Jon Snow is Azor Ahai (the text proofs)

[bogdevil]

When Melisandre looks into her fires and asks to see Stannis, but only sees Snow, maybe it is Ramsay Snow. :dunno:

Maybe Stannis lost the battle and Mel can no longer see him since he is dead? :stillsick:

[danm_999]

When Melisandre looks into her fires and asks to see Stannis, but only sees Snow, maybe it is Ramsay Snow. :dunno:

She pretty clearly tells Devan in her POV;

“What do you see, my lady?” the boy asked, softly.

Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again. Jon Snow.

Melisandre then outright tells Jon in ADWD;

I see your face every time I look into the flames.

[Gi_Varotti]

Melisandre then outright tells Jon in ADWD;

The part about the skulls intrigues me. Would they be the bones of the fallen Starks in Winterfell's crypts or the dragons' skull in the dungeons beneath The Red Keep?

I was thinking about the dragon's 3 heads and I always saw this as they being the 3 riders but after finishing the books (and having more text proof that Jon is might be Rheagar & Lyanna's son) I payed more attention to Rhaegar's words and now I think that the 3 heads are his 3 children... who I believe only Jon is alive (I'm not buying Aegon's story).

Rhaegar appears in Daenerys Targaryen's vision in the House of the Undying. He's seen talking to his wife Elia discussing what he'll name his son (Aegon) and his destiny. He also states that...

"The Dragon has three heads, there must be one more".

In the House of the Undying she also sees Rhaegar's death at the ruby ford of the Trident at the hands of Robert Baratheon:

"Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name."

[Daenerys is my queen]

I think it's definitely very possible that Jon is AA. Especially since when Melisandre is looking for AA (who she thinks is Stannis) all she sees is Snow. Not snow, Snow. Although I also think Dany being AA is possible too. Maybe one of them can be AA and one can be the PtwP. :dunno:

[Gi_Varotti]

Although I also think Dany being AA is possible too. Maybe one of them can be AA and one can be the PtwP

Aren't they the same person? This is confusing.

[drigoly]

Aren't they the same person? This is confusing.

it's confirmed that they are one and the same person

[Gi_Varotti]

It is known then ;). Thanks Hedge Knight!

[Daenerys is my queen]

Aren't they the same person? This is confusing.

I'm confused too. I thought they were different people but I could be wrong.

[Wouter]

it's confirmed that they are one and the same person

Not quite. GRRM fairly recently gave an interview in which he seemed to imply they are one and the same, but the statement was sufficiently ambiguous that doubts remain. He didn't outright say "the PTWP and AA are the same".

[Gi_Varotti]

I'm confused too. I thought they were different people but I could be wrong.

According to Melisandre, they are the same person but then when you start reading other theories you come across the fact that Melisandre has been wrong before.

Plus, master Aemon tells Sam that he thinks that AA is Dany (when he says that dragons aren't male neither female) so, for more that I want Jon to be AA, I believe more in Aemon than I do in Melisandre. So maybe if they happen to be different people, Dany could be AA and Jon the Prince... ah, this is maddening! Until now we don't have enough proof to be sure of anything.

I was researching about Lightbringer and I found an interesting theory posted in another forum. The guy/gal said this:

My thoughts, assuming R+L=J : Lightbringer isn't a sword, it's a weapon made by Azor Ahai, but not necessarily used by him. Rhaegar was AA reborn. He created Jon Snow, the Lightbringer, whose birth resulted in the death of Lyanna (Nissa Nissa). Jon Snow will be the one who stops the Others and saves the realm. It's even in the NW oath. "I am the sword in the darkness." Jon's wounds were smoking. Maybe HE (or his blood) gives off the heat?

I've never thought about this until I read that post and now it sounds plausible enough for me.

There's also the Dawn sword (from House Dayne):

Dawn is the ancestral greatsword of House Dayne. It is said to be made from metal forged from the heart of a fallen star.

Last known user of the sword is Arthur Dayne, who died in Tower of Joy. After the fight, Eddard Stark rode to Starfall to deliver Arthur's sword Dawn to Arthur's sister Ashara Dayne.

Then if Dany is really Ashara's daughter, we have another connection... and then the Tower of Joy is where Ned found Lyanna dying, maybe after giving birth to Jon? (who only living witness now is Howland Reed).

