[TWoW Spoilers] Theon I, Part 5

[The Killer Snark]

Knowing his previous for moral resolution and good decision, wouldn't this make him a Bran Flake? Badaboom. Worst pun ever in the forum. Could not resist.

[sashas89]

He can't be dead for long. We have no other POV at the wall. Mel's chapter seems to be just a one-off we're getting too much more of.

While I don't think Jon is dead, his death does serve a purpose: it pits the wildlings against the Night Watch. The wildlings were obviously fond of Jon, and the Night Watch wasn't fond of the wildlings. When the wildlings find out that the Night Watch has killed its own LC, I think there's going to be a little war of sorts between the two sides.

And guess what happens when everybody at the wall dies?

The Others get a free ride across the wall.

Jon's death could serve just this one purpose: to undermine the NW and get the Others to the..well...other side.

Of course, all this could happen even while Jon is in a coma or warging into Ghost, which means he doesn't have to die.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Jon had a prophetic dream where he saw himself standing on the wall, fighting the Wights as they came at them, so I don't think they'll suddenly come when Jon is inconvenienced. Jon won't be out too long.

Also, the actions of a few might not mean all brothers were behind them, so there's no guarantee for a straight-out war at the wall. Also, it's only one castle that's affected.

[bemused]

badaboom..Chack! :D

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Jon had a prophetic dream where he saw himself standing on the wall, fighting the Wights as they came at them, so I don't think they'll suddenly come when Jon is inconvenienced. Jon won't be out too long.

Also, the actions of a few might not mean all brothers were behind them, so there's no guarantee for a straight-out war at the wall. Also, it's only one castle that's affected.

Yeah Jon will not be out for long!! Some ppl are saying he will be out the whole book. I say 1 chapter as Ghost tops.

[aryagonnakill]

Yeah Jon will not be out for long!! Some ppl are saying he will be out the whole book. I say 1 chapter as Ghost tops.

I'm thinking we will get resolution on everything else we got left hanging on before Jon, and then as you say we will get a ghost chapter, altho I could see having 2.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I'm thinking we will get resolution on everything else we got left hanging on before Jon, and then as you say we will get a ghost chapter, altho I could see having 2.

yeah that's probably true. It would be cool if he opened with the winterfell battle then went straight to Mereen/ Dany then to Jon/Ghost :)

[Spaßvogel]

I have only dipped into this thread a little but, but I have been re-reading ADWD lately, and in the second to last Theon chapter (I think), Roose has a parchment and is arguing with Ramsay. This makes me believe that he has received a raven from a turncoat at the Wall who has informed about Jon's actions...the plan with Mance, and other details necessary for Ramsay to write his letter.

Although many of the other theories on the letter, i.e., that it is written after an elaborate ruse by Stannis/Manderly/etc make sense as well, hehe.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I have only dipped into this thread a little but, but I have been re-reading ADWD lately, and in the second to last Theon chapter (I think), Roose has a parchment and is arguing with Ramsay. This makes me believe that he has received a raven from a turncoat at the Wall who has informed about Jon's actions...the plan with Mance, and other details necessary for Ramsay to write his letter.

Although many of the other theories on the letter, i.e., that it is written after an elaborate ruse by Stannis/Manderly/etc make sense as well, hehe.

'

Wow! I never put that together before. I'll have to reread that chapter this week. Sounds like it could be very true. So could that mean people at the wall are taking orders from the Boltons? Could Bowen Marsh have been following orders? is that why he was crying?

[Ghost's Shadow]

Who's tending to the ravens? Clydas?

Would he not know that there's a raven from Winterfell missing?

Perhaps he knew, and didn't tell Jon. Is the murder wider spread, like it was with Chett and co?

(Pure spec, haven't actually read that book yet.)

[bemused]

It's pretty obvious that the raven is the one the maester confesses to sending from Stannis' camp , containing the map of Stannis' location. That's when Roose announces that Stannis is not three days away.

