[Book Spoilers] Can Ramsay (and Reek) Wait Til Season 4?

[King Bread]

Well I think we will see a bit of them in S3, maybe to an (lesser) extent like Jaime this season. They need to show some of Ramsay's cruelty before we get to see what he has finally done to Theon to the point of the ADWD plotline. Him just being mentioned and trolling Theon with the horn blowing isn't enough as introduction.

Like Gaius Martell said they need to make clear what exactly happened at Winterfell. Did the Ironborn burned it down (although Luwin's words can be interpreted that it was Ramsay, but that's a stretch) or Ramsay? Also Theon's men can't just disappear in the black plot hole, so I expect something like a chase scene where Ramsay fetch up to them. Then the usual "hand over Theon and you can go home" and after doing that Ramsay just goes "lawl no" and kills them, similar to Moat Cailin. The escape attempt is also good stuff. I just hope they don't overdo it with the torturing and concentrate more on the scenes which break Theon's spirit.

[Ramsay Gimp]

The could show Roose informing Robb that Theon burned Winterfell and killed the boys before he was caught (side note: why does no one in the show know about Bran and Rickon's "deaths" yet??!), while the audience knows this isn't the case since Theon was out cold

[Tadco26]

I agree that they could include some of the torture and the escape attempt.

I also think they could put the Lady Hornwood story in Season 3 (or 4).

They could also elaborate on Ramsey's hunting Bran and Rickon. If I remember correctly from ASOS, at some point Bran and the Reeds meet an old man who says something about men looking for two young boys, from which I understood that Ramsey, who knew Bran and Rickon weren't dead, was hunting for them. It would be a nice way to add some suspense to Bran's travels. And it could provide an opportunity to introduce the Reeds- they could appear and assist Bran and Co out of a close call with Ramsey (the Reeds explaining they knew Bran needed help and knew where to find him from greendreams, crannogcraft) , which would assure Bran & Co (and the audience) that they're friends.

Except that Ramsay in the show doesn't know that Bran and Rickon aren't dead unless someone tells him. Robb and Cat don't even know about their "deaths" yet.

Certainly Theon could give the information up under torture, but if he lied initially and they saw the bodies, why would they really suspect he is lieing about that? Them being alive might actually be favorable for Theon as a prisoner. Perhaps they have Theon tell Ramsay the truth right away, and Ramsay lies to Robb about their fate in order to try and kill them himself.

[Ramsay Gimp]

A great final scene for Theon in season 3 would be

"Now, who do you serve?"

chained to the floor, covered in filth and bleeding, Theon looks up and says "You, my lord. Only you, forever."

"And what's your name?"

It cuts to Theon again, a close up. Scene ends. For this to work they would have to establish "naming" Theon as a big part of Ramsay's torture

[johhny-turbo]

One way they can bring Ramsay into season 3 is to have Bran and Rickon run into him (and the Reeds?), stay with him a little, realize (along with the Reeds) that he's bad news and then head back on their journey. This would also provide a way for the Boltons to learn that the Stark kids aren't actually dead.

There really isn't much in terms of action in Bran's story before he hits Queenscrown so that could provide some stuff.

[jarl the climber]

The could show Roose informing Robb that Theon burned Winterfell and killed the boys before he was caught (side note: why does no one in the show know about Bran and Rickon's "deaths" yet??!), while the audience knows this isn't the case since Theon was out cold

Theon killed all the ravens. Also Osha has been getting food from the kitchens so some of the servants knew they were alive. Theon knew they were alive, his men knew they were alive just not where. Maester Luwin knew until he got killed. Lots of people know they might be alive even after their supposed death becomes known. The chances are Robb will probaly hear conflicting reports about it eventually. Probaly Roose will inform him that his Bastard found out they are dead, but will hear something different from other sources in the North eventually. Personally I always thought Robb had heard it was possible they were alive but kept the information from Catelyn to keep her from getting her hopes up.

[Lord Godric]

The problem with Theon and Reek NOT being cut from Season 3 is that he'll just be tortured for 2 or 3 seasons before his story starts to change at all. I think they need to not show Alfie Allen for Season 3 and maybe even 4. If they choose to show him it'll be either inventing entirely new material or moving his story from Dance up way early which would mess things up a lot.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

If done right, Ramsay could easily become the most talked about character for the show. He makes Joffrey look like a cabbage patch kid in comparison.

It would be awesome if they showed Theon and Kyra trying to escape the Dreadfort with Ramsay and his slathering bitch-hounds hunting them down like animals.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

The problem with Theon and Reek NOT being cut from Season 3 is that he'll just be tortured for 2 or 3 seasons before his story starts to change at all. I think they need to not show Alfie Allen for Season 3 and maybe even 4. If they choose to show him it'll be either inventing entirely new material or moving his story from Dance up way early which would mess things up a lot.

I think only a few scenes in the next two seasons would suffice. They can't just drop Allen for two whole years. Plus they've cast Ramsay for a reason.

[Lord Godric]

I think only a few scenes in the next two seasons would suffice. They can't just drop Allen for two whole years. Plus they've cast Ramsay for a reason.

They've cast Ramsey? That's news to me.

I don't think it would be a good idea to just drop Allen entirely, but that means one of two things. He'll be seen tortured for 2 or 3 years (Season 3 is the first half of ASoS, Season 4 the second, and then Season 5 will be some kind of combination between Feast and Dance). It isn't until Dance that we see Theon again, and I don't think that the producers and writers will be okay with having Alfie on the payroll and have him sitting in a cell for two seasons. They certainly wanted to do more with Jaime when he was supposed to be sitting in a cell for a single season. I don't mind new material as long as it serves the story and doesn't get stale by seeing Theon in a cell week after week for two years.

