Who do you think will be the first main book character to figure out Jon's parents?

[Sand Snake No. 9]

nah, I don't think so, Lyanna appearing in his dreams would be more likely to happen than Jon seeing her ghost in her crypts. Ghosts appear in GRRM's novels as a shade or a spectre not in a "spiritual" sort. e.g. Renly's ghost in Battle of Blackwater

I was just kidding. A Lyanna ghost is a little too Harry Potter for asoiaf -- and if she showed up she'd have to tell the whole story and we will NEVER get that.

I agree that there's no evidence that Varys knows anything about Jon, but considering what we know about the master of secrets, he should. The complete secrecy surrounding Jon's parentage is really contrived.

[Jolene Brown]

I agree that there's no evidence that Varys knows anything about Jon, but considering what we know about the master of secrets, he should. The complete secrecy surrounding Jon's parentage is really contrived.

There are so many people who should have at least suspected, I think.

[Stoned Dragon]

First we need to list who knows or might know: Jojen and Meera might know. Bloodraven knows. Howland Reed too. Varys might know due to his influence and intelligence, but he'll tell anyone about it.

Howland Reed is somewhere at the Neck, away from POV characters, so, he'll not tell anyone about it (he may have told his kids).

Since Bloodraven knows and is with Bran, he - Bran - will be the first to know about it.

I can't really think of anyone else. Maybe Mel, using her flames.

Howland Reed is in the neck, but still has two ships filled with Robb's men bringing him a will naming Jon his heir. Howland knows both who inherits the north and who should inherit the Kingdom - the two most important non-supernatural questions in this story. He is going to make an appearance. I'd love to go with you on the Mel thing, but Mel doesn't care who sits on the Iron Throne - she cares about Stannis being AA, she won't look that way - or if she does, all she will see is "Snow" like she saw before, and she will assume its because of the "Great Other"

But Jon isnt the rightful king, Robert won the Throne by right of conquest and because he has no legitimate children Stannis is the righful King, even if Jon is Rhaghars son.

That's the problem. When Robert won the throne he won by right of conquest, which disrupted the traditional hereditary system. Stannis can claim the to be the hereditary ruler, but since Robert's claim was so recently made with force it doesn't cary as much weight because the last hereditary ruler from the last regime is hanging out in Meereen with dragons. Its like the French throne, there is an Orleanist pretender, a Bourbon pretender, and a Napoleonic pretender, because the regimes changes so quickly but weren't extinguished. Stannis is merely the Baratheon pretender.

EDIT: I never answered the actual question in this thread: I think Bran is set up to figure it out before everybody, but in terms of who will find out that can actually DO something about it, I think that's got to be the Martells. Not only would they have access to Wylla, if she is still alive, but they also are spread throughout the realm in such a way to be able to piece all the parts of the story together. It also puts them in an interesting position vis-a-vis Aegon.

[Stoned Dragon]

There are so many people who should have at least suspected, I think.

I'm curious as to how many people should have suspected R+L=J? I mean, Cat says in GoT that the only time she ever confronted Ned about Jon's parentage was when she heard servants in Winterfell talking about him and Ashara Dayne. I think that is the big smokescreen here that prevents people from seeing past the obviousness. When you have a noblewoman lose her brother and then throw herself off a tower after the man everyone knew she loved brought back his bones, it becomes hard to look for the "truth" behind such a story.

[Booknerd2]

People probably suspect something might have been up, but who would say much if they are not sure.

I can't imagine anyone being brave enough to approach Robert. Unless they wanted a punch in the face or worse. LOL.

[The guy from the Vale]

I think if Jaime ever meets Howland Reed, he'll figure it out pretty soon. Simply because whatever Jaime and Howland might talk about would give Jaime a hint. Whether it's Jaime being a King's Guard (HR: "I killed one of you. The one with the glowing sword") or 'Aegon' returning (HR: "Rhaegar's son claims his birthright? I would have thought Lord Eddard more honorable than that."), Reed might drop a single innocuous line that starts the thought cascade for Jaime.

[Booknerd2]

But Howland would be careful about the info in the wrong hands, especially even before Jon knows.

I'm still debating whether or not Howland told his kids. Then again, Jojen sees things anyway.

[Baratheon Badassery]

EDIT deleted.

[sillent]

Bran might get hints and clues but I doubt he'll figure it out. Unless BR straight up tells him, but then its not really figuring out is it?

Would be interesting if Sansa or one of the Lannisters piece it together.

[Lyanna Stark]

I don't think Jaime will be the one to figure it out, but it's interesting how strongly he has been linked to Jon and Rhaegar. First he brings up the "such a white name" about Snow, then Cat sees Jon and Jaime both paired in the Warrior. We later on have Jaime's dream where Rhaegar comes out and accuses him of not keeping his children safe (Rhaegar doesn't mention his father, but his wife and children.) and it's a very personal accusation as well.

