[No spoilers] Oh, the embarassment!

[iheartseverus]

This thread is shaping up to be hilarious--much more fun than discussing fewer rather than less fingers.

[Lightning Lord]

Since his fingers were only shortened and not removed....he doesn't have fewer fingers, he does have less fingers.

:)

[Hear Us Roar]

Cersei gets him right back... Tyrion says some redundant line about how would like to know the kings plans and she does the same thing to him. Dont recall the exact line

[The Monkey]

Since his fingers were only shortened and not removed....he doesn't have fewer fingers, he does have less fingers.

:)

Fewer fingernails.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Whomever said that all people everywhere always speak in a grammatically-fucking-correct fashion?

Clearly not you. Whoever should have been in the nominative case in the sentence of yours I’ve quoted above, not in the oblique case that you yourself have just mistakenly used, since it is the subject of the verb said.

Here’s a pop quiz. Fill in the blanks with who or whoever if the relative pronoun needs to be in the subject case, but with either whom or whomever when it must be in the object case. I give hints.

• ___ showed up first? He showed up first.
  
• I don’t know ___ showed up first.
  
• Give it to ___ shows up first. He shows up first.
  
• That’s the girl ___ your wife likes best.
  
• Give it to ___ your wife likes best.
  
• ___ is ready? He is ready.
  
• Give it to ___ is ready.
  
• Give it to ___ you think is ready. I think he is ready.
  
• Give to ___ you think your wife likes best. Your wife likes him best.
  
• Give to ___ you think your wife thinks is ready. Your wife thinks he is ready. He is ready.
  
• ___ will win? He will win.
  
• That’s ___ will win.
  
• I don’t know ___ will win.
  
• I don’t know ___ you mean.
  
• I don’t know ___ you think will win.
  
• I know ___ wins. I know he wins.
  
• I know you like ___ wins the most. He wins the most.
  
• I know you like ___ your wife likes. Your wife likes him.
  

Believe it or else, these are all correct:

• Who showed up first? He showed up first.
  
• I don’t know who showed up first.
  
• Give it to whoever shows up first. He shows up first.
  
• That’s the girl whom your wife likes best.
  
• Give it to whomever your wife likes best.
  
• Who is ready? He is ready.
  
• Give it to whoever is ready.
  
• Give it to whoever you think is ready. I think he is ready.
  
• Give to whomever you think your wife likes best. Your wife likes him best.
  
• Give to whoever you think your wife thinks is ready. Your wife thinks he is ready. He is ready.
  
• Who will win? He will win.
  
• That’s who will win.
  
• I don’t know who will win.
  
• I don’t know whom you mean.
  
• I don’t know who you think will win.
  
• I know whoever wins. I know he wins.
  
• I know you like whoever wins the most. He wins the most.
  
• I know you like whomever your wife likes. Your wife likes him.
  

In all situations, the relative pronoun assumes the proper case it satisfies within its own dependent clause. This is just how English works. It’s always the deep structure that counts, not surface proximity. The object of Cersei’s preposition to is the entire clause whoever did it; it is not whoever alone. That would strand the clause without a subject.

It’s ok to use whoever where whomever is called for; nobody will laugh at you. But to use whomever where whoever is called for as both you and Cersei have done is utterly ridiculous, and you will be justly ridiculed. If you did not score 100% on the test questions above, NEVER try to use whom or whomever; just use who and whoever. You might be technically wrong, but you’ll never look like an idiot, so you’ll never get laughed at for it.

Cersei, though, Cersei I laugh at. She doesn’t know what she’s doing but she thinks she actually does.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Cersei gets him right back... Tyrion says some redundant line about how would like to know the kings plans and she does the same thing to him. Dont recall the exact line

It was actually Cersei complained about “plots and schemes”. Tyrion quite accurately points out that plots and schemes are the same thing, which means she’s just being redundant and prattling on inaccurately, per usual. Tyrion saw right through it.

[SerArthurHeath]

It's not really a pop quiz if you say the answers before :( I was looking forward to an actual quiz

[CrypticWeirwood]

It's not really a pop quiz if you say the answers before :( I was looking forward to an actual quiz

Edited to fix! :)

[Sphinx The Riddle]

is this really a topic? :box:

[CrypticWeirwood]

is this really a topic? :box:

Between Cersei’s blunder of “plots and schemes” that Tyrion caller her out on and Davos’s blunder of “less” that Stannis corrected with “fewer”, yes, it seemed utterly appropriate to the episode. Plus it’s yet another stupid Cersei screw-up.

[Lord of Oop North]

Clearly not you. Whoever should have been in the nominative case in the sentence of yours I’ve quoted above, not in the oblique case that you yourself have just mistakenly used, since it is the subject of the verb said.

Mistakenly? Hah. Don't be humourless :P

[iheartseverus]

Honest to god, this thread is hilarious! Because its a combination of 'WTF, who cares', and prissy nominative case priss-priss, this and that. Its like Ned Stark (get real) vs. Stannis Baratheon ( get proper). Keep it going, peeps!

[WetHair]

At this point I'm ready to give my copy of Eats, Shoots & Leaves a fifth try. Not that it will do any good. Much good?

[Lightning Lord]

Fewer fingernails.

Drat, thwarted by reality! Kind of. I mean, this is a fantasy show. With made-up people speaking made-up languages.

[Pliny]

Since his fingers were only shortened and not removed....he doesn't have fewer fingers, he does have less fingers.

:)

I chuckled. :)

And if that little grammatical misstep caused so much discomfort, how did anybody make it through the novels? How many times did a character use "they," "them," or "their" when he or she should have used a singular pronoun? Oh, the horror.

I guess I noticed that "whomever" sounded a bit off, but I was mainly noticing how beautiful Cersei's gown was. :)

[CrypticWeirwood]

And if that little grammatical misstep caused so much discomfort, how did anybody make it through the novels? How many times did a character use "they," "them," or "their" when he or she should have used a singular pronoun? Oh, the horror.

There’s nothing whatsoever wrong with someone using that word when they need it. It’s how it’s been done since well before Shakespeare’s time, and ever since. This is yet another stupid myth.

[Pliny]

There’s nothing whatsoever wrong with someone using that word when they need it. It’s how it’s been done since well before Shakespeare’s time, and ever since. This is yet another stupid myth.

Hmmm... "Stupid" seems harsh, as its usage is debatable. It is not generally accepted in scholarly writing, even though it is quite common in speech and more casual kinds of writing. Maybe you couldn't tell that I was only bringing it up as a little joke. I'm sure you didn't intend to sound mean, right? It's difficult to tell in text. :)

It reminds me a bit of the use by Americans of the phrase "I could care less," when other English-speakers more often say "I couldn't care less" (which makes sense). I'm American and I'm not sure where the "not" went for us. I noticed that Jaime Lannister used "our" version in the show. Oh well. :dunno:

I saw you talked a bit about Cersei's grammatical misstep in another thread as well as in this one. I mentioned that it sounded a bit clumsy, but I didn't give it much thought. What I mean to say is, as it passed through my ears I thought, "ooh, 'whomever,' sounds off-I suppose it must be dative? As in 'to whomever did it: super great job.' I'm sure the writers know what they're doing. Wow, I wish I had Cersei's closet!" Anyway, what I mean to say is it was a good catch by you. Everybody can tell you are very educated, and that is something to be proud of. I'm sure you don't mean to, and that you are just proud of your grammatical skill, but you might tone down your rhetoric a bit, as it sounds, at times, as though you think those who don't understand right away are stupid. (I know that last sentence sounds a bit clumsy, but I really don't want to come off as too critical.)

Have a nice evening!