Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP 210 Discussion

Recommended Posts

So... just Dany and Ser Jorah now. God help us all next season

We'll get their helpers... they have not even made it to the docks yet for the assassination attempt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok... *takes a deep breathe*

Bad:

- This episode clearly suffered for having to cramp too much stuff in

- My biggest complaint of all: Ramsay didn't totally betray everyone? The Ironborn burned down Winterfell? Yeah apparently they did, 'cos Luwin didn't say anything about Northerners being guilty. The Northerners are absent for no reason? God damnit that was horrible. One of the best, most desperate and dramatic scenes in the book, totally ruined.

- What happened at Winterfell is PIVOTAL to what happens in the North later 'cos when it is revealed it will bring Ramsay down. Manderly will have no one to tell him of it save the Ironborn who he can't get his hands on, there's tons of Ironborn survivors... Seriously, now what? How is Manderly going to know Bran and Rickon are alive and spare Davos and send Davos on his task? Is he going to capture all the Ironborn? If the Ironborn got away on time and didn't burn Winterfell, how will they be able to tell what happened. See, this is what happens is you don't do things properly, you're just creating a domino effect.

- Luwin's death scene started out perfectly, but ended horribly. It was an emotional build-up, but then it just didn't deliver. Maybe it's the acting, maybe it's the writing, I'm not too sure.

- They'll have a hard time bringing Dagmer back in some role in which he aids Asha and Theon later, which I think he eventually will.

- The scene with Ros and Varys was completely pointless. Guess they needed at least someone to show her boobs if only briefly.

- The writer(s) fucking with us. Shae asking Tyrion to go with her and Jaqen asking Arya to go with him serves no purpose but to make us readers creep to the edge of our seat and go "oh no you won't!"

- Shae gets more irritating with every passing episode.

- I very much grant Jason Momoa his scene and wish all the best for him. His scene was however, quite pointless, and seemed to be written to serve little more purpose than making some fangirls go *squee*

- They're kiling off all of Daeny's handmaidens, presumably to cut costs? All the hottest chicks disappear from the show... noooo!

- The King of Qarth, the richest man in the greatest city to have ever been and that will ever be. Has. No. Guards. You can just barge in there and kill him if you want to. That makes no sense.

- Pyat Pree was beaten far too easily. He was the only warlock apparently, and they didn't even have to burn the HOTU to escape him... LAME. Apparently he has a ton of guys ready to cut the Thirteen's throats, destroy a little Khalasar without casualties and steal dragons, and can survive being run through with a sword, but three small dragons are too much for him and he gets mysteriously killed without any of his weird helpers even remotely near him.

- No cool visions... none at all *sobs*

- The members of Daeny's Khalasar mysteriously revived. Okay then... huzzah!

- Jon's scene with Qorin is TFU. 'Oh, you're the man who killed the Halfhand!' Well, that's not going to win you much respect if the Wildlings had already captured him and could have just slit his throat at any time innit? On top of that no one's going to understand why Qorin did what he did. They tried to make it clear, and failed. Not going to punch the non-readers if they didn't get this, on the contrary.

- In the first episode the wights are running like hell, here they are a bunch of stumbling corpses. I don't mind either portrayal, but it has to be consistent, and it's not.

- Stannis. Stannis. Stannis. Stannis. When I'm not putting exclamation points behind his name, you know something's wrong. I have nothing against Dillane, but what's with that dialogue? You will betray everyone, everyone! Yeah you'll betray everyone! No he won't! What the hell are they setting him up for?

- The Other looks like a Uruk-hai who has spent too much time in the freezer and had no armour. Others are elegant humanoids with cool-looking armour and swords. They have an 'alien' feel to them instead of a 'hideous monster' feel and while I wouldn't call them beautiful they are not as hideous as this thing either. The other completely lacked the 'magical' look Others have. Sorry but the Other looked like a crappy creature from a B horror movie and this is terrible because now this has been established as 'The Look' for the Other there'll be no turning back. No matter how scary he was I feel the strong urge to pull him out of the screen and beat him up, even though it would probably kill me.