[The Second Hand]

They haven't cast Ramsay and he isn't even confirmed to be cast. Where do people get these fake confirmations?

[Nebmai]

I am getting tired how everyone seems to forget that seasons 3 AND 4 well be covering book 3, from this point on one book no longer equals one season. D + D have stated in interviews their goal is to adapt GRRM's SERIES not one book or the other.

[Frumpus]

I still think they'll cut Ramsay out completely and not have the Theon storyline in S6/7. People keep forgetting that the story is going to keep deviating from the source material with next season, so I would not place my bets on them sticking true to the plots. They have to do some serious cutting, given the ten episode limitation.

[StarkBlack21]

There is no way they cut Ramsay. They never would've mentioned Roose has a bastard son at the Dreafort. Also it has been mentioned by numerous people they ARE CASTING RAMSAY for season 3. Even though in the EW article they don't name him by name, Benioff says there are others being cast that aren't on the list.

You think they are going to cast QUEEN OF THORNS (who I love and knew they would cast) and not cast RAMSAY BOLTON, the biggest villain in the series after Jofferey? People need to get over thinking important characters won't be cast. THE BLACKFISH is being cast, so is EDMURE. They cannot do the series properly without having major characters who affect the overall plot of A SONG OF ICE & FIRE in it.

Ramsay is essential for many main characters stories. IE. JON SNOW, THEON, and FAKE ARYA/ ARYA. Ramsay will be cast!

[Lord Godric]

There is no way they cut Ramsay. They never would've mentioned Roose has a bastard son at the Dreafort. Also it has been mentioned by numerous people they ARE CASTING RAMSAY for season 3. Even though in the EW article they don't name him by name, Benioff says there are others being cast that aren't on the list.

You think they are going to cast QUEEN OF THORNS (who I love and knew they would cast) and not cast RAMSAY BOLTON, the biggest villain in the series after Jofferey? People need to get over thinking important characters won't be cast. THE BLACKFISH is being cast, so is EDMURE. They cannot do the series properly without having major characters who affect the overall plot of A SONG OF ICE & FIRE in it.

Ramsay is essential for many main characters stories. IE. JON SNOW, THEON, and FAKE ARYA/ ARYA. Ramsay will be cast!

But Ramsay isn't essential really until Dance. Which for the show could be three or four seasons in the future. I'm not saying they should cut Ramsay for the immeadiate future, but I could see why they would.

[StarkBlack21]

In television they can not have a main character like THEON off screen for 3 years. Production wise it is too much of a risk. What if Alfie gets another TV show? They have to include him like they did Jamie this year. HBO is not paying an actor money to not be seen for 3 years. Also it could be a blow to the series as Alfie has no doubt become one of the most favorite characters and controversial ones in the series.

They will find a way to keep him on screen even if it's just a few scenes each for the next 2 seasons. They will also be combing FEAST & ADWD so he will be returning within 2 years to main character status. They also have to establish how sick and sadistic that RAMSAY is.

Theon has lot of things happen to him off screen they can incorporate. You can see him being tortured. See him making a friend in Kyra. See how they get the balls to try and escape. And right when they audience thinks Theon might be in the clear -- bring down the hammer of Theon getting caught. And his only friend and hope Kyra getting brutally murdered, adding to Theon's psychological damage.

Think about how powerful it will be when Theon in ADWD is faced with an opportunity to rescue Jeyne Poole/Fake Arya, and he remembers back to what happened to Kyra last time he tried to escape Ramsay.

For TV purposes Theon's whole series arc could be one of the most powerful in the whole series.

[sennahoj]

I am pretty sure Ramsay will make an appearance in season 3, if only for the reason that Roose Bolton has name-dropped his bastard several times this season.

Here's how I imagine the introduction to go. Theon will have his hood ripped off and meet Ramsay for the first time. They might even make it during the burning of Winterfell, even though they'd need to backtrack a little. I don't know how much torture the writers are going to put into the series, they could just show some of the effects to portray the gradual dismemberment of Theon between several torture sessions.

[DragonsHungry]

I agree with what others posted. You can't have a major character disappear, due to the issues like contracts and pay. They have to have an arc for Theon, like as others posted, it will start to get into the Ramsey capture.

I wouldn't be suprised if you start seeing the arc. There is no way Books 4 and 5 can be done as is, you can't pay actors for not appearing, so they are going to have to mix things up.

[Lord Godric]

I agree that it is too much of a risk to have Alfie not appear for a few seasons, but I also don't think they'll want to pay Alfie for one or two scenes where he is being tortured for two or three years. It will get stale and there isn't much room for them to add new stuff. Which probably means they'll end up entirely creating new stuff to make this "popular" character appear more often. Hell, they could have Jaime sitting in a cell for a whole season do you really think they'll have Theon in one for two+ seasons?

[sennahoj]

They'll have Theon in Ramsay's dungeon being tortured, then trying to escape, being chased by Ramsay and his dogs, maybe bumping into the Stark kids in the process and letting himself be caught again to prevent them from falling into Ramsay's hands. At any rate he will be caught and tortured again, eventually being turned into Reek. If the writers decide to drop early hints of Bolton and the Freys conspiring against the Starks, Theon could be the viewers eyes and ears during the plotting, but unable to do anything about it. And that's just some on-the-spot ideas. I am sure the writers will find ways to make use of a captured Theon so Alfie wouldn't disappear for several seasons.