[Spoiler]Do you all hate Bran?

[Eddward Stark]

Bran chapters happen so rarely now that seeing one is a real treat, and I'm hoping the next two books will fully realize his potential. BRAN THE REBUILDER!

^ I love it.

This thread is a nice treat.

[lojzelote]

Bran is my second favourite character and his chapters don´t bore me at all. I love the magic and mythology of Westeros just as much as its political matters. Bran is an adorable and kid if somewhat disturbing due to the misuse of his skinchanging abilities. I´m really interested in his story, but I suspect it won´t have a happy end, or at leat not the Hollywood style happy end.

Also, it´s Bran the Buider, but Rickon the Rebuider. :cool4:

[Smartell]

I love Sansa, but Bran is my favourite character. The prospect of the Reed's not being in the show makes me foam at the mouth in anger.

But in terms of the whole King in the North thing... Bran's on a different wavelength these days. He's beyond that. He's practically a God now.

[BlueDragon]

Personally, I get more excited about Bran chapters than any others! I always flip through the book I'm reading to see how long it'll be before the next Bran chapter comes. I was really, really surprised to see that not everyone feels this way about Bran, a character whom GRRM clearly intended to be a protagonist -- one who we're all supposed to want to root for. (And I'm even more surprised that so many people actually like some of the crueler characters, which bothers me deep down. You're supposed to be repulsed by certain characters, not excited about them.)

Precisely correct. Literature is meant to teach us how to live a decent life, not how to root for the villian. But neither should we perceive the villian in a one dimensional way.

I was quite shocked to see the Dany hating but even more shocked about the Sansa/Dog shippers. Some people are actually fantasizing rape and child abuse in a big way in that particular case. Not that there isn't plenty of rape and child abuse everywhere in the books. We can feel sympathy for Sandor's case once we know what happened to him as a child, but that does not sanction his creepy obsession with Sansa.

If a work of fiction does not reinforce morality and ethics, it really has no redeeming social value. Worse it damages its culture.

For me, "story," the telling of it, is a deeply spiritual act.

Which bring me to ask the question: if you don't like fantasy/mysticism, why are you reading it?

Clearly the books are solidly within a fantasy framework in which magic in the form of dragons, direwolves, weirwoods, etc., etc. are IMPORTANT. If you don't like this sort of stuff, why not move on to reading something else? This is an honest question.

[FuzzyJAM]

Precisely correct. Literature is meant to teach us how to live a decent life, not how to root for the villian. But neither should we perceive the villian in a one dimensional way.

I was quite shocked to see the Dany hating but even more shocked about the Sansa/Dog shippers. Some people are actually fantasizing rape and child abuse in a big way in that particular case. Not that there isn't plenty of rape and child abuse everywhere in the books. We can feel sympathy for Sandor's case once we know what happened to him as a child, but that does not sanction his creepy obsession with Sansa.

If a work of fiction does not reinforce morality and ethics, it really has no redeeming social value. Worse it damages its culture.

For me, "story," the telling of it, is a deeply spiritual act.

Which bring me to ask the question: if you don't like fantasy/mysticism, why are you reading it?

Clearly the books are solidly within a fantasy framework in which magic in the form of dragons, direwolves, weirwoods, etc., etc. are IMPORTANT. If you don't like this sort of stuff, why not move on to reading something else? This is an honest question.

"Spiritual act"? What? As an atheist who thinks any "spiritual" idea is just superstition I don't see why that means I can't enjoy exploring fantasy, in much the same way I enjoy other forms of literature. Fantasy allows the exploration of humanity in situation which, by definition, simply cannot exist in the real world. It offers an interesting backdrop to explore ideas. Nothing more or less.

That's my problem with Bran's chapters - instead of fantasy being the vehicle through which we explore characters and moral dilemmas, the character is the vehicle through which we explore fantasy. This is fundamentally different from every other PoV character and not at all in keeping with the rest of the book. The focus of Bran's chapters is magic, not people, and as magic isn't real, what's there to say about it? I mean, it's kind of fun in some ways, I guess - it's far closer to "normal" fantasy, which has its merits - but it's understandable that people aren't big fans of it.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

I love Sansa, but Bran is my favourite character. The prospect of the Reed's not being in the show makes me foam at the mouth in anger.

