Ran Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Please tell me what part of the book you're referring to, because now I'm curious! Spoiler code is your friend!Never mind! Missed "second book". Have not read it yet, don't need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Hmmm...that makes me feel kind of bad for saying all that stuff about Kellhus. Don't ever feel bad about saying saying bad stuff about Kellhus, he's a doush remember?So, here is where this gets interesting - when Kalbear says that his wife said that there are more women fantasy readers than men, what was being included as fantasy there? Was Ann Rice included in that? It's not like the majority of Bakker readers are women.Agreed. Checking some of the Urban Fantasy book review forums, it's definitely not GRRM, Bakker, Abercrombie or Erikson they're turning to. I guess it comes back to how to divide it? Where does SFF end and vampire/werewolf porn start?EDIT: So apparently you guys should feel bad for me and Raidne having the wrong type of friends. OMG the emo ./wrist ./evanescence :crying: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Same. It was like watching the 60 second hacking challenge in Swordfish with my computer nerd dude friends, only with every guy on this Board. Yuck.For the record I thought this was a stupid scene, and the scene with Halle Berry's breasts was just as stupid.The sex scenes in Wise Man's Fear are so bad they didn't just make question the series but Rothfuss's talents as a writer. But then Wise Man's Fear is pretty terrible as a novel on many levels, it's made Doors of Stone a make or break thing I suspect.eta:I'm pretty sure a yorkie bar is the chocolate equivalent of a yorkie bar. Yeah, loltergeist, I didn't get this either.BTW I gave a shoutout to you on Gen-Chat in the funny/cool user name threads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I don't know how.That book really could have done without the Felurian sex BS. It was JUST HORRIBLE.I mean thatthe absolute rubbishness of the Felurian scenes detracts from and, if people are skimming it, may cause people to brush over, the Cthaeth scene and the discussion in the pub about it, which I think when taken on their own are amazing and which fall in the middle of the bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I mean thatthe absolute rubbishness of the Felurian scenes detracts from and, if people are skimming it, may cause people to brush over, the Cthaeth scene and the discussion in the pub about it, which I think when taken on their own are amazing and which fall in the middle of the bullshit.The ancient history of the world in that scene is also good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Where does SFF end and vampire/werewolf porn start?Vampire/Werewolf pron is SFF.Honestly, if it's got magic it's fantasy. If it's got unexplained or impossible tech and is set in the future it's SF. Whether it's werewolf-porn, horror, sword & sorcery or whatever doesen't matter.Whether it's any good is a separate question, but I see no need to be exclusionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emberling Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I guess it comes back to how to divide it? Where does SFF end and vampire/werewolf porn start?The end of SFF need not be the same place as the start of vampire/werewolf porn. Genres tend to be inclusive. Except where they aren't. (which would be romance and the HEA requirement, which as mentioned upthread bizarrely disqualifies Twilight unless you consider the entire series as one book) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litechick Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Oh? Would you be so kind as to share the joke, for I don't get it.Sorry Solmyr. I meant it was funny when divorced from context. Not to question your femininity but are you feminine? Do you see it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukelavee Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I must have a truly fucked social circle.I know so many women that read fantasy I actually have a hard time believing that so many of you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solmyr Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Sorry Solmyr. I meant it was funny when divorced from context. Not to question your femininity but are you feminine? Do you see it?Oh I see, now it really sounds like a joke and in the good way :). Sorry for lashing out, lately I've been having to defend some very basic concepts of mine to the boarddom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I must have a truly fucked social circle.I know so many women that read fantasy I actually have a hard time believing that so many of you don't.I know a bunch of women who read SFF occasionally, but apart from you guys none who is really a fantasy reader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Vampire/Werewolf pron is SFF.Honestly, if it's got magic it's fantasy. If it's got unexplained or impossible tech and is set in the future it's SF. Whether it's werewolf-porn, horror, sword & sorcery or whatever doesen't matter.Whether it's any good is a separate question, but I see no need to be exclusionary.The end of SFF need not be the same place as the start of vampire/werewolf porn. Genres tend to be inclusive. Except where they aren't. (which would be romance and the HEA requirement, which as mentioned upthread bizarrely disqualifies Twilight unless you consider the entire series as one book):lol:In essence, drawing a line is hard, it's easier to be inclusive, but on the other hand you have people screaming bloody murder about "ruining the genre" and what have you.Nuke,I don't know what social circles you move in, but I come from a small lower middle class town with nearly no "intellectuals" around. But we had lots of tractors. And moonshine. At Uni I ended up with the outdoorsy people on the one hand and the party people on the other, and partying hard != reading anything much, but I got to try being hung over out in the woods, so that's always something. No fantasy readers there tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I'm gonna throw this out there - if my sister wasn't already married but she said she was into a guy who was way into SFF or comics, I'd tell her to keep her guard up for some weirdo shit.And we've both read fantasy since I can remember.ETA: And like Raidne says, if she said he was into Bakker I'd tell her to be doubly on guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna Stark Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Et tu Mandy? I dunno, I always assumed that not belonging to a subculture like Metal or Goth almost automatically meant that no, people in your circle of friends won't really read Fantasy. Does this mean we are vanilla? At least I have you and Raidne for company. We can discuss the Da Vinci Code or something. ;)ETA: And like Raidne says, if she said he was into Bakker I'd tell her to be doubly on guard.Damn, poor Bakker can't catch a break today! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Yup... I missed that I think, Damn. Stupid gross Felurian whore See, now I hate that part even more on the behalf of you and anyone else who did miss the good bit. Since (looking for it specifically just now) it's actually a much shorter sequence than its place in my Wise Man's Fear headspace indicates and the rest of the Felurian foolery is much longer, I'm sure you're not the only one.Damn, poor Bakker can't catch a break today! :lol:Today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I apply the Bechdel test to fantasy often, and am usually disappointed by the results.Can I say something here about "strong female character"? Like many, I hear this term often and frankly it makes my skin crawl. Too often I find it means a character who is ostensibly female but acts in essentially masculine ways, as if being a "strong" character means being masculine. To me, a strong character is one who acts instead of being acted upon, whether that action is swordplay or sorcery or scheming.And that is another discussion that is gaining momentum at the moment. The argument that a 'strong woman' does not mean a woman that just does what male heroes always have done. But that they should be allowed to be strong in their own way as well. (and older, and not cheer-leader fit, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Ok, what kind of weirdo shit and how do you know females who like SFF aren't also into this "weirdo" stuff?Also, please tell us how often you take part in these weirdo activities yourself and post links to any pictures you might have to such activities on the internet. Lastly, please tell us what your relationship with your mother was like when you were a child.I've been surprised over the years how many fantasy fans have some really weird ideas about women, diversity, etc. That is what I meant by weird stuff.I suppose I should qualify:Into Goodkind: Red Alert! Abort!Into Bakker: Beware endless analysis and pedantic navel gazing. This guy will never respect your intelligence (my sis was econ with minors in compsci and biology), unless you majored in philosophy.Into Abercrombie: Might be funny, but also might have a higher estimation of his humor than the reality.Into Tolkien: Hope you have lots of wrinkle cream because beauty == value. Also, you can be as liberated as you want until it becomes time to settle down.Into Hal Duncan, Valente, Abraham: Keeper.ETA:Into Rothfuss: “A pedestal is as much a prison as any small, confined space.”Mom and I are pretty close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukelavee Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Lyanna - same kinda hometown, such as it was. (rural farming village). Waking up hung over in the woods....yeah, done that.There were a few girls at my public school who read a bit of fantasy (btw, this was the 70's, lol), and a few more at high school.Once I hit university and college, way more. On the other hand, well, as I've said, worked in teh game industry a while, so, yeah, that unbalances things a bit.I have a friend who has actually had a novel published. She promises it isn't "Chick-lite" urban fantasy, but I have yet to read it.**I mean, I could just ask her for a copy, but...damnit, I want the thrill of seeing a book by a friend for sale at the store, and buying the damn thing. I really should check if she wrote it under her real name, come to think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raidne Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Oh? Would you be so kind as to share the joke, for I don't get it. If I were to say: "I like playing with Barbie dolls, reading Cosmopolitan and urban fantasy novels with female protagonists, but otherwise I'm very masculine", how would you respond?I probably wouldn't say anything? Gender is an identity construct. If you think you are, you are. Who is anyone else to tell you? What if I say I feel very feminine because I like to wear a lot of red?As for The Section of Wise Man's Fear: I'm pretty sure the bafflement, squickiness and occasional contempt for that particular sequence isn't confined to just the women reading it. Which is a shame, because it frames what I think is perhaps the best individual scene in the series so far.I know. I actually totally missed it until it was referred to later on (or in this forum? I don't even remember) and I had to page through the other shit for it. Gross.I mean - Urban Fantasy. For me, this is Dresden Files. Or Mieville. I have no idea what else it would be. I am really picky about authors. I will read reviews on someone for months here before I'll read the book. At least three of you whose opinions I know I care about or who seem to like other stuff I like have to read and recommend it.I must have a truly fucked social circle.You seemingly know a lot of people who are not anything like anyone I know, nor shall they ever be. No offense?And me too, Mandy, but only senior year. Strictly Tracy Flick material before that. Anyway, so it's me, you, and Lyanna...someone go grab AG and let's take a women's (I seriously just typed girls and deleted it, fuck) SFF trip to Vegas or something. It's sparkly there. Honestly, I kind of do feel bad for not making an effort to read more women SFF writers, but I don't want to read someone's stuff just because she's female either. OTOH, I doubt the publishing houses put the same marketing in knowing 13 year old boys aren't going to buy it.I mean, people, this is really the problem - do you have kids? Listen up - you are raising sexist little boys. Do better. Everybody likes everything except boys don't like female lead characters - hell, remember the trashing Monza took in this forum? I can't even remember who I was arguing with, but I still detest you. Probably FLOW, but that's just a statistical likelihood. I wonder what a 13 year old straight boy would choose - Monza or Ringil? It's like you go about your business thinking everything is going along fine and you turn around and realize that there are bunch of little Joe Frances and Tucker Maxxes sneaking up behind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 It's like you go about your business thinking everything is going along fine and you turn around and realize that there are bunch of little Joe Frances and Tucker Maxxes sneaking up behind you.This is what I meant by warning the seester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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