- It made no sense that the Other would ignore and thus spare Sam.

Slightly redeeming:

(- Ros has lost some weight again during her time off-screen. Yum!

- Tywin's horse crapping.

- They kept the bald dude as an interesting extra for future Ironborn scenes. Kinda like that guy. He's everything I pictured the Ironborn to be.

- Theon being beat down was funny.

- If anything, the Other did look sufficiently scary, even though everything else about him sucked)

Good:

- The Tyrells are shown to be opportunistic bastards and Margaery as pretty much a whore. I like.

- Tyrion waking up with the smug Pycelle was good. Thank you Peter Dinklage for delivering some quality.

- Arya / Jaqen scene was overall good, in fact I loved that scene. I think they gave people who had been salivating all over him a bit of a scare when the face changed. It sure scared me!

- Petyr's talk with Sansa was good. Makes people again wonder, what's his game, how is he going about things, hey wasn't this guy evil, isn't he going to f- Sansa over...? Just gives a lot to look forward to in general.

- House of the Undying: it looked nice, and that's all I have to say about it.

- Brienne being badass. I kinda felt myself sitting with my legs crossed when she killed that final guy even though I shouldn't have anything to fear (I'm not a rapist or a murderer) but it was still awesome. Show-Brienne is just waaay more confident and badass and this bodes well for future seasons.

Edited by StannisandDaeny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought it was a great episode. I was kinda dissapointed that we didn't get more visions in the HOTU, but I liked what we did get.

I don't get why the Other walked right past Sam though. that didn't make sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really not sure how I feel about this episode. There were parts that I really liked (Arya, all the Kings Landing stuff, Theon's scenes, Brienne and Jamie, Dany post-HotU) but at the same time I had some serious problems as well.

First was the absolute lack of explanation for too much stuff. Jon and Halfhand's fight wasn't properly set up and there was absolutely no explanation for the burning of Winterfell. Sure we know Ramsay did it, but in terms of show-only its just confusing. And then there's Robb's marriage. I don't think it was properly set up either and considering the aging up from the books I don't think the suddenness makes much sense; at least not without better explanation. Also, why was it in front of the seven?

Second was the HotU. I've always said I'm fine with changes, and I'd be fine with changes here, I just don't much care for the changes they made. It was cool seeing Drogo again (and completely surprised me, so that was neat), but I wanted more stuff. Just seeing a ruined throne room and then the wall before happy family time wasn't interesting enough and moved too slowly. Again, I don't need Dany to see all the David Lynch-ian visions from the book, but I wanted something a bit more substantive.

Third was the White Walkers/Others. The wights look great, like the cast of the Walking Dead invaded the set, but the WW/Others themselves just look goofy (although their swords and undead horses do look good). Considering how great the rest of the CGI has been (seriously those Dragons are amazing), I'm rather disappointed; particularly since this was the final image of the season.

Now all that being said, there was certainly plenty to enjoy about the episode as well. And I really liked how much it jumped around this week and how overwhelming it sort of was. It acted as reminder to people: yes, we really do have this much plot going on right now; dare you to keep up. That was fun.

Also the face changing and Tywin's horse shitting were really well done. ETA: oh and this week further confirmed that I'm an even bigger fan of show Stannis than book Stannis. Stephen Dillane is so great, I can't wait until his end-of-ASOS and onward plot begins.

Edited by Fez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To those complaining it was "like the walking dead" - how else did you think an army of clumsy, brainless, reanimated corpses was going to come across?

Haha, truth. One thing I've noticed is that a lot of non-book readers thought the undead army was marching on the Wall-- I can see how that would be confusing, but as we all know it was indeed the FotFM they were marching on. I just think that's going to throw some of the TV-only fans off in the beginning of season 3.

I guess most of us book readers share the feeling that the HotU was disappointing, mostly because of the lack of prophecies (and I really wanted to see Rhaegar and Elia)-- but season 2 made it obvious that changes had to be made in order to adapt the story for television, so I get it. I'm certain they'll work in the prophecies early next season somehow, just as I'm certain they're going to run with the Reek storyline and just didn't feel it was necessary to introduce him yet.