From now, until whatever season actually covers Dance, Bran and company will be walking north. They will have plenty of time to meet the Reeds.

But in terms of the whole King in the North thing... Bran's on a different wavelength these days. He's beyond that. He's practically a God now.

I just hope Martin does not choose to elide his transformation. I'm really looking forward to actually watching Bran grow into his new power, if you'll forgive the pun.

[Tumnas the Torpid]

That's my problem with Bran's chapters - instead of fantasy being the vehicle through which we explore characters and moral dilemmas, the character is the vehicle through which we explore fantasy. This is fundamentally different from every other PoV character and not at all in keeping with the rest of the book. The focus of Bran's chapters is magic, not people, and as magic isn't real, what's there to say about it? I mean, it's kind of fun in some ways, I guess - it's far closer to "normal" fantasy, which has its merits - but it's understandable that people aren't big fans of it.

I have to respectfully disagree. I think that there a plenty of big ideas bouncing around the Bran chapters. I see Bran (and also Arya) as representative of the young heroes to be found in a great deal of fantasy fiction, and the older traditions that inspire that fiction, such as the Norse Volsunga Saga. These heroes are often from special or royal lineages, and end up surviving disastrous events that nearly destroy their families/kingdoms/galactic republics in order to achieve their heroic destinies and restore peace and/or renew the dynasty.

Martin takes this trope, and keeps the magic - but then he filters it through the question, "How would this look in the real world?" In Arya's case, it means the "kindly" magical order that takes her in and trains her also happen to be a murder-cult who are brainwashing her. As for Bran, there's no real need to list all the things he's had to sacrifice, and he looks to be about to make the biggest yet. In both cases, the mysterious magical mentors are, on some level, terrifying. The implication, to me, is that arcane knowledge is somewhere beyond the bounds of sanity, and that these kids are paying a price for their ambition.

So, in Martinworld, these stereotypical young generational heroes (Arya representing the revenge-driven badasses, Bran the bright-eyed chosen ones) do not have it so easy. In fact, I think they are meant to be redolent of real-world child prodigies, who often face mental health issues in later life. Consider Bobby Fischer. The author has taken a fantasy cliche, and twisted it around by asking what would happen to actual children put into the sorts of circumstances often found in fantasy fiction.

Also, I have to say that for my money, the magic in the series is justified by the tree-dream in which Bran weeps when he realizes that he can't talk to his father, alone.

[Mark Antony]

Brans was my favorite ADWD POV, i enjoy all his chapters.

[Nymeria's]

I love that Bran never whines about his situation. If I were him, I would probably be crying in the crypts everyday about my useless legs and dreams about being a knight.

Instead, he does what he can, especially when he became Lord of Winterfell.

Bran is courageous. Ned would call him brave.

[Lady Olenna]

Strangely enough I like Bran and I like the wolf dreams. I even like Jojen with his green dreams.

His being out of the picture depends on which way the story goes really. If it becomes another Long Night Bran is suddenly no longer in the middle of nowhere but in the vanguard.

"He saw the bones of a thousand other dreamers impaled upon their points."

From way back in the beginning yet this is still one of the more interesting mysteries to me. Everything else in that dream of Bran's was actually happening so what is this? Who are these dreamers? Are they dying or are they being killed?

It's all in what you like, I find the dragons and fire magic pretty blah especially now with all the false dragons starting to pop up like weeds. Oops, wrong series. Seriously hopefully it will be just Aegon and that complaint doesn't really come from the books but this forum with all these possible hidden Targs everyone's always speculating about.

:agree:

I'm a Bran fan - love the wolf dreams and coded messages. I don't care if they are a cliche.

I find the Dany chapters, the dragons and the hidden targs boring.

I find that a lot of history is told through Brans chapters as well. However, I'm not a huge fan of the CotF (elvish folk are a little too much for me). But I do like BR and the WW's. I was hoping Bran and Meera would hook up as adults. Or someone would build the kid a wheel chair and give poor Hodor a break.

[Grip]

I find myself agreeing with Queen Cersei I, way back in post #8. I think with Bran we get certain elements, the children/third eye etc, that to me simply isnt that interesting. It feels more "fantastical" than the rest of ASOIAF and its not really something I want to read about at this stage. The same goes with most of the magic events happening in the series, for example the dragons. Though I dont really know what other path that Martin could have taken with a crippled boy. So I dont hate Bran, not at all, but I simply find his chapters that interesting besides giving some historical background details etc.

