Who do you think will be the first main book character to figure out Jon's parents?

[Risha]

. . .Reed might drop a single innocuous line that starts the thought cascade for Jaime.

Just a thought: There is someone much closer to Jaime at this moment who could do just this and not even realize that he had said anything unusual: Edric Dayne, Lord of Starfall, member of the B w/o B, and milkbro to Jon. Who knows what was said in front of Edric--as a child, he may have heard things that he could repeat without realizing that it would be news to anyone. He seemed genuinely surprised that Arya didn't know the story of Ashara and Ned--perhaps there are other stories he thinks that everyone knows...

Wouldn't it be great if the one to figure it out is Lady Stoneheart! What would she do?

[Ice Turtle]

Just a thought: There is someone much closer to Jaime at this moment who could do just this and not even realize that he had said anything unusual: Edric Dayne, Lord of Starfall, member of the B w/o B, and milkbro to Jon. Who knows what was said in front of Edric--as a child, he may have heard things that he could repeat without realizing that it would be news to anyone. He seemed genuinely surprised that Arya didn't know the story of Ashara and Ned--perhaps there are other stories he thinks that everyone knows...

Wouldn't it be great if the one to figure it out is Lady Stoneheart! What would she do?

I'm not sure Edric is still with BwB, but he was there and he talked so part of the Brotherhood (Harwin for example) know the tales.

[salt]

I was just kidding. A Lyanna ghost is a little too Harry Potter

Lyanna ghost showing up would be ok with me as long she is waving her hands spookily and going 'whooooOOOOOOooooooo' the whole time.

[Siziel]

The real problem to me is:

If/When someone is going to discover the truth, is he/she going to tell it to the world?

I can't see Mel (my first option) or Bran doing it, for different reasons, maybe Jaime will, expecially if he's going to end at the wall after revealing the truth about his kids.. but WHO is going to believe a former KG who has killed the first king he served and severely betrayed the second, having 3 kids with the queen (not to mention that the queen was his sister)?????

Howland Reed? he waited 20 years to reveal the truth, they will all think he's an old crazy fool.

who else?

am I beconig paranoid or what??

[Lyanna Stark]

About Varys. Wouldn't he have ever been suspecious that THREE KGs were stationed at the ToJ AFTER Rhaegar left? Now of course maybe he didn't know but it seems to raise questions with me even reading the situation from afar.

The question is how the KG operated and who told what to whom. Barristan recalls that some Kingsguard were closer than others, and that for instance Ser Arthur Dayne was closer to Rhaegar than the others. It is also unclear how Ser Gerold Hightower commanded the Kingsguard, plus it seems that Jaime was kept in Kings Landing by Aerys specifically, while Aerys perhaps assumed the other Kingsguard were out fighting in battles, while really they were heading to the Tower of Joy?

It doesn't seem that Jaime is all too familiar with three Kingsguard being at the Tower of Joy, since it seems obvious that he'd reflect on its meaning.

Varys wouldn't know where they were if they decided to go there while away from Kings Landing. His Little birds are restricted to that city, it seems, and in the field he'd have to rely on informers just like everyone else. Besides, it seems Varys was focusing on mad Aerys at this time, not on what the Kingsguard were or weren't up to out in the countryside.

[The Snow King]

It may seem strange that people do not wonder what KIngsguard was doing in the Tower of Joy, but then again, they all (presumably) died, and Ned had no reason to say anything suspicious. And all the major players had a lot other stuff to think about, with the major power change, so I doubt they spared much though on Ned's bastard. Not to mention the fact that Ned removed him as far as he could from the court. It's not that surprising that people did not care. Were Starks known Targaryen loyalists, things may have been different. The person most interested with Jon parentage was Catelyn and she was stopped by Ned in no uncertain terms.

As for who can make the connection between Jon and Rheagar, I think it's Tyrion. Howland Reed knows for certain, and probably Bloodraven, but if they wanted to do something about it, they probably already would. Bran has a chance to learn trough weirwoods, too, but probably will lack any way to do anything with this knowledge. It would be interesting to see Jaimie realise R+L, but he doesn't really have many leads, and is, I think, much better posed to enlighten Gendry about his parentage, rather than Jon.

