Who killed Joffrey?

[Roddy the Ruin]

I'm pretty sure it was The Tyrells who did it. Littlefinger helped it happen and used it to his advantage.

[ShaggyCat]

How much is Sansa an unreliable narrator though? We have two areas where she's "unreliable" - the UnKiss, where her romantic notions of chivalry take a turn for the slightly weird, and we have her Stockholm Syndrome way of dealing with Littlefinger in the Vale.

Neither suggest her account of the Purple Wedding is suspect.

[Chebyshov]

How much is Sansa an unreliable narrator though? We have two areas where she's "unreliable" - the UnKiss, where her romantic notions of chivalry take a turn for the slightly weird, and we have her Stockholm Syndrome way of dealing with Littlefinger in the Vale.

Neither suggest her account of the Purple Wedding is suspect.

Agreed. Also, wasn't it made explicit that it was a plot between LF and Olenna?

[Natmus]

Agreed. Also, wasn't it made explicit that it was a plot between LF and Olenna?

Well, Littlefinger insinuated as much to Sansa. In fact, most Tyrell-Littlefinger adherents use Littlefinger as the confirmation that it went down as planned and Joffrey was the target.

Personally, I hope that Tyrion in the books someday gets over his selfpity and use his brain again. When he reviews the wedding some day, he will realise that Joffrey actually took the bullet intended for Tyrion. The main suspect would be Littlefinger, of course, who not for the first time tries to get Tyrion in trouble (remember the dragonbone-hilted dagger?), and whoever was behind the kingsguard that turned on Tyrion on the Blackwater (Has anyone ever found hard evidence in that case?). Obviously, getting Tyrion assasinated would make Sansa a widow and get all the 'heir to Winterfell' into play again, apart from getting rid of an annoyingly clever person as Tyrion.

To me, I am still open to all possibilities. GRRM is certainly trying to misdirect readers in a certain direction, but I suspect that is just because he wants a big reveal later. But I think that the most commonly assumed Tyrell-Littlefinger-hairnet-wine plot is wrong. For a lot of reasons, and even more because Littlefinger himself tries to confirm it. Don't people know Littlefinger?

[Zande]

Fuck your theorys! :bang:

It was little******

[johndance]

I appreciate a good theory as much as anyone, but this one is pretty clear and is pretty explicit in the book if you actually read it properly.

LF conspired with Olenna/the Tyrells to have Joffrey killed. All due respect to those who agree with the theory the whole thing was meant to off Tyrion, but that's as crackpot as it gets imo.

It couldn't be more clear that LF supplied Dontos with the hair net that is given to Sansa. Olenna was nice enough to adjust the hair net for Sansa taking the small bead that contained 'the 'strangler', the extremely rare poison used to kill Joffrey. It's either Olenna, Margaery, or even Garlan who actually 'does' the deed. The only thing that can really be debated here is which of the Tyrells actually is the one who 'kills' Joffrey, and even then, it really doesn't matter. Aside from actually coming out himself and saying it, I don't think GRRM could have been more clear about this in the book.

[Chebyshov]

I appreciate a good theory as much as anyone, but this one is pretty clear and is pretty explicit in the book if you actually read it properly.

LF conspired with Olenna/the Tyrells to have Joffrey killed. All due respect to those who agree with the theory the whole thing was meant to off Tyrion, but that's as crackpot as it gets imo.

It couldn't be more clear that LF supplied Dontos with the hair net that is given to Sansa. Olenna was nice enough to adjust the hair net for Sansa taking the small bead that contained 'the 'strangler', the extremely rare poison used to kill Joffrey. It's either Olenna, Margaery, or even Garlan who actually 'does' the deed. The only thing that can really be debated here is which of the Tyrells actually is the one who 'kills' Joffrey, and even then, it really doesn't matter. Aside from actually coming out himself and saying it, I don't think GRRM could have been more clear about this in the book.

:agree: Well put.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I do believe it's LF but he's not exactly a reliable narrator. He claims to have slept with both Tully girls and he hasn't. He might be taking credit for something he didn't do, or it happened in a different matter.

[Zande]

It was Olenna and Littlefinger.

Littlefinger tells Sansa on page 768 of A Storm of Swords that he knows the murderer was the one who straightened out Sansa’s hairnet. How could he known this if he was not present at the feast? The only possible explanation is that he and Olenna had already planned it ahead of time.

No more theorys, end of discussion. :bang:

[Panserod]

Hello guys, registered just to post my guess!

I never read any of the books so all I have comes from the tv series...

Well my guess is tywin lannister killed Joffrey!

Don't know if someone post before, but it makes a lot of sense, he realized that Joffrey would be hard to deal, and by killing him he secured the iron throne for the lannister "forever" since the "batharion" blood is no more!

He got worried Because would Joffrey mary margery, and die after she had a son, the tyrell would be in the "ruling" position...

Also it will be way easier to have cersei as the ONLY queen ruling, and till she dies her sons will be older and (might) be better trained/fit to rule!