[Silver Spearwife]

I like Bran. He's a cool character, likeable, and I think that the children-fantasy thing is very intriguing.

Here's my problem:

AGoT: Bran is crippled. Has some warg dreams.

ACoK: Some very important things, but very little that wasn't easily covered by Theon.

ASoS: Crosses the Wall. More exploring warg potential.

AFfC: Um...Sam mentions him once.

ADwD: Three chapters that start to unlock all of that fascinating potential I'd waited four books for. Only three of them.

It's just... *sigh* I've been waiting so long to see where it was that Bran's story was going. It's taking so damn long to get there.

[Vympel]

or neglect the fact that he is in FACT the true King of the North since Robb died.

Jon is Robb's successor, not Bran.

[ShadowRaven]

I'm so glad that so many of you think he is a splendid character! I really like Bran and basically rage inside when I see so many threads claiming things of who will be the next king and all, while Bran is definitely still in the picture.

Someone in this thread said Bran was one of the main protagonists, love that idea!

[Jamie Lannister]

Hate is a strong word. He bores me quite a bit (particularly on rereads), but I don't hate him per se. I loved him in CoK.

[ShadowRaven]

Jon is Robb's successor, not Bran.

Jon: So Robb wrote me as his successor because our other brothers had been killed and our sisters gone/imprisoned?

Random: Yeah totally!

Bran: Hey Rickon and me are still alive!

Jon: Oh, deals off, love my brother too much to steal his rights as King in the North.

Need I say more?

[Bushido]

I love Bran,and his storyarc is the most intriguing piece the books.

Not loving Bran means not loving North...

[Vympel]

Jon: So Robb wrote me as his successor because our other brothers had been killed and our sisters gone/imprisoned?

Random: Yeah totally!

Bran: Hey Rickon and me are still alive!

Jon: Oh, deals off, love my brother too much to steal his rights as King in the North.

Need I say more?

The fact that Rickon and Bran were considered dead when Robb wrote the will doesn't invalidate the will. And it wouldn't be "stealing" anyone's rights - the inheritance was Robb's to give to whosoever he chose.

[RedBean]

The fact that Rickon and Bran were considered dead when Robb wrote the will doesn't invalidate the will. And it wouldn't be "stealing" anyone's rights - the inheritance was Robb's to give to whosoever he chose.

He couldn't just give it to whoever he chose. Jon is the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, which means that he could never hold lands/bear children/blahblahblah. Jon has already rejected Stannis' proposal to rule the North. It would be very much against his nature to now accept Winterfell when he would know Robb only made him heir because Bran and Rickon were thought to be dead. Jon may end up becoming King in the end (though I doubt it) but it's very unlikely he would become Lord of Winterfell.

About Bran, I don't hate him, and though I'm a huge fan of Sansa, I really don't think that Sansa is liked more than Bran. At any rate Bran isn't actively hated by some of the fandom as Sansa is. But Sansa's chapters are more interesting to read, because she's almost always near the thick of action, and interacts with many great characters.

Most people just overlook Bran because he's not really where all the action takes place (at least, not anymore now that he's left Winterfell) and because his chapter can get tedious. His fantasy journey doesn't really resonate with me. I don't want him to become a tree. I want him to return South and DO something, but it doesn't look like that's happenning anytime soon. And he's surrounded by some of the blandest characters in the entire series. Meera is a typical huntress. Jojen is the typical annoying, wiser-than-his-years kid, who's also a seer. Hodor is Hodor - and maybe the most interesting of the bunch, which tells you a little something about how boring they all are. The only interesting thing about the Reeds is that their father is Howland, and maybe the clue to how Jon finds out about his parentage.

[Silver Spearwife]

The fact that Rickon and Bran were considered dead when Robb wrote the will doesn't invalidate the will. And it wouldn't be "stealing" anyone's rights - the inheritance was Robb's to give to whosoever he chose.

But do you think Jon would take what he knows and believes belongs to Bran/Rickon? This isn't a question of Robb's misinformation or legal loopholes - it's about Jon's honor.