Who do you think will be the first main book character to figure out Jon's parents?

[scurvy]

Bran may be first to know, but he needs to communicate it with the real world if he wants it to mean anything. Bran knowing something living in a cave well beyond the wall confirms what many readers believe, but it doesn't change the paradigm in Westeros. It doesn't defeat the Others. It doesn't unify the Kingdoms. It doesn't bring the Dragons to Westeros.

All in all, it means that we get to close the millionth thread on R+L=J with a collective handy all around.

[Currawong]

Barristan and Jaime together could know more than they think they know, because it's possible, indeed highly likely, that they have never actually talked about things in a way that let them put all the pieces together.

OK, Jaime was allowed to remain in the KG and Barristan was the LC, but as we see when Barristan was dismissed from the KG, he seemed to despise Jaime, especially as LC. So how much do you think those two ever actually discussed the details of what happened, who was where, and why they were there, in terms of Dayne and the other KG members? Jaime has certainly kept his mouth shut over all the years about Aerys's plot to burn KL (until he told Brienne), so I don't imagine he and Barristan ever traded too many details about Aerys's death and those times generally. They had to develop a working relationship in the KG, but that was that.

But as we know, Rhaegar said to Jaime that 'things would change' in the future when he returned, hinting at a possible plot or takeover plan against his father. It's clearly at the back of Jaime's mind. But did Barristan get the same sort of hint? How much did he know or suspect as to where Ser Arthur Dayne and co had gone? If Barristan and Jaime ever actually got to talk about the events of that time, and pull together the bits that they knew or suspected or even vaguely felt, then they might be the ones to figure it out.

Of course, it could be quite interesting if and when Jaime and Barristan DO get to meet again!

[Jon Mark Selmy]

Some thoughts on the subject:

- I'd really like it if Lady Stoneheart discovered it before her final death.

- Supposing GRRM sticks with his 'only two more books' idea, we will know it either somewhere around the middle of Winds or at the very begning of Dream.

- One interesting way to do it would be for Ser Barristan to tell a very interesting story about it without mentioning any names (he would have known it all along). Some chapters later, in a moment when it becomes very relevant it's Jaime's or Tyrion or whomever will actually tell Jon POV. His mind is spining towards it and we finish the chapter with finaly realizing it (he either says or things 'I know it' without actualy telling us, but while giving various clues alonge the chapter). Somewhere before the next chapter from this person's POV, we have a Jon POV where he encounters that person and he/she finaly reviews it for him (and us).

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

Bran will relay it to Hodor, who will tell Hot Pie, and those three will keep it a secret until their deaths...

[Peko]

An idea I've wrestled with for the past couple days is that, once resurrected somehow, Jon could perhaps go on a journey searching for the Children of the Forest in an attempt to come up with a way to defeat the Others, not unlike the Last Hero. This would lead him to the cave with Bran, Bloodraven, and the Reeds, who would likely inform him of his parentage. Plus, GRRM said TWoW will show the Land of Always Winter, which Jon could easily travel to afterward.

[butterbumps!]

Well what I meant was, GRRM might form a chain of events involving Dany, Barristan and HR or another character from Dorne that will lead to the discovery of Jon's parents.

Thanks for the warm welcome, cheers.

Oh! lol! I thought you were sitting on a theory that worked out all those twists, and I was so anxious to find out how it would go down!!

I don't see it happening this way (with the dragons), but I think you brought up a really interesting scenario. That is, Dany, who doesn't know about the existence of Jon, at all figures out that Rhaegar had a child, and that there is in fact "one more." It would reinforce the vision in the HotU, and she'd be approaching it from the other side than those who know about Jon.

I kind of think it will be Bran though. He has that dream where he sees Ned in the crypts, and when he later tells Luwen about it, says that "Father was sad. Something about Jon I think." (paraphrase) I am inclined to think it will be Bran, though possibly not through weirwoods, but something maybe more connected to a conversation with Ned directly, like in that dream. Don't know if it quite works that way.

[Pod The Impaler]

My bet is on Bran. It's the most likely.