Roose and Ramsay were already arguing before it arrived.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Yeah, that came to me later, too. :bang: :blushing:

[Manderlay]

I have only dipped into this thread a little but, but I have been re-reading ADWD lately, and in the second to last Theon chapter (I think), Roose has a parchment and is arguing with Ramsay. This makes me believe that he has received a raven from a turncoat at the Wall who has informed about Jon's actions...the plan with Mance, and other details necessary for Ramsay to write his letter.

Although many of the other theories on the letter, i.e., that it is written after an elaborate ruse by Stannis/Manderly/etc make sense as well, hehe.

Clydus keeps the ravens at the wall, there is no one else to send letters from the wall using ravens at castle black, and clydus is faithful to Jon, he wont sent a letter without his knowledge.

[mushroomshirt]

For me, the letter is "forged" or written after Stannis' fake death for a simple reason: if the letter were to be true, we already know what will happen in the first 100 odd pages of WoW in ADwD itself.

How big a spoiler is that? That's just extremely poor, shoddy writing, the kind GRRM would never succumb to.

Why would you read a 100 pages of descriptions of war preparations, battle strategy, and political moves if you already knew which way the battle would turn? It's writing that serves no purpose if we know that Stannis has to die at the battle anyway.

If the letter is actually true, then I would lose faith in GRRM as a writer and give up on the series altogether.

I agree. In fact I think GRRM agrees. He basically tells us that the letter is at least partially fake in this interview.

INTERVIEWER: I also wasn’t sure whether Ramsay was telling the truth in his letter when he said the battle had already been fought and won, whether we were supposed to take that as gospel.

GRRM: My readers should know better than to take anything as gospel, unless they see it for themselves, and even then I do sometimes use “unreliable narrator.” No. They should not take that as the truth. What about Mance Rayder, did you think he was really dead?

[AegonSnow]

what if the letter were an elaborate roose by Stannis to try and get reinforcements from the Wall, led by Jon Snow?

[bemused]

I think the letter was written by Stannis , but not for reinforcements in the battle. No time to get there.

[A Man Has Said]

I suppose it's possible, but even if Theon admits that, I would see Stannis keeping him close so that Theon could testify to the truth to bolster the legitimacy of Rickon's claim until Rickon is produced. Any other way, I would just see the Northmen following Stannis revolting if Stannis allowed Theon to escape justice. Remember, his only crime wasn't the killing of Bran and Rickon...he sacked Winterfell before any of that, and paved the way for the tender mercies of the Boltons.

But technically Theon is NOT a turncloak. He was a ward of the Starks, a hostage in fact, he hadn't sworn allegiance to them.

Whereas Roose Bolton HAD! He was a Stark bannerman, and that oath of fealty applied to Ramsay as well, bastard or not.

Whether any of that would cut any mustard with Stannis or the Northmen I wouldn't know.

[hallam]

That's a good point! I have been thinking the letter was fake anyway. Ramsay is just trying to get Jon off the wall, because he thinks Winterfell is impenetrable. But Jon is going to take Wun-Wun down there to rip the gate right off its hinges and thus take back WF, since a lot of Ramsay's forces will be gone to meet Stannis.

The letter is obviously fake, we are told so. The opening word is 'Bastard' and the letter purports to have come from Ramsay Snow/Bolton who kills men for using that word in his presence. Ergo the letter is fake. This is known.

But I agree that the news that Jon is 'dead' is likely to reach Bravos although, there are actually two links to the Iron bank. One is the banker sent to meet Stannis, the other is the master of coin sent out from Kings Landing.

Arya is only going to cross the sea to avenge Jon's death though. Which means that one or the other Bolton has to survive and Stannis has to die.

[Harold II]

I think the letter isn't written by Stannis or Roose or Ramsay.

I think a desperate Theon may have written it. Or maybe Asha after speaking with Theon.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Can Theon hold something in his hand to write with, though?