It's reasonable to assume people already know all that they will know about the war and Tower of Joy. It'd doubtful we will have any new revelations about what happened. The best is that someone will consider what is known in new perspective. That person would probably have to be quite smart, too, but despite that would need a reason to re-evaluate what is known about Tower of Joy. That can be some new knowledge (but beside Howland Reed or Bloodravenm who could provide) it or something about Jon. Unfortunately, Jon doesn't have any obvious Targaryen traits, but Tyrion spent some time with him when they went to the Wall, so maybe he still remember how Jon looks and can see some strange familiarity when he finally meets Dany. Maybe Tyrion wont even know why Dany seems strangely familiar, and only realise that after some time. Still, my money is on him.

[Mikken's Mark]

The biggest issue with Varys' claims that he serves the realm and does it for the children is that he has deliberately instigated or has attempted to instigate several bloody and deadly rebellions. His actions contradict his so-called higher purpose.

Very true. Solid point.

Maybe he's hoping the ends will justify the means? Maybe I'm just hoping he's serving some kind of noble purpose?

(Hopefully the former, probably the latter)

Varys wouldn't know where they were if they decided to go there while away from Kings Landing. His Little birds are restricted to that city, it seems, and in the field he'd have to rely on informers just like everyone else. Besides, it seems Varys was focusing on mad Aerys at this time, not on what the Kingsguard were or weren't up to out in the countryside.

Varys has birds everywhere. That's how *POSSIBLE SPOILER* Jorah was able to inform on Dany, and he was certainly not in KL.

However, Varys focusing on the Aerys and not what is going on elsewhere is entirely possible.

It was brought to my attention that I misunderstood your post and I realize I did. My apologies.

[WinterWarrior]

I think Meera and Jojen know more about the R+L story then they have told Bran. So I think Bloodraven, Howland Reed, Meera and Jojen know....which means Bran will know. How it eventually gets to Jon and the world I don't have a clue.

If Bloodraven is such a powerful mystical creature, couldn't he just warg into another human body? The prologue in DwD shows that can be done, even though it is not supposed to be done. I wonder if he plans to do just that....hmmmm...I still believe that his intentions are ultimately good and he is not in league with the Great Other. Maybe Bran will replace him in the cave, he will leave his old dying body and warg into another.....maybe Brynden Stark? And he will tell Jon....

Ok, my imagination is getting carried away now.... I will stop.

[Ice Turtle]

The reason why Varys probably doesn't know about Jon is Rhaegar. Rhaegar by all accounts was an highly intelligent man who spent enough time at the court to know how KL works. It is hinted that Varys sabotaged one of his plans (Harrenhall) I doubt Rhaegar repeated the mistake. No one besides people most loyal to him knew where Lyanna was, good chance is that they still don't know where ToJ was located. It may also be that someone fed Varys false information confirming that there was no child.

[JOler]

I could see Barristan connecting the dots and if he does, saying something to Dany if she comes back.

[Siziel]

I could see Barristan connecting the dots and if he does, saying something to Dany if she comes back.

Why now, after what.. 17 years?

what will give him the stroke of genius?

[Scipio Africanus]

Varys wouldn't know where they were if they decided to go there while away from Kings Landing. His Little birds are restricted to that city, it seems, and in the field he'd have to rely on informers just like everyone else. Besides, it seems Varys was focusing on mad Aerys at this time, not on what the Kingsguard were or weren't up to out in the countryside.

KGs were not some paltry unit, they were the royal family's bodyguard. Wouldn't at least Aerys have asked where his bodyguard went?

Of course maybe they did tell Aerys and Varys that 3 KGs went with Rheagar to the ToJ but never told him that Rheagar went WITHOUT them to face Bob Baratheon at the Trident.

[kg1982]

Aerys was in crazy land by this time so I doubt he connected the dots and Varys didn't care. I'm assuming that Rhaegar was suspicious of Varys and took some precautions.

However it is odd that no one questions what happened to Ser Arthur Dayne or there isn't more written about it in the White Book. It seems that it is common knowledge that Ned killed Ser Arthur, but I guess the circumstances are hazy.

[Cheese Pudding]

This is a popular theory, that something is in her crypt to prove that Jon is who he is. Also, it's odd for Lyanna to have a tomb at all in a crypt that's usually reserved for kings and lords. It would make sense though if she died a princess and a queen mother.