Overall, was very pleased with the finale. Luwin and Drogo scenes almost brought me to tears- powerful stuff. Just finished ADWD about a month ago, so now I have no idea what I'm going to do with myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To those having issues over Robb marrying Susie SexyNurse in the light of the Seven:

You need to remember that they're marrying somewhere near a war camp in the South. Northern marriage vows are said before a weirwood, of which there are none in the South.

I'm guessing this is going to be a plot point and the girl really is Jeyne. They'll use it as more motivation for the Northern lords to betray Robb. He went back on his oath, married a Lannister and did it in light of the seven.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand the white walker anger/confusion. They looked just like the one from the first episode. That was night time and he was wearing a black cloak. Underneath the cloak it was the same type of creature.

There were only two white walkers, the one that looked at Sam and as they zoom out there is another on horseback in sweet battle armor that raises his sword and screams. All the rest were wights. Zombies aka NOT the terrifying creatures everyone talks about... Just zombies.

I will say, however, that I always thought they would be more elegant and super skinny/tall with more of a ghost feel to them, but they've decided to go with more of a monster vibe and I'm okay with that. The eyes were freaking perfect though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ugh, the forums ate my initial reactions:

8/10 Great episode with a few flaws.

Kings Landing: The throne room and Tyrion scenes were excellent, minus the horse crap "HBO Moment", do we really need cheap tricks? The Ros/Varys (not a ros hater here) scene was really unnecessary in an episode where almost everything was rushed.

It wasn't an "HBO Moment," that detail came straight from the book.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A lot of people here seem to be confusing wights and the White Walkers. The guy on the dead horse was a White Walker, the rest were wights - reanimated dead people. They were dark and in black in the Prologue to Season 1 because they were mostly reanimated dead members of the Night Watch, whereas in the last scene of Season 2, they are in white because they are mainly reanimated Wildlings.

Why were the wights in season 1 running around inhumanly fast, and these wights just look like something from Shaun of the Dead?

I'm pretty sure the guy who cackles and cuts off the dudes head in the pilot was an Other/White Walker. The little girl and the other dead wildings in the camp came back as wights because of the Other. So the question is, why did the wear black armor, look awesome, and cackle before, and now they look like a cheesy B horror film monster who roars like a Naz Ghul from LOTR?

Edited by Qwop22

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Big Noyd wrote:

[/bold][/und]Robb gets married in the light of the seven? Why? If I'm not mistaken he worships the Old Gods like his father did.

Either the writers totally dropped the ball here, or maybe Robb is secretly plotting to set the marriage aside (though he doesn't seem the type). Or maybe in the case of mixed-religion marriages, the bride's faith takes priority?

And summer_stark wrote:

agree that it makes no sense not to kill sam immediately and there's no way sam is getting out of there w/o some absurdly contrived storyline. what? he kills the horsed white walker and the wights are just like ok nevermind we're out.

Well, if I were in charge of the show's plot, the wights would collapse (turn dead again) as soon as Sam kills the White Walker(s), proving the wights are definitely under outside control (let's face it, zombies aren't very bright).

Edit: Tried to turn bold & underline off. :(

Edited by Sam with Hooters

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the episode was great. I wish there was more visions in HoTU but I understand why they limited it with budget and confusion aspect for those who haven't read the books. LOVED the scene with the empty vault (Varys right yet again) "Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less.”

Jon and the Halfhands scene was sloppy and not put together real well.

Sansa character is getting more and more enjoyable to watch every week. I thought the sincerity in Joffreys and Margareys profession of love was truly touching.

The White Walkers scene I very much enjoyed. In the book they always alluded to how big a threat they are to Westeros but you never really see them form up or get an idea of there numbers. I thought that scene succeeded and showing how big a threat they can be to the Seven Kingdoms.

Robb and Talisa scene is pointless they could have had him marry a ham sandwich...the act of getting married is all that was needed didn't matter who it was too (wasn't a Frey thats what matters).

RICKON HAS A LINE...this was the most amazing thing in two seasons of this show.