There is an outside chance of it being someone relatively near the Neck like Theon or Sansa.

[Pod The Impaler]

- I'd really like it if Lady Stoneheart discovered it before her final death.

- One interesting way to do it would be for Ser Barristan to tell a very interesting story about it without mentioning any names (he would have known it all along). Some chapters later, in a moment when it becomes very relevant it's Jaime's or Tyrion or whomever will actually tell Jon POV. His mind is spining towards it and we finish the chapter with finaly realizing it (he either says or things 'I know it' without actualy telling us, but while giving various clues alonge the chapter). Somewhere before the next chapter from this person's POV, we have a Jon POV where he encounters that person and he/she finaly reviews it for him (and us).

Yeah, if Barristan knew that the 3 other KG had been sent to protect Lyanna (and he likely did, because he was protecting Rhaegar at the Trident), he may know some details about whether Lyanna was or was not willing to go with Rhaegar, and some more details about the ToJ. He may even have information that could rule out candidates like Ashara or her household - and I can see him wanting to find out about her and thus inadvertently some other details. Maybe not the full picture, but more clues.

As for Lady Stoneheart finding out, I agree, that would be something to see.

Jon seems to be the only person she treated with unrelenting coldness / cruelty while she was alive.

[The Promised Prince]

I don't see it happening this way (with the dragons), but I think you brought up a really interesting scenario. That is, Dany, who doesn't know about the existence of Jon, at all figures out that Rhaegar had a child, and that there is in fact "one more." It would reinforce the vision in the HotU, and she'd be approaching it from the other side than those who know about Jon.

exactly, but if R + L = J is true then Dany and Jon would have a huge argument over the Iron Throne. I think Jon would be the more legitimate candidate, no?

Saying that Bran would know Jon's parentage because of his newly found abilities should be invalid I think. Of course Bran would know, he and BR owns like several cctvs throughout westeros.

[Faint]

The author may play games with us by not having Bran realize the obvious. As it is, I bet Meera and Jojen already know but they've not taken any steps to explicitly tell him. Still, he's probably the best bet.

As for other characters who might potentially realize it, figure it out or have the information given to them:

Jaime: I don't think he is clever enough, not even close. It took him more than thirty years to figure out his sister's true nature and he's been her lover for most of that time. Besides, he's self obsessed; he only thinks about things that pertain to him and his own feelings.

Melisandre: A lot of potential but not very clever at interpreting her visions. I'm sure she'll get visions pointing her in the right direction but it's highly questionable whether they'll be of any use to her.

Barristan: Very doubtful; he wasn't even supposed to have a POV until very recently and I question how much it will even be used going forward. And if he was going to figure out the mystery, you'd like to think it would have already happened.

Daenerys: Has already been given a really big clue and the seeds are there if she ever comes to know about Lyanna's association with blue roses. Quaithe might know, but even if she does, she'll only give that information to Daenerys in cryptic, enigmatic fashion (per her custom). Daenerys, of course, is terrible at figuring out riddles, visions, etc.

Finally, depending on whether Ashara Dayne is alive and, if so, where she is, any POV she comes into contact with has the potential to be gifted the information.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

Dany finally asks Barristan about her father and he talks about Aery's kingsguard with tyrion presents, she demands that Barristan tell her how if they were so honorable why they dyed at the toj and didn't go to dragonstone, Tyrion's head explodes

I actually hope though that the fact that Jaime has been missing for weeks means he's going north, i too want to see the Jamie/Jon buddy cop comedy hour

[thewingedwolf]

Call me crazy but here is my theory. I think Stannis knows. I think the letter Ned Stark wrote him about Cersei and Robert's children also contained some information about Jon. I think the Red Herring is that everyone thinks Jon is Azor Ahai. Here are the facts that I use to support my claim:

1. Why would Stannis really want to crush the wildling army in the North? Did he really believe it would rally the North? Of course not, he did it to save Jon

2. Why would Stannis, whose sense of justice in unyielding legimitize a bastard (we saw what he was willing to do to Edric Storm) and release him from hs vows to the Night's Watch by offering him to become lord of Winterfell.