Don't ask me how he did it, cause by the scene in the wedding there were a lot of. Suspicious people doing suspicious things but he did it somehow :)

Sansa, Tyrion and olenna would be way to obvious to be the killer, twyn is just so above suspicious it might be the one

If this turns out to be true, ppl will come back and testify that I saw it comin ;)

If not, well I'm a dumb one hehe

[Barbossa]

Why would Olenna want him head? They helped the Lannisters keep the IT, if they didn't want to ally with them they could have simply not join them in defence of KL. Im pretty sure an assassin is cheaper then founding a war + a wedding.

Now on the other hand the Martells have all the reason in the world to kill him + they have Oberyn whos trained in poisoning people.

[John Hulboy]

I presumed it was the queen of thorns who put poison in wine that killed joffrey but I knew LF and all the tyrells played a role.

[Nahlim]

How much is Sansa an unreliable narrator though? We have two areas where she's "unreliable" - the UnKiss, where her romantic notions of chivalry take a turn for the slightly weird, and we have her Stockholm Syndrome way of dealing with Littlefinger in the Vale.

Neither suggest her account of the Purple Wedding is suspect.

That's just the thing. Those are the situations that we know she is unreliable. Are there any others?

I'm not saying this one is the case, I'm just wondering if it its possible that her POVs lead us on more often than just those two occasions. But that is a bit off topic now.

[Greywolf2375]

Why would Olenna want him head? They helped the Lannisters keep the IT, if they didn't want to ally with them they could have simply not join them in defence of KL. Im pretty sure an assassin is cheaper then founding a war + a wedding.

Now on the other hand the Martells have all the reason in the world to kill him + they have Oberyn whos trained in poisoning people.

Because Sansa provided to QoT & Marg what Joffrey is really like & both of them realize that he is almost certainly not going to be treating her well. They both realize that he also isn't exactly malleable & that Tommen would be much more willing to follow Marg's lead.

An assassin would be cheaper but then the Tyrells would not be married into the ruling family. The Tyrells are not doing this for revenge as the Martells are, they are doing this (did this) in order to get even more power.

[Lyanna Stark]

To me, I am still open to all possibilities. GRRM is certainly trying to misdirect readers in a certain direction, but I suspect that is just because he wants a big reveal later. But I think that the most commonly assumed Tyrell-Littlefinger-hairnet-wine plot is wrong. For a lot of reasons, and even more because Littlefinger himself tries to confirm it. Don't people know Littlefinger?

GRRM even stated in interviews that Olenna did it with LF's help, but I guess you lice in some sort of quantum parallels universe where everything is different and pigs fly?

The question you should ask is why LF would lie to Sansa, especially when he's so keen on gloating about the dwarves and what a bad person Tyrion is, and how lovely he himself is for saving Sansa from KL.

Besides, the only logical conclusion is LF (even aside that the author confirmed it) as he wants his hands on Cat 2.0. Occam's razor.

[ecchirebirth]

The thing I'm truly curious about is just how many people were aware of/complicit in the plot. Olenna, Margaery, Dontos and Littlefinger seem to be obvious, I wonder who else knew.

While Oberyn's knowledge of poisons (and his convenient arrival in King's Landing) does sway the finger at him somewhat, I don't think he has anything to do with it. Oberyn was there to kill the Mountain, and possibly Tywin had he survived. I don't think he gave a damn about any of the other Lannisters.

[Frey Kings]

I do believe it's LF but he's not exactly a reliable narrator. He claims to have slept with both Tully girls and he hasn't. He might be taking credit for something he didn't do, or it happened in a different matter.

LF has with Lysa, probably fooled around with Cat. He wanted more, thats where his obsession grew.

[Cas Stark]

My assertion that Margaery was extremely involved in the murder stems from this: The only way to be 100% sure that whatever poisoned Joffrey didn't also poison Margaery is if Margaery was the one who ultimately slipped Joffrey the poison. If anyone else did it, including Olenna, there would be some chance that Margaery would also take it. Margaery is probably also the only person to have the unfettered access to the chalice necessary to slip the poison.

Maybe. It stands to reason Marg was involved, but it's not 100 percent certain. QOT could have been keeping an eye on her and might have intervened to prevent her from drinking from it after the poison was dropped in, we don't know.

[Cas Stark]

I appreciate a good theory as much as anyone, but this one is pretty clear and is pretty explicit in the book if you actually read it properly.

LF conspired with Olenna/the Tyrells to have Joffrey killed. All due respect to those who agree with the theory the whole thing was meant to off Tyrion, but that's as crackpot as it gets imo.

It couldn't be more clear that LF supplied Dontos with the hair net that is given to Sansa. Olenna was nice enough to adjust the hair net for Sansa taking the small bead that contained 'the 'strangler', the extremely rare poison used to kill Joffrey. It's either Olenna, Margaery, or even Garlan who actually 'does' the deed. The only thing that can really be debated here is which of the Tyrells actually is the one who 'kills' Joffrey, and even then, it really doesn't matter. Aside from actually coming out himself and saying it, I don't think GRRM could have been more clear about this in the book.

Also, don't forget the foreshadowing from the Ghost of High Heart...who saw the girl with the purple serpents in her hair....

[Martin Rheaume]

The ONLY mystery here is the hair net. Why was the poison sneaked in using a hairnet when it could've easily been brought inside someone's pocket? That's it, and it's not exactly an essential mystery. Everything else is incredibly straight forward. The show helped confirm that it was QoT with a very conspicuous shot of her directly after the poisoning.