proper form of discipline.

Very true. Yet that does not logically lead to hitting being acceptable or the best form of discipline in any circumstances save Lany's extreme examples.

What may be best for your child may not be best for another's.

Indeed.

I personally feel that spanking should be limited to extreme situations where a kid is either in danger himself (Lany's examples)

And lo and behold, we fucking agree on something.

or puts another person in danger (I.e putting a pillow over a baby's head).

I still think hitting is would not be the most appropriate way of handling such a situation, but whatevs.

Balefont - That would be totally valid....except I literally can't think of anybody around my age who was never spanked, and who grew up to hate and fear their parent over that.

Seems like a pretty sensationalist way of looking at things. And simplistic.

See above.

[Balefont]

PS I used the example of my daughter to show that even raising one's voice didn't work for her so we had to get more creative. You know, to show how every case is indeed different.

Nuk, you don't know Lyanna's situation so you shouldn't judge. She may not have had any other opportunity to do the shopping she had to do and there is no reasoning with a 2.5 year old. Sometimes, the only thing you can do is grin and bear it in stoic silence lest the child feels even more empowered by their bad behavior.

[Eyron]

If parents choose alternatives to spanking for discipline, all the power to them. But honestly, this whole feeling safe thing? Really? I fear people go too far the other way sometimes. Spanking is not hitting is not abuse. Really.

And as a child who was spanked, I can tell you I didn't then turn around and spank my younger sisters when they were bad. Nor did I hit my friends or strangers when they were bad or made me angry. And I certainly didn't live in fear in my home. And I'm betting many of the people on this very board who were spanked can tell you the same thing.

I'm not sure you and I have the same definiton on spanking. Grabbing an arm or holding still or pulling your child from danger is not the same as spanking to me, and the former are perfectly fine. As far as I know spanking involves deliberately inflicting pain, like a slap, and is not done to prevent immediate danger or get your child's attention. It's physical punishment for bad behaviour and it is that part I don't agree with.

I know far from all children who are spanked turn to hurt others, many children who are beaten don't do that either, and that some who never were spanked do. But not all children can see the difference between being punished and just hurting someone as clearly as you did. I knew a kid I believe had such problems when I was a child, and I know he was physically disciplined by his parents. I don't know how they did it and I don't remember seing bruises on him so I don't know to what extent. And of course I don't know if he would have been just as violent if they had not, but as soon as he was independant from them he changed for the better. In any case he grew up thinking that he was justified in hurting others when they made him angry, and we were in the same class at school for nine years so I saw him hurting many children during in that time, including myself at one point.

Where I live all kinds of physical punishment towards children is against the law, so it's not the norm here. Myself and my brothers were never spanked and of my friends very few were, and we turned out ok too. Judging by you and me either way works, but that does not say much about the general population. My opinion is that one can bring up a child without spanking and it will turn out just as fine.

[Nukelavee]

But, that's a personal, subjective reasoning. And totally valid, for you.

My experience is totally not that. What do I remember? The feeling of guild and shame I had, looking at the disappointment and pain in my father's eyes.

I definately have issues with my father...but it had way more to do with things like finding everything I owned sitting in the driveway one night with a note saying "time to move out' the month I finished college.

The spanking I learned from, the rest? That's taken 20 years for my parents and I to get past.

edit -

Balefont - Actually, yeah, that is a situation onlookers can judge - It's not about her relationship with her child, it's about how that affects everybody in that store who wasn't them. I have a small dog, and I've made it a mission to ensure her life is as close to doggie heaven on Earth as I can manage, but if she barks to the point it bothers the neighbours...yeah, they get to judge, and I HAVE to take action, because it isn't about me and my dog at that point, it's about everrybody else being bothered by it.

If it was a child upstairs stomping loud enough to bother people below for 45 minutes.....what? Tell them, srry, it's the only time I have for "x", and she's a strong willed little girl? That's inconsiderate, and not doing the child any favours.

Like I said - Not going to advise anybody on how to raise their children, but, please, use a method that actually works.

[Galactus]

I should note that it's not really an issue here: Beating children is illegal. Period.

Barn har rätt till omvårdnad, trygghet och en god fostran. Barn skall behandlas med aktning för sin person och egenart och får inte utsättas för kroppslig bestraffning eller annan kränkande behandling.

"Children have a right to care, safety and a good upbringing. Children shall be treated with respect for their person and uniqueness and may not be the subject of corporeal punishment or other degrading treatment."

[Lord O' Bones]

The last time this was discussed on the board things did not end well. Just saying'.

I don't know. During the last thread, or the one before that maybe (or the one before that), I actually changed my mind about this.

puts another person in danger (I.e putting a pillow over a baby's head).

I'm so glad both my mom and little sister have forgiven me for that.

