Heresy 13

[Uncat]

I've been trying to find where Euron mentions the three-eyed crow.... must be in Feast, I presume. Any help? I only have the pdfs on my phone with me, and they're difficult to sift through....

Only reference to Euron & a crow that I can think of is indirect... presuming Euron hired the faceless man to kill Balon..... it's said that the man without a face on the swaying bridge had a crow on his shoulder.... thought I don't recall any mention of 3 eyes. "drowned crow with seaweed on it.." or something to that effect.

ALSO ---- there is no doubt in my mind that we're not done with the crypts beneath Winterfell. I have a sneaking suspicion something is down there. What if there is some massive unbelievable tunnel system leading from the crypts to North of the wall, Gendel's children and such.... bael the bard... incredible logistically.... but so is building a 700 ft tall wall of ice from the west coast to the east coast. If elemental magic can create a gigantic ice wall, from one coast to another, who's to say they can't make an incredible cave/tunnel system like that?

He does not mention it explicitly but there is a line in AFFC which strongyl implies such a visit. It is in his strange dialog with Victarion after the feast on the Shild Islands. He her refers to himself as a boy, who once dreamt that he would lern to fly.

Anyone with a book at hand? Gotta watch my pots or else lunch will burn.

Edit: I think he actually said something about being promised to fly.

Edit 2: This thread really is running to fast for me. Just came across Lummels post on this matter...

[Uncat]

As for the obsidian thing. Once again: People remeber, that the White Walkers don't like iron. But people forget, the one thing that despatches an White Walker?

For now I tend to go with the easiest explanation: People on both sides of the Wall newer knew about this weakness and that is why it is not rembered.

This until further evidence arises naturaly :)

Btw: Don't cook and post. It' will be frowned upon

[Lummel]

Uncat, isn't there someone in your BWB who can stir the pots for you while you get on with the important stuff?

When I was a boy, I dreamt that I could fly...when I woke, I couldn't...or so the maester said. But what if he lied?...Perhaps we can fly. All of us. How will we ever know unless we leap from some tall tower?...No man ever truly knows what he can do unless he dares to leap...

after that he drinks shade of the evening with Victarion. We started speculating that Euron might have been visited by the three eyed crow because we were looking at people like Bloodraven with only one eye. So Whoresbane too with his obsidian false eye. The dreams of flying remind me of Bran in AGOT: fly or die.

[Ser Leftwich]

Uncat, isn't there someone in your BWB who can stir the pots for you while you get on with the important stuff?

after that he drinks shade of the evening with Victarion. We started speculating that Euron might have been visited by the three eyed crow because we were looking at people like Bloodraven with only one eye. So Whoresbane too with his obsidian false eye. The dreams of flying remind me of Bran in AGOT: fly or die.

We also looked at people with sickness or injury: Bran, Jojen, Euron (possibly losing the eye), Whoresbane, Shireen. As Bran and Jojen were reached when in a coma and suffering from a swamp fever respectively.

[Uncat]

You mean, apart from a three years old who would be too eager to do a little stearing? Nope.

Anyway, it reminded very much of Brans experience, even on my first read (and back them I noticed almost nothing of the stuff we are discussing). Only that it turnd out very different or at least so it would apear for now.

Still it seems that like Bran, Euron learnd some some stuff about what is to come in his dream which underlies his actions now.

What makes me wonder is, why would BR have reached out to him. Is he a warg? He is a second son like Bran (if we count out Jon). Did he (BR) intend to collect a three headed team, too (i.e. if the dragons head count has this meaning).

[Uncat]

Slicing tomatoes, thinking about Victarion...

One absolutly unimportant sidenote. The Ironpeople have names that sound as if the were characters in a ancient greek myth or tragedy: Euron, Theon, Victarion... Maybe it was joke on Martins part to give the classic names to the most barbarian of the peoples in the Seven Kingdoms.

And another maybe not so unimportant thing. Up to now, they are the only ones who have direct ties to drangons in their mythology. Naga is a direct dragon-human interaction (and the bones are still there). Now they are out for dragons, again.

[Lummel]

...What makes me wonder is, why would BR have reached out to him. Is he a warg? He is a second son like Bran (if we count out Jon). Did he (BR) intend to collect a three headed team, too (i.e. if the dragons head count has this meaning).

Start them early Uncat, got to get them used to work...so a second son of a second son, well a change from a seventh son of a seventh son!

Don't know, what does Bloodraven see in them?

...And another maybe not so unimportant thing. Up to now, they are the only ones who have direct ties to drangons in their mythology. Naga is a direct dragon-human interaction (and the bones are still there). Now they are out for dragons, again.

Have you seen the argument that Nagga's bones are actually the remains of a weirwood grove?