3. There are countless passages in the books where Jon Snow mentions how surprised he is that Stannis is that patient with his refusal to give him what he wants.

Stannis has an unyielding sense of justice and if he knows Jon Snow to be the rightful king, he will not stop until he can put him on the Throne. I know its far-fatched but it is not without basis to believe that he is knows.

. . . Also I believe Varys knows everything

[Booknerd2]

Dying to know what we don't know regarding Ned being so sure that Wylla would never open her mouth about Jon. Even by accident.

If she came to Winterfell to be his children's nurse, I could even understand, but she is so far away with such a big secret. Probably other info too.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

. . . Also I believe Varys knows everything

Can someone give me one good reason why Varys knows? Based on actual evidence, not, "Varys seems to know everything, ergo he must know this." No, he's not omnipotent. So tell me, someone who believes this, how Varys knows.

[thewingedwolf]

Can someone give me one good reason why Varys knows? Based on actual evidence, not, "Varys seems to know everything, ergo he must know this." No, he's not omnipotent. So tell me, someone who believes this, how Varys knows.

I did not mean this part of my argument seriously (its hard to convey sarcasm in writing). I do believe Varys knows something about it, although perhaps not the whole story.

[Gurinder Brarstark]

Call me crazy but here is my theory. I think Stannis knows. I think the letter Ned Stark wrote him about Cersei and Robert's children also contained some information about Jon. I think the Red Herring is that everyone thinks Jon is Azor Ahai. Here are the facts that I use to support my claim:

1. Why would Stannis really want to crush the wildling army in the North? Did he really believe it would rally the North? Of course not, he did it to save Jon

2. Why would Stannis, whose sense of justice in unyielding legimitize a bastard (we saw what he was willing to do to Edric Storm) and release him from hs vows to the Night's Watch by offering him to become lord of Winterfell.

3. There are countless passages in the books where Jon Snow mentions how surprised he is that Stannis is that patient with his refusal to give him what he wants.

Stannis has an unyielding sense of justice and if he knows Jon Snow to be the rightful king, he will not stop until he can put him on the Throne. I know its far-fatched but it is not without basis to believe that he is knows.

. . . Also I believe Varys knows everything

But Jon isnt the rightful king, Robert won the Throne by right of conquest and because he has no legitimate children Stannis is the righful King, even if Jon is Rhaghars son.

[thewingedwolf]

But Jon isnt the rightful king, Robert won the Throne by right of conquest and because he has no legitimate children Stannis is the righful King, even if Jon is Rhaghars son.

"Rightful" is a complicated concept in Westeros. My point was I think Ned told Stannis who Jon Really is in the letter and that explains Stannis' actions in the North.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

The more I think about it, the stranger it seems that no characters have asked the questions we readers ask, that is, "why was the best part of the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy, and what the hell happened?" You'd think that Jaime. who idolized Arthur Dayne, would want to know after all that kingslaying kerfuffle died down. Certainly Barristan would, once he recovered, and Varys, just because Varys wants to know everything. If Varys had been plotting a Blackfyre coup from the beginning of his service you'd think he want to keep track of any Targ offspring.

It also seems very strange that the people speculating about Jon's parentage wouldn't think of Rhaegar and Lyanna just in the course of gossiping, after all the story being circulated was that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped her and rape sometimes results in offspring.

I've also found it incredible that Catelyn wouldn't have kept looking for Jon's mother on her own. What Ned didn't know wouldn't hurt him or her . . .

Heh, maybe the Iron Bank knows something about it, which is why they offerred the loan to Jon (just in case Stannis doesn't succeed). Heck, maybe someone among the FM knows because collecting information is their thing -- after killing people, that is -- and Arya will find out. Far fetched, I know.

I think Jon will find out during his time in Ghost, or that discover something in the crypts. Those crypts have to mean something.

[Jolene Brown]

Did Stannis even get that letter? I thought he didn't.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Did Stannis even get that letter? I thought he didn't.

I'm not sure. I think he did on the show, but not in the book. I think the messenger Ned was going to send was killed with the household before he could leave. That sounds right.