[kungtotte]

You know as well as I do that Sweden is a socialist hell-hole, Galactus, and this is just another example of the depravity of our Big Brother nanny-state.

[Ormond]

I should note that it's not really an issue here: Beating children is illegal. Period.

"Children have a right to care, safety and a good upbringing. Children shall be treated with respect for their person and uniqueness and may not be the subject of corporeal punishment or other degrading treatment."

Yes, there are a lot of big cross-cultural differences on this one.

In the USA, on the other hand, it's often been stated that objecting to physical punishment of children is often effectively being racist, because African-American culture tends to be much more in favor of corporal punishment that White American culture is.

[Balefont]

Nuk, if I had a child who was having a "bad day" I probably wouldn't choose to take said child out in public if I had a choice. Believe me, I'd much rather wait to go shopping by myself later or go with a child who was having a good day. If a melt-down happened in a store and I had the time, I would remove my kid from the situation until he or she calms down or until I can go back by myself. However, sometimes you don't have a choice. It's not as though a parent with an unruly child enjoys sharing the experience with society.

Good for you about training your dog. We've done the same with our Boxers and received compliments from our neighbors about how well behaved they are; especially the lack of incessant barking which plagues so many other houses. And guess what? We trained our dogs by only using positive reinforcement and never punishment. And they're wonderful. Shocking. I know.

All I gotta say is those who are okay with spankings really should watch Super Nanny. You see unruly children whose parents do hit them and the spankings don't improve things and they often make things worse because the child learns to not fear their parents.

I taught my sister in law, the mother of one of the most bratty little girls with whom I've ever had the displeasure of being forced to spend time, how to do time outs rather than spanking and, holy shit, my niece behaves 100% better than she did with the spanking technique. I had to convince my sister in law and then prove it worked before she changed her methods but she did and viola.

But again, whatevs. I'm not a spanker and you'll never convince me to be a spanker. I will always consider spanking lazy parenting.

[Minaku]

As a parent, I have not ruled out spankings from the list of disciplinary measures available to me. However, it is very, very low on that list.

I've seen how my kid reacts to an angry tone of voice (for example, yesterday when he was supposed to be taking a nap, I found him opening the closet door to get the cat toys out) and I know that if I hit him, there would be a breach of trust and I would never get that trust back. He's two. That's too young.

[Ixodes]

PS I used the example of my daughter to show that even raising one's voice didn't work for her so we had to get more creative. You know, to show how every case is indeed different.

You don't know Lyanna's situation so you shouldn't judge. She may not have had any other opportunity to do the shopping she had to do and there is no reasoning with a 2.5 year old. Sometimes, the only thing you can do is grin and bear it in stoic silence lest the child feels even more empowered by their bad behavior.

For a thread like this everyone should re-read this post by Balefront before offering their opinion. Regardless of your life experiences, passing judgment on another person's parenting without knowing the situation is a fucked up thing to do.

[Galactus]

Yes, there are a lot of big cross-cultural differences on this one.

In the USA, on the other hand, it's often been stated that objecting to physical punishment of children is often effectively being racist, because African-American culture tends to be much more in favor of corporal punishment that White American culture is.

I still remember a story about Astrid Lindgren, where a german kid took his sister on a train and managed to get to Sweden because he'd read in one of her books that parents weren't allowed to beat their children there.

[Minaku]

I should note that I was raised in the old-country way and had more than my fair share of beatings when I was growing up. Beatings, not spankings. The relationship between my mother and me was one of fear. She hit me until I was 14.

I do not intend to have that relationship with my son, which is why spanking is just about at the bottom of actions I would consider for disciplinary measures.

[RaceBannon42]

I dont have kids, but I know I pulled plenty of shit as a kid that deserved a spanking.

Beating your child? Not ok.

Disciplinging your child? Needed.

Spanking can be an effective form of discipline.

[IheartTesla]

How about a less inflammatory thread title, eh? Hitting a child raises my hackles since I now associate spanking with hitting, and parents who spank probably don't want their disciplinary methods to be equated with hitting as well.

Even though I don't agree in general with spanking, I have to say a swat on the fanny sounds better to than all this talk of belts and rulers and canes. Anything that takes away contact, i.e, increases the distance between you and the object of your displeasure cant be a good idea.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

I was spanked precisely twice as a child. Once, I was around three and I almost ran in front of an ice cream truck. My mother fortunately pulled me back in time - she says it was a close thing - and popped me on the behind (once). She says she was mortified and horribly guilty, but it was sort of instinct. The second time I was a little older and I tried to choke my sister. I think my sister was spanked once or twice - same sort of reason.

It's personally at the very, very, very bottom of my disciplinary toolbox, but for danger situations, like Lany was describing, I don't rule it out.