[Uncat]

Nope. Was it in the heresies or someplace else?

[Lummel]

No...can't remember where, but someplace else for sure, think it was from Tze. The idea was dragon bones are black, but weirwoods petrify so you'd be left with white stone columns.

[Elaena Targaryen]

Here is the thread The Grey King and it was started by tze

[hotweaselsoup]

No...can't remember where, but someplace else for sure, think it was from Tze. The idea was dragon bones are black, but weirwoods petrify so you'd be left with white stone columns.

er, ahem, towards the bottom:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/61905-heresy-6/page__st__280#entry3002908

We never get a description of whether Nagga's bones are curved like ribs or not, I don't think.

[Lummel]

I apologise Hotweaselsoup I had forgotten that and I don't think the significance of your idea struck me at the time either. But the idea has got legs and I think that you were on to something. :)

ETA thanks Elaena, I'm glad you remembered!

[Lykos]

HWS preconceived the "howl at the moon" and the "grey king" threads, impressive.

I always imagined the proportions of Weirwoods differently, wider than described given the mentioned hight.

Ahead loomed the sacred shore of Old Wyk and the grassy hill above it, where the ribs of Nagga rose from the earth like the trunks of great white trees, as wide around as a dromond's mast and twice as tall.

Feast

[hotweaselsoup]

I apologise Hotweaselsoup I had forgotten that and I don't think the significance of your idea struck me at the time either. But the idea has got legs and I think that you were on to something. :)

ETA thanks Elaena, I'm glad you remembered!

eh, it was just a throwaway thought, not very developed at all. Tze's thread really fleshes out the idea, and thanks for linking it Elaena. I hadn't seen it yet (I don't get out of this little corner of the forum much :drunk: )

As an add-on, Asha mentions weirwood groves on Sea Dragon Point when she's contemplating settling her ironborn there. I wonder if that's a subtle hint that Nagga's bones aren't really bones at all?

Here's the quote:

Sea Dragon Point had not always been as thinly peopled as it was now. Old ruins could still be found amongst its hills and bogs, the remains of ancient strongholds of the First Men. In the high places, there were weirwood circles left by the children of the forest.

:dunno:

[7V3N]

er, ahem, towards the bottom:

http://asoiaf.wester...80#entry3002908

We never get a description of whether Nagga's bones are curved like ribs or not, I don't think.

Excellent post in general. Really got me thinking.

So, I am finally caught up on the Heresy thread! (I will probably be behind again in an hour or so...)

Also, any thoughts on whether or not Bloodraven can see into dead weirwoods? For example, the weirwood table of the Kingsguard.

I think the "what is dead may never die" is a strong reference to a past connection between the ironmen and the Others/Sidhe.

Another example of the weirwoods being used by the ironmen is the rafters of Harrenhal.

[Uncat]

I'll read it and newer forget who brought it up, hotweaselsoup :)

[Tyryan Lannister]

Not quite gone yet...

As I see it the Sidhe aren't the good guys, they're bad, but they're also part of a natural cycle in alignment with the Singers, which the Red lot are out to destroy. The balance has already been upset by the Red Lot and it needs to be restored by defeating (but not necessarily destroying) them

Yeah. I'd say that probably the best way to describe the Sidhe would be something like Chaotic-Neutral. They are bad for humans, but neutral in the grand scheme of things.

[Lummel]

...I always imagined the proportions of Weirwoods differently, wider than described given the mentioned hight...

They seem to come in different widths. The White Haven weirwood is very wide and the Riverrun one narrow and slim

...As an add-on, Asha mentions weirwood groves on Sea Dragon Point when she's contemplating settling her ironborn there. I wonder if that's a subtle hint that Nagga's bones aren't really bones at all?...

That she associates weirwood groves as something left behind by the children I find interesting as though they were something the children made or were responsible for and not something that just grew.

[hotweaselsoup]

I'll read it and newer forget who brought it up, hotweaselsoup :)

:blushing:

That she associates weirwood groves as something left behind by the children I find interesting as though they were something the children made or were responsible for and not something that just grew.

Weirwood "circles" definitely seems like the trees were planted, rather than just grew organically.

[Uncat]

They seem to come in different widths. The White Haven weirwood is very wide and the Riverrun one narrow and slim

That she associates weirwood groves as something left behind by the children I find interesting as though they were something the children made or were responsible for and not something that just grew.

Oh but that was a remark I wanted to make :(

I instantly had to think about Highhart and the grove by the Wall. Would fit with the discussion going on earlier about why the weirwoods have not overrun the whole forrests. It's because they usualy don't grow wild. The sapling at the Whispers and at the Black Gate are sprouting from older trees and the wild Weirwoods in the Rainforrest may be sapling from once cut down weirwood circles, too.