Howland Reed and the Reed children know, I believe, but who are they going to tell? Bran? Howland is a Crannogman so he's at the Neck, which is geographically rather close to the north of the Riverlands. Should he "pop up" somewhere, it would be there, where we have Jaime, Brienne, UnCat nearby. I'm not convinced Howland can send a message via telepathy to Bloodraven or Bran (and Bloodraven knows anyway as we've seen with the ravens crying "King") which means he'll have to meet up with a POV. Which could potentially be Jaime, especially since Jaime has this huge "Omg I failed Rhaegar" written all over him.

[Harlaw's Book]

I think an argument can be made that the reveal could happen in any POV chapter.

Would be interesting if Sansa or one of the Lannisters piece it together.

One of the reasons I think it possible for the reveal to happen in a Sansa or Tyrion POV is because those are the POVs that tend to have big reveals in them.

Lyanna Stark, Jaime's reaction to R + L = J is one of the ones I really hope we get to see. I think it will be an emotional train wreck for him because Jon represents both Rhaegar, the man he regrets failing, and Ned, the man he resents for judging him. I hope Jaime and Jon get a chance to meet up because Jon will have every reason to hate Jaime for what Jaime has done to both of sides of his family, but the experiences Jon learned on his own at the Wall could allow Jon to empathize with Jaime in ways that almost no one else could.

But back to the reveal, I agree with everyone that Bran pretty much already knows. However, that doesn't mean Bran is the POV that will reveal it to the reader --hence my first sentence in the post. I think the who gets the reveal will be dependent on how it's revealed. If it's done magically then it's more likely to happen in a Bran, Dany, or any of the other characters that tend to attract magic. If the reveal is done via someone putting together the clues or finding out from someone who already knew, then it's more likely to come from characters who are less exposed to magic.

[Jolene Brown]

I don't think Jaime will be the one to figure it out, but it's interesting how strongly he has been linked to Jon and Rhaegar. First he brings up the "such a white name" about Snow, then Cat sees Jon and Jaime both paired in the Warrior. We later on have Jaime's dream where Rhaegar comes out and accuses him of not keeping his children safe (Rhaegar doesn't mention his father, but his wife and children.) and it's a very personal accusation as well.

Howland Reed and the Reed children know, I believe, but who are they going to tell? Bran? Howland is a Crannogman so he's at the Neck, which is geographically rather close to the north of the Riverlands. Should he "pop up" somewhere, it would be there, where we have Jaime, Brienne, UnCat nearby. I'm not convinced Howland can send a message via telepathy to Bloodraven or Bran (and Bloodraven knows anyway as we've seen with the ravens crying "King") which means he'll have to meet up with a POV. Which could potentially be Jaime, especially since Jaime has this huge "Omg I failed Rhaegar" written all over him.

In that same dream where Rhaegar accuses him of failing to protect his wife and children, Jaime also refers to Rhaegar as "Prince of Dragonstone and Rightful Heir to the Iron Throne." That phrase speaks volumes to me. He knows that his children do not belong on the throne. He does not have any affection or liking for Stannis. How would he respond to a real son of Rhaegar's? (I do not think he is going to buy the Aegon thing, but that could be my own bias speaking, as I completely think Aegon is a fake).

[darndes]

The obvious answer would be Bran.

[Lyanna Stark]

In that same dream where Rhaegar accuses him of failing to protect his wife and children, Jaime also refers to Rhaegar as "Prince of Dragonstone and Rightful Heir to the Iron Throne." That phrase speaks volumes to me. He knows that his children do not belong on the throne. He does not have any affection or liking for Stannis. How would he respond to a real son of Rhaegar's? (I do not think he is going to buy the Aegon thing, but that could be my own bias speaking, as I completely think Aegon is a fake).

Yes it is. Jaime does refer to Rhaegar as the Rightful Heir, which is interesting in itself. I think it's hinted throughout AFFC that Jaime would be happier if his children were not anywhere near the Iron Throne (which also makes me wonder if the reason he might become the valnoquar is to protect Tommen or Myrcella from Cersei's ambition, in general I dislike the Jaime as valonquar theory since I think it would be terrible for both him and his children if he ended up murdering both his sister and their mother. Just no.).

And also, as much as Jaime laments that he did not become Ser Arthur Dayne or the White Bull, it seems Jaime are still defending himself against their accusations, but his reaction to Rhaegar is different.

It's also interesting to consider that Jaime has rarely seen Jon Snow, just a few times at Winterfell and knowing he was Ned's bastard he probably paid him almost zero attention.

