Hitting your kid...

[C S]

I disagree. Lets take the work place as one example. Some options for correction.

1. explain the consiquences of the action- works for child and adult.

2. Threaten to take something away if correction isnt made- Toy/hours or bonus possibility

3. Time out- Time out/suspension from work.

The range of the corrections changes, but the thought stays the same. Violence needed for any- None.

1) Yeah, I specifically covered that one in my post. Certainly should almost always be the first option but sometimes it is necessary to escalate on repeat offenders.

2) Not comparable - Taking away an item from a child under your supervision is legal. Taking away an item from an adult is theft in almost all cases. You can only take away hours from an employee that they haven't worked, so employee doesn't possess them yet. Same is true with a bonus they haven't been given. Literally taking away either after they have already been paid is theft (exception if employee obtained either fradulently).

3) Not comparable - Time out for a child is restraint by force (physical or implied). This is kidnapping, if an adult. Suspension of an adult is a refusal to permit entry. Adult is not restrained in any way. It's worth mentioning that a parent not allowing their child entry for any noteworthy amount of time might be guilty of neglect.

Bottom line is that no power structure between adults in a free society is comparable to that of a guardian and a child, so very little determination of what is acceptable can be made by comparing the two.

Edited for clarity

[Ken Stone]

There are a few positives to spanking:

1) It's easy.

2) It's quick.

When all is said and done spanking won't probably won't have a lasting negative effect on your child. However it could very well have a negative lasting effect on the relationship you have with your adult child. It seems to me like many people who were physically corrected as children don't have the greatest relationship with their parents when they become adults. If you take a long term view, and hope to have a loving, fulfilling, life-long relationship with your children, then spanking pretty quickly becomes counter-productive. If you take the short term view where you just want to end the bad behavior right now then yeah, spank early and often.

[Serious Callers Only]

kids are little sociopaths. hitting them just confirms the worldview

[Nukelavee]

Because, a beating is all about anger.

But a spanking is punishment, and, actualy, we DO do it to adults in a lot of places. And, most primates give kids a swat to teach them. It's pretty hardwired on both giving and recieving. There's an explained cause and effect, sometimes even a trial(by the way, bribing a witness does not work if she's 5). Then, the spanking, which never seemed important compared to knowing how badly you had fucked up. (I knew Mamie wouldn't keep her mouth shut, but, it was all i had).

Much different effect on me than, say, getting a beating from a hockey player in high school.

[Balefont]

The last time this was discussed on the board things did not end well. Just saying'.

[Sci-2]

Yeah, I think there is a huge difference between spanking and abuse. But I think in cases of spanking you are trying to enforce a behavior by physical punishment rather than trying to get to the root of why the child acted like that in the first place.

Really, rules and punishments should be set beforehand, and once a rule is broken you should ask the child why they acted the way they did - what they were feeling. Now, there is still a punishment because discipline is important.

Anywho, most of that comes from working with kids at schools and not parenting so I'm willing to conceed I'm off base.

[Verboten]

Why is this an issue? People spank their kids, or give them a swat on the ear, it's not nearly the same or even comparable to child abuse. Spank them, let them calm down and then explain why you meted out punishment in that manner. I don't see a problem with this. I was spanked as a child and I would not classify it as abuse. Not even remotely similar.

[peterbound]

The last time this was discussed on the board things did not end well. Just saying'.

This

[SkynJay]

Ya, the more I think about it, the more I realize why I typically stay out of the general chatter debates. I am out while the conversation is still civil.

[Res ipsa loquitur]

Spanking is not abuse. And no, its not OK to spank adults as a corrective measure because we interact with adults in a whole other manner than how we interact with kids. Adults, in theory anyhow, can communicate and interact on an equal level. Kids below a certain age can not. So, I can well understand a parent spanking when other measures of disipline fail.

However, hits or "swats" to the head should never be used...research is finding that even mild head trauma repeated over time can have deleterious effects.

[Relic]

If inflicting pain on a child is your best method of teaching them a lesson you should probably not have any more kids.

[Galactus]

Why is this an issue? People spank their kids, or give them a swat on the ear, it's not nearly the same or even comparable to child abuse. Spank them, let them calm down and then explain why you meted out punishment in that manner. I don't see a problem with this. I was spanked as a child and I would not classify it as abuse. Not even remotely similar.

Except for the fact that it's both deliberately inflicting pain on children.

[The Warmth of Winter]

Why is this an issue? People spank their kids, or give them a swat on the ear, it's not nearly the same or even comparable to child abuse. Spank them, let them calm down and then explain why you meted out punishment in that manner. I don't see a problem with this. I was spanked as a child and I would not classify it as abuse. Not even remotely similar.

Just becasue it's not similar doesn't necessarily mean it's OK to give you child a swat or spanking (when used as punishment. I agree with Ser Lany Cassandra's post on p.1). You physically hurt (even if just a little bit) a helpless individual incapable of understanding why they're hit and without the ability to completely take responsibility for their actions. Even if people don't necessarily grow up to be a violent person, hitting/swatting a child violates their integrity and teaches them the wrong morals.

Beating is a way of condemning the children themselves instead of condemning their actions, which I reckon is the way to go.

Hell, even if you take away all the possible negative effects on children, even if nothing bad could be proved to happen to a child I'd be very reluctant to do it since the action feels wrong in and of itself.

