Has Varys always known Jon Snow's parents are R and L? (spoiler)

[ckal]

Will Jon meet Aegon and Dany at KL and decide amongst them how to rule or will they fight ech other?

This is a scene that will never happen.

[sarah.jenice]

One of the things about this theory that bothers me is that it banks on Ned and Jon both being willing to desert the Night's Watch to put Jon on the throne. I already feel like that will be a momentous and difficult decision for Jon that he will probably only make because of his attempted assassination, but I can never see honorable Ned Stark deserting. Ever. For any reason.

[PWT3]

Doomed Rhaegar and Lyanna and "stupid" Ned Stark will win the series, in Jon. Everyone all series thought Ned was a noble moron, but Jon will turn out to have been completely hidden from Varys, Littlefinger, Robert, et al.

[Lord_Tyrell]

I think Varys was being truthful when he told Kevan his intentions. He had no reason to lie since Kevan was soon to be dead. He places Rhaegar on a pedestal and will do anything to help House Targaryen return to power.

Varys' strategy seems to be to have many sticks in the fire and one of them will pan out. He is not a micro-manager. The events in ASOIAF are too complex to micro-manage but they can be massaged and guided by a master manipulator like Varys.

Varys seems to go to gret lengths to Perdue Cersei not to kill Ned, it seems because he wants Ned to play a role in helping Jon. Visery's got khal droog. Jon was supposed to get Ned Stark.

Varys' little birds were around him, so he had reason to lie. I think Varys acts really kind in front of even the people he's closest to, but he's really full of shit.

[PWT3]

One of the things about this theory that bothers me is that it banks on Ned and Jon both being willing to desert the Night's Watch to put Jon on the throne. I already feel like that will be a momentous and difficult decision for Jon that he will probably only make because of his attempted assassination, but I can never see honorable Ned Stark deserting. Ever. For any reason.

In fairness, this particular war may turn out to be one that, after it's over, the Night's Watch will have done its duty and not be needed anymore.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

If Jon is the son of Rhaegar ,Varys would definitely know . In the Sansa chapter of a Storm of Swords pg.766 Baelish to Sansa"...It is rude to pry into the origins of a man's natural children..." . The job of a spymaster is to pry into anybody secret who would threaten the stability of the realm . Varys is not as blind as Robert or honorable as Eddard .

[Faint]

Has he always known? He has never known.

[Hangover of the Morning]

Doomed Rhaegar and Lyanna and "stupid" Ned Stark will win the series, in Jon. Everyone all series thought Ned was a noble moron, but Jon will turn out to have been completely hidden from Varys, Littlefinger, Robert, et al.

I agree. One of the best ironies of the all saga, that honourable Ned Stark was able to win the Game of Thrones and fool everyone without any spying, backstabbing, murdering etc.

[The Dragons Hand]

Does anyone else find it absolute fuckin' hilarious that Ned Stark of all people could keep this from masterminds such as Littlefinger and Varys?

Because when you put it into that context it is a ray of glorious sunshine in the sea of mutilated corpses that is ASOIAF.

[The Wolves]

Does anyone else find it absolute fuckin' hilarious that Ned Stark of all people could keep this from masterminds such as Littlefinger and Varys?

Because when you put it into that context it is a ray of glorious sunshine in the sea of mutilated corpses that is ASOIAF.

Seriously I don't know how anyone could not even think of the possibility of Lyanna having a child by Rhaegar. I mean she was with him for like over a year and obviously they thought she was getting raped so how could the idea of a child coming from that not enter anyone's minds.

Anyways a lot of people in Westeros are stupid so I can kinda see why none of those masterminds thought of it.

[Hardtack]

When Honest Ned Stark says he chopped down a cherry tree and found Jon Snow under a cabbage leaf, who is going to doubt him?

Not to mention, it'd be hard for Varys to find out given there are like three or four people who knew what was up and they're all dead and/or unlikely to share the details.

[bent branch]

I think Varys either knew or strongly suspected.

[The Dragons Hand]

Seriously I don't know how anyone could not even think of the possibility of Lyanna having a child by Rhaegar. I mean she was with him for like over a year and obviously they thought she was getting raped so how could the idea of a child coming from that not enter anyone's minds.

Anyways a lot of people in Westeros are stupid so I can kinda see why none of those masterminds thought of it.

Fair point.

[the Scorpion Knight]

I'm about 95% convinced that Varys has no clue. Varys wanted Ned sent to the Wall to get him out of power but to keep him alive to prevent Robb from going to war with the Lannisters. It had absolutely nothing to do with Varys wanting Ned to help Jon build an army.

I think Dany and Aegon will almost certainly end up fighting each other but I don't see Jon getting involved in that.

i think IF varys put one ad ne together yeah he wpuld have known but imho he didn't

I think jon is one the reasons dany and aegon will clash

[aryagonnakill#2]

I believe the OP is resting on a false pretense and so I cannot answer the OP without first examining the pretense that Varys was proven to be a Targ loyalist at the end of DWD.

First of all if we take all of the evidence for Aegon being a fake out of the equation, we are still left with Varys actions and motivations. At the end of DWD Varys takes out Kevin and Pycelle so that Cersei can be put back into power and further destabilize the realm, creating a power vacuum for Aegon.

I would simply like to point out the parallel to how Varys propped up Aerys against Rhaegar. It is the same thing, an incompetent ruler who was the most likely to lead to crisi/chaos was propped up to remain in power to avoid a smarter more stable ruler from taking over and stabilizing the realm.

While people use to argue that Varys was simply being loyal to his king, we now get his actions explained in the parallel, he wasn't being loyal to Aerys, he was destabilizing the realm.

This is my take on that scene, and I hope anyone who still denies Aegon being a fake will at least consider Varys motivations and actions.

[Valyrian Lance]

I believe the OP is resting on a false pretense and so I cannot answer the OP without first examining the pretense that Varys was proven to be a Targ loyalist at the end of DWD.

First of all if we take all of the evidence for Aegon being a fake out of the equation, we are still left with Varys actions and motivations. At the end of DWD Varys takes out Kevin and Pycelle so that Cersei can be put back into power and further destabilize the realm, creating a power vacuum for Aegon.

I would simply like to point out the parallel to how Varys propped up Aerys against Rhaegar. It is the same thing, an incompetent ruler who was the most likely to lead to crisi/chaos was propped up to remain in power to avoid a smarter more stable ruler from taking over and stabilizing the realm.

While people use to argue that Varys was simply being loyal to his king, we now get his actions explained in the parallel, he wasn't being loyal to Aerys, he was destabilizing the realm.

This is my take on that scene, and I hope anyone who still denies Aegon being a fake will at least consider Varys motivations and actions.

Is it possible that Varys simply has a great self-awareness of his worth? Without chaos and enemies and the threat of civil war, a spymaster is without a job. Aerys plucked Varys out of Essos because he was distrustful of his council and his son. Varys may see this destabilization as a necessity for his power, no matter the king or regime. Just like a spider to have to tear down and rebuild his web with each change.