Should Jaime be convinced that Jon is really the son of Rhaegar, I think Jaime with his newfangled wish for honour would go try and find him (after some flip flopping, angsting and manpain to be sure ;) ). Jaime seems to think Sansa is his last hope at honour, and perhaps she is, but I tend to think that Jon Snow is and Sansa acts as a Stark stand in for the moment.

Lyanna Stark, Jaime's reaction to R + L = J is one of the ones I really hope we get to see. I think it will be an emotional train wreck for him because Jon represents both Rhaegar, the man he regrets failing, and Ned, the man he resents for judging him. I hope Jaime and Jon get a chance to meet up because Jon will have every reason to hate Jaime for what Jaime has done to both of sides of his family, but the experiences Jon learned on his own at the Wall could allow Jon to empathize with Jaime in ways that almost no one else could.

Ah yes interesting. Jaime's view of Ned Stark will definitely change if he learns about Jon Snow. Not only did Ned not father a bastard, but he hid the crown prince at the peril of his own marriage and the peril of his family.

I tend to agree with you that Jaime has an emotional trainwreck ahead of him if he learns of Rhaegar's son being alive. My one fear is that he will somehow end up in the f!Aegon mess, but hopefully he will be well removed from that particular shitstorm. I also tend to think that when it comes to Kingsguard, Jaime will be in it. His gradual "bleeching" from gold and red to white and silver/grey seems to indicate to me both a foreshadowing of Kingsguard, but also check the colours: his colours are going from Lannister to bloody Stark ones.

Jon has also been put in an environment where he has been forced to work together with people who are basically scum, and he's managed to put most of his personal feelings about that behind him. Could he accept Jaime, despite the fact that he's almost murdered Bran? I don't know, perhaps if he has Brienne as a buffer? I always figured that Dany would have a harder time accepting Jaime, should they meet, but now I tend to think it will be Jon who has the harder time with him, since Aerys was mad, delusional and murderous, while Bran was only a small boy.

[SteelAndSnow]

Also, I'm in the camp that thinks Varys and Littlefinger do not know. I agree with what Apple Martini said upthread, that Ned who they all viewed as this honorable doofus, has pulled one over on everyone for years.

THIS. Like I said before the whole beauty of it would be that even Varys and LF didn't suspect anything like this.

But back to the reveal, I agree with everyone that Bran pretty much already knows. However, that doesn't mean Bran is the POV that will reveal it to the reader --hence my first sentence in the post. I think the who gets the reveal will be dependent on how it's revealed. If it's done magically then it's more likely to happen in a Bran, Dany, or any of the other characters that tend to attract magic. If the reveal is done via someone putting together the clues or finding out from someone who already knew, then it's more likely to come from characters who are less exposed to magic.

Bran will know; he probably just won't be in a position to tell. I think it would be more satisfying (for me at least) if someone pieces it together rather than magic being involved. :dunno:

People I think may figure it out:

Bran (but it won't change anything; maybe it's revealed to the reader in a Bran POV and to the characters in someone else's)

Jamie

Tyrion

Barriston (I have huge doubts but still a possibility)

Sansa somehow?

The Dornish

My money is on Jamie/Tyrion leaning towards Jamie

[Ice Turtle]

Jon has also been put in an environment where he has been forced to work together with people who are basically scum, and he's managed to put most of his personal feelings about that behind him. Could he accept Jaime, despite the fact that he's almost murdered Bran? I don't know, perhaps if he has Brienne as a buffer? I always figured that Dany would have a harder time accepting Jaime, should they meet, but now I tend to think it will be Jon who has the harder time with him, since Aerys was mad, delusional and murderous, while Bran was only a small boy.

He also tried to kill Robb and Arya and wounded Ned without any good reason. I don't think Jon will ever like Jaime but I agree that he will use him.

[Night Gathers]

I'll get mad if Jon dies before finding out.

[The Promised Prince]

I'll get mad if Jon dies before finding out.

All of us here good ser, will turn mad, as mad as Aerys II himself if we are deprived of knowledge of Lord Snow's true parentage.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Good call whoever touted Lady Dustin. I guess a lot of her ability to comprehend may very well depend on how much she actually resents the Starks.

In terms of who has the savvy to work it out, if Littlefinger asks Sansa about her (seemingly) only remaining relative (it may be significant in terms of Harry the Heir, possibly), then he could piece a few things together.

[Scipio Africanus]

About Varys. Wouldn't he have ever been suspecious that THREE KGs were stationed at the ToJ AFTER Rhaegar left? Now of course maybe he didn't know but it seems to raise questions with me even reading the situation from afar.