Thing is, Dany and Jon's lives seem to be so connected that I can't wait to see a meeting between them.

[Real Heir of Bear Island]

Jon is by far my favorite character. The more I read the more I like him. With that beign said, there is just as much evidence out there that Dany and Stannis are AA reborn. I would love if it (assuming we do find out exactly who it is) turns out to be Arya, Sansa or Bran just to mess with everybody.

[Black Crow]

Its important to note the health warning which Mel gives herself before having another go at finding Stannis, that many a priest and priestess has been undone by looking for what they want to see rather than what R'hllor sends.

In this case she isn't looking for Azor Ahai, or rather she isn't asking to be shown who Azor Ahai is. She has already, rightly or wrongly, seen Stannis with his fiery sword fighting the good fight against the heathen. She doesn't need to know who Azor Ahai is because she's already sorted that bit. What she wants to see now is where he is and speaks of Azor Ahai and Stannis interchangeably beccause to her they are one and the same.

Instead Rhllor sends her all sorts of visions, and it isn't helped by Bloodraven breaking in, including a warning about Jon Snow, which we as readers know, having read all the way through to the end, is far more urgent than the update on Stannis' whereabouts that she wants to see.

The real question over that urgent warning is not whether she's being told she's got the wrong man (seems a bit late after all this time) but whether she is being warned that Jon is in danger or that those skulls indicate that he is dangerous.

[shk12344]

My view on AA prophesy is that Jon Snow will be reborn as his body is being cremated in a pyre. I imagine oil could be used to light up the pyre and one way to put out the oil-based fire is to use the salt. So you have a situation while Jon "wakes" from death and people around the pyre try to put out the fire with water and salt, thus creating smoke. Two ingredients needed to fulfill the prophesy. Red star, I suppose, could the comet, I'm not sure about that though. Mel will, of course, be there to witness "birth" of AA.

[The Wolves]

I hope he isn't nor do I care if he is or anybody else. I would prefer Dany to be AA or whoever so I hope it's Dany.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

Its important to note the health warning which Mel gives herself before having another go at finding Stannis, that many a priest and priestess has been undone by looking for what they want to see rather than what R'hllor sends.

In this case she isn't looking for Azor Ahai, or rather she isn't asking to be shown who Azor Ahai is. She has already, rightly or wrongly, seen Stannis with his fiery sword fighting the good fight against the heathen. She doesn't need to know who Azor Ahai is because she's already sorted that bit. What she wants to see now is where he is and speaks of Azor Ahai and Stannis interchangeably beccause to her they are one and the same.

Instead Rhllor sends her all sorts of visions, and it isn't helped by Bloodraven breaking in, including a warning about Jon Snow, which we as readers know, having read all the way through to the end, is far more urgent than the update on Stannis' whereabouts that she wants to see.

The real question over that urgent warning is not whether she's being told she's got the wrong man (seems a bit late after all this time) but whether she is being warned that Jon is in danger or that those skulls indicate that he is dangerous.

I think the skulls indicate resurrection, she see's them at hardehome where the people whp die will become wights, patchface who was resurrected from the sea, and Jon

[Cubicz]

Capital S or small s Snow, I dont know if Mel even really knows what she's doing. Maybe she's asking the wrong questions.

If Jon is AA, why did she never see his face before? Did she not see Stannis? I dislike her chapter in ADwD for this very reason. Seems to just be full of red herrings and GRRM wanting to throw us off the scent.

I'm still betting AA is Dany? Why else make her magically Fireproof and give her Dragons if not to fight Others (AA's job)

Sometimes, the obvious is boring, but makes sense from a writing point of view.

[Lion of Judah]

Well it's a toss up between Dany and Jon, I have a radical idea that the three headed dragon is actually a representation of the 3 magical elements we have seen in the books. 1) Dragons. 2) COTF. 3) R'hllor. The Targs never practiced the Red religion and that religion hails from Asshai not Valyria, yet they have dragons. The relation of fire is a clear link between the 2. When Aegon V was told the prophecy he wasn't told by a priest, he was told by a woods witch, a COTF. I hope AA is Dany, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's Jon.