Actually, the crypt is for everyone. Ned's first POV

...as they walked among the dead of House Stark...

later

...black holes waiting for their dead, waiting for him and his children.

So, everyone is burried there, but only the Lords have statues and longswords. Or at least Ned changed a thousand-year ou more custom and started burrying every Stark there. The question is why does Lyanna have a statue. Because Ned described his father and Robert said Lyanna was more beautiful than the statue. No description of Brandon. I've written it smaller because that's a bit off topic.

Is Stannis discovers it, that would be funny. I'd love it. If Jaime knew, it would be great if he told Lady Stoneheart about it. But I don't believe he knows or will know about it.

[Lyanna Stark]

KGs were not some paltry unit, they were the royal family's bodyguard. Wouldn't at least Aerys have asked where his bodyguard went?

Of course maybe they did tell Aerys and Varys that 3 KGs went with Rheagar to the ToJ but never told him that Rheagar went WITHOUT them to face Bob Baratheon at the Trident.

We know they didn't face Robert at the Trident because in his dream scene, Ned asks them why they weren't at the Trident and why they weren't at Storm's End, and they weren't guarding the Queen and Viserys.

So clearly, they were somewhere else, but it didn't seem well know why they were there. Since Varys nilled Rhaegar's other plans at Harrenhal, it's likely he was very careful in picking people and when to tell the three he trusted to guard the Tower of Joy.

[Booknerd2]

That's another thing too. Not just how various people could find out but also comparing how some would digest and react and act.

A few brought up Tyrion. I am on my second AGOT re-read. And pretty sure not only am I picking up stuff I didn't the first time but I probably have to do a third re-read too. LOL. Anyway, I noticed how much page time Tyrion and Jon Snow get. Not sure now that the purpose is just to introduce us to Tyrion and Jon's plights. Really how touching it us that these two men are both struggling with their place in their family and their place in the world as individuals.

They really seemed to hit it off. Tyrion seems to like him. It might be good if Tyrion finds out Jon is the heir strategically. Not sure he is an Aegon/Faegon fan, and he hasn't met Dany yet so...and through Sansa, Ned, Cat, Bran, he has seen the destruction of the Starks and seemed to sympathize. Well, he still may not be a Cat fan and of course it didn't matter when he was in the Lannister fold, but it might be nice insurance for the Starks later on.

[Booknerd2]

Also, the Wylla thing bugs me. People believe she has an affair with Ned and a baby yet she goes on to nurse Edric Dayne and stays with them?

Not only would people be surprised that Noble Ned would cheat, but it is very un-Ned like to cheat with someone in the employ of the Daynes?

The Ashara and Wylla thing drives me nuts speculating what they know/knew. Is Wylla still alive?

[Budj]

Why is everyone forgetting about Sam?!

Interesting aspects of his story line. He was completely oblivious (and pissed he didn't recognize it sooner) that there was a baby switch. Master Aemon talked to him about his prophecies. TWO things Sam has experienced directly related to fake baby switching and AA/tptwp. Now Sam is in oldtown with a Sand Snake. Is it that far-fetched to think he may stumble on some hearsay about the events at the ToJ and put two and two together? Realize Aemon was wrong....there is a Targ left and Dany doesn't necessarily meet the requirements by default anymore?

Also - to comment on the Jaime discussion. Stoneheart is aware of Robb's will (I think...) or if she gets reminded of the will it would be cool for her last act is to redeem her behavior towards Jon and send Jaime and Brienne on a mission related to assuring Jon carries on Robb's legacy. Also - to be King in the North doesn't not necessarily mean Jon has to take Rickon/Bran's claim to WF...and I doubt he would. Something similar..I don't know...I just think Jaime's story is going to tie into Jon's eventually and I think Jaime is pretty deadset in his KG mentality now...like Selmy.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Is Wylla still alive?

I believe so, yes. And she knows.

[The Wolves]

I think Bran will find out first. I hope Jamie doesn't find out I hate him and nothing good will come out him knowing, unless he faces Jon and Jon kills him with no thought except of hatred and Vengence. Jamie is scum and Lannister Jon should have no use for him, bitch still hasn't found Sansa.