I loved the episode and it succeeded in working to get the story to the other major events in SoS (a couple weddings and new lord commander).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About the Robb/Talisa wedding:

In the books I got the impression the Stark kids were raised with both religions. So what's the problem with marrying in the light of the Seven when a septon is more likely available in the South than a godswood?

Edited by White Raven

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Robb swears by the Seven. I have to ask. Does it cost to much to make a scene where a northerner swears by the Old Gods and not by The Seven?

I will have to rewatch but I thought they got married by a heart tree so maybe they were honoring both religions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See there are just some things that dont make sense. When Bran and Rickon are leaving we know the ironborn are gone. How did they get out of a siege first? If it wasnt Ramsey outside but normal loyal Northerners why wouldnt they have entered once the castle was empty? Why would they leave fires lighting? Its the strongest castle in the North and the capital. Why would they abandon it? In the books Ramsey razes it and leaves with his prisoners. Makes sense. The alternative show version doesnt make sense.

Most people are waiting for the confirmation that R+L=J but would watchers even care? They dont even know who L and R most likely but this is going to be an important moment in the next book or the one after. They had to set this up

I havnt really minded the changes until now other then the lack of Tullys and any Tully man. But THOU was pretty bad. Its already been said everywhere so i have nothing to add

Thought the Others were epic. The white walkers are supposed to be slow like zombies while the Others are elegant so no problems with this at all. Sam was stupid unless hes going to stab the other with dragonglass and the rest flee after seeing their leader fall. There was no reason Sam couldnt get away or be at the fist

Did Qhorin give Jon any instructions? Why couldnt he have leaned in when he was dieing and said something like remember who you are,do your duty? Pointless

Biggest WTF moment? Robs wedding. Wrong Gods. How does nobody go hold up this is wrong during filming?

Great to see the dragons and Summer and Shaggy. Theon speech was great. Got me pumped up a lil. Wheres he gone now? Overall i enjoyed roughly half of it id say

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It wasn't an "HBO Moment," that detail came straight from the book.

Well aware, without the proper context is was just a closeup of a horse taking a dump. In the books it was a statement about Tywin. These are what I call HBO Moments. Look at us! AMC may have matched our compelling, intelligent drama, but they don't show you kings getting hummer with slurpy sounds. They don't show you horses crapping and getting beheaded! Watch us instead! The show is better than that. (or not good enough to get the context set first).

I forgot in my initial reactions rewrite:

Jaime/Brienne: Scene was fine, but served no purpose here. This is time that should have been given to Catelyn, Quorin or a vision of Rhaegar and Robert fighting.

Dany: I really enjoyed these scenes. I have no idea why they chained her up. Why not just lock her in the room where she can visit these dreams? It just seemed forced to get the dramatic image of the dragons breathing past her. Minro complaint though, great scenes otherwise.

To add my voice, we have clearly seen the White Walkers (poorly) twice before. I found their appearance pretty awesome and fine with what we've seen before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a complicated episode! For one thing, I absolutely loved the scenes featuring Jaime and Brienne, Stannis and Melisandre, Jon and Quorin and the wildlings, Theon, Arya and Jaqen, and the beginning of an attack at the Fist of the First Men. Seriously, the Other was fantastic! And the way it looked at Sam and just decided he wasn't enough of a threat shows a bit more of their intelligence, which is good. And I loved the zombified wights!

And, yay! It seems Ros will finally have a purpose next season. Thank you, Varys.

The only thing that truly bothered me was the House of the Undying. That's basically the best Daenerys chapter ever (maybe one of the three good Daenerys chapters, really), and in the show it was just... I mean, I loved the glimpse of King's Landing during Winter, and having Jason Momoa back for another scene was absolutely great, and I get that they wouldn't be able to show all that she sees in the books anyway, but still... I wish they had focused on something else instead of Drogo, something from the past perhaps. And why how the Wall? (I'd be okay with that if they had included the blue flower growing in it).

But, oh, Robb was such a deluded jerk that I can't express how happy I'll be by the end of season 3. :devil:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×