[Lyanna Stark]

Why is this an issue? People spank their kids, or give them a swat on the ear, it's not nearly the same or even comparable to child abuse. Spank them, let them calm down and then explain why you meted out punishment in that manner. I don't see a problem with this. I was spanked as a child and I would not classify it as abuse. Not even remotely similar.

Errh, I can only assume you do not have kids?

I can not IMAGINE meting out physical punishment for my daughter for anything. What sort of a complete arsewipe would I be to plan a beating of my own child??? The whole thought is just so extremely abhorrent to me

Like Lany said, if they are about to touch the hot stove and you smack their hand so they don't touch it, that's one thing. Same as you would throw yourself into a roll with the kid to avoid it being hit by a moving car. even if that ended up not being particularly comfortable to the child. Still, that is done to save the child from further hurt or pain. To plan infliction of pain however, even as a corrective measure, is something completely different.

My daughter is an extremely strong willed 2.5 year old, and by extremely, I mean that the nursery staff and all our relatives are commenting on it and going 0.o. She has fits of rage, she has tantrums, she is often very disobedient (mildly put). I spent my Christmas grocery shop with her as a Titanic figurehead standing in my trolley (only way I could even move her, as she would not sit in the designated child seat, nor walk on her own) bawling at the top of her lungs for 45 minutes straight with the masses of christmas shoppers scattering before us.

(She had been fed, watered and rested beforehand, we just had a disagreement and she can't tolerate that). Yet I did not smack her, nor would there have been any point in doing so since the benefits would have been nil. Should I then, according to your logic, slap her around when I get home? It might have meted out a punishment for her actions and disobedience, but to what end?

Children aren't stupid. If you consequently keep explaining things and always setting limits in the same way, they will rebel a lot but eventually accept that you are the boss and that this is how far they can go and no further. Without the need for violence. Even my rebellious two year old does eventually come around. It just takes longer and more patience and more exasperated ranting on my part.***

Basically, other methods achieve similar or better results than spanking or as you put it "swatting" (btw you should never EVER try and hit a child in the head, EVER, including swatting). Other methods also make you feel less of a useless swine as a parent, as it happens.

*** I do not claim to be a perfect parent. In fact, I often consider myself relegated to the poor parents room, since I don't do a lot of things parents are "supposed to" (I am constantly guilty of not colour coordinating her clothing, for one. I also don't force her to eat vegetables at dinner is she does not want them.) and I do some things that other parents probably don't (like telling her I dislike teletubbies, or having her learn names of dinosaurs or computer game characters instead of something more "character building"). I rarely judge other people's parenting apart from on two things: a. don't hit your kid b. don't feed your kids shite. I firmly believe kids can recover from most things and they are fairly resourceful, but those two I feel are both bad for the parents and the kids.

[john]

I spent my Christmas grocery shop with her as a Titanic figurehead standing in my trolley (only way I could even move her, as she would not sit in the designated child seat, nor walk on her own) bawling at the top of her lungs for 45 minutes straight with the masses of christmas shoppers scattering before us.

This is an awe-inspiring image. :eek:

[S John]

I got the belt from my old man a few times. I don't really remember being spanked frequently, but I remember that an ass whipping was not off the menu when I misbehaved. When I was a bit older a slap across the head was not out of the question in response to a smart-ass comment.

Do I feel like I was abused as a child? Not in the least. I laugh about it now, not stew over the injustice.

Will I mete out physical punishment to my own kids? I don't know, I doubt it. But times have changed, y'know. As far as I remember there wasn't a single kid in my neighborhood who didn't get at least take a swat to their ass from time to time. But then again, this was 1980's West Virginia which is likely one of those places that was a couple years behind the old "don't kick your kids' asses" fancy-pants parenting techniques taking root elsewhere in the western world. :P

Maybe there are more enlightened ways of doing things, but if my mom or dad told me they were going to kick my ass if I didn't stop doing x,y, or z .... I fuckin' stopped doing it. :lol:

[paddington]

I got the cane twice at school, it hurt, an was pretty humilating. Although I never commited the same offenses again.

Was never hit by my parents though, going to bed without any dinner was plenty enough to keep me in line. That an being told I'd have to sleep in the attic.

[Greywolf2375]

2 year old reaches for the hot stove top top/fire place/outlet. A quick slap on the back of their hand and they pull away without seriously hurting themselves. You then try to explain to the kid that it would hurt to do that. (not that kids understand a lot) Not abuse.

Kid runs to the road, a quick smack on the bottom to get their attention. Then talk to them. Not abuse.

Kid breaks something and you are pissed and you hit them---even spanking at this point---is wrong.

Children should never be hit because YOU are angry or embarassed.

Exactly this. A spank should never be the first line of education or punishment, but it has been used quite successfully when applied at the right itme for a valid reason.

[Slurms McKenzie]

Hmm I don't know.... :unsure: ....there's a very fine line...sometimes it might be called for in some circumstances........but my dad used to spank me whenever I acted up, and I sure as hell didn't like it....you don't want to be the parent that just gets shipped in to punish a child every now and then.........it'll cause resentment...I mean I turned out fine, fully functioning individual but I don't have the best relationship with my dad...mind you I have plenty of other reasons except the spanking, so it was by no means the only reason for our strained relationship....but I hardly ever talked to him growing up, he was just the authority guy....and really you don't want to be that guy at the end of the day do you? :huh:

[Balefont]

I'd prefer to have my child trust me than fear me.