[Gi_Varotti]

Jon is by far my favorite character. The more I read the more I like him. With that beign said, there is just as much evidence out there that Dany and Stannis are AA reborn. I would love if it (assuming we do find out exactly who it is) turns out to be Arya, Sansa or Bran just to mess with everybody.

Jon is my favourite character too and I hope it's him who'll be AA but if AA ends up being someone else (Arya would be ace; she's my 2nd favourite) I really hope Sansa isn't the chosen one! She is so dull, I hate her POVs. Plus, she was the one who gave out Ned's plan and didn't stand for Arya when Joffrey accused her and this is unforgivable! lol

And the Night's Watch oath is big give away, isn't it? "I am the sword in the darkness... I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers..."

What if there's something 'sleeping' in The Wall? Maybe it's not a dragon as I 1st thought, it could be a NW's army or even the Children of the Forest, couldn't it? (nevermind, maybe I'm the one who is overthinking :huh:).

Well it's a toss up between Dany and Jon, I have a radical idea that the three headed dragon is actually a representation of the 3 magical elements we have seen in the books. 1) Dragons. 2) COTF. 3) R'hllor. The Targs never practiced the Red religion and that religion hails from Asshai not Valyria, yet they have dragons. The relation of fire is a clear link between the 2. When Aegon V was told the prophecy he wasn't told by a priest, he was told by a woods witch, a COTF. I hope AA is Dany, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's Jon.

Maybe Bran is the one who'll see who will be AA.

And we all could be totally wrong and AA might be someone that hasn't even crossed our minds.

[LadyMary]

Its important to note the health warning which Mel gives herself before having another go at finding Stannis, that many a priest and priestess has been undone by looking for what they want to see rather than what R'hllor sends.

In this case she isn't looking for Azor Ahai, or rather she isn't asking to be shown who Azor Ahai is. She has already, rightly or wrongly, seen Stannis with his fiery sword fighting the good fight against the heathen. She doesn't need to know who Azor Ahai is because she's already sorted that bit. What she wants to see now is where he is and speaks of Azor Ahai and Stannis interchangeably beccause to her they are one and the same.

Instead Rhllor sends her all sorts of visions, and it isn't helped by Bloodraven breaking in, including a warning about Jon Snow, which we as readers know, having read all the way through to the end, is far more urgent than the update on Stannis' whereabouts that she wants to see.

The real question over that urgent warning is not whether she's being told she's got the wrong man (seems a bit late after all this time) but whether she is being warned that Jon is in danger or that those skulls indicate that he is dangerous.

Right. I think Melisandre is making the very mistake she was worried about. She knows the risks of being wrong and the pitfall of priest(esses) seeing what they want -or expect- to see instead of keeping their options open to new data from R'hollor. She believes Stannis is Azor Ahai and so she can't understand why she's getting all the images of Jon Snow when she asks for an update on Azor Ahai. There does seem to be more going on with Jon than just the possibility that he's AA. He's in danger and the skulls seem to be related to death in her visions, of course came true.

I'm actually intrigued by the idea that Rhaegar was AA, Lyanna was Nissa Nissa and their son Jon is Lightbringer. I hadn't considered that before, but it would be the sort of twist to the more literal interpretation that fits with how GRRMian prophesies play out. If Jon is a dragon by blood he may be woken from ice in flames of a funeral pyre, which is what I think will happen. The fact that he's also a warg with a connection to the old gods of the First Men ties him to the other myths about the Last Hero.

[Gi_Varotti]

I'm actually intrigued by the idea that Rhaegar was AA, Lyanna was Nissa Nissa and their son Jon is Lightbringer. I hadn't considered that before, but it would be the sort of twist to the more literal interpretation that fits with how GRRMian prophesies play out. If Jon is a dragon by blood he may be woken from ice in flames of a funeral pyre, which is what I think will happen. The fact that he's also a warg with a connection to the old gods of the First Men ties him to the other myths about the Last Hero.

That's a brilliant theory, right?

I agree and I'm almost a 100% sure that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. But when I thought about the fire I remembered the burn that he got on his hand when he fought the other to save Mormont... that is confusing because when Dany put one of her eggs in the fire her hands got absolutely no burning marks while one of her handmaidens (I can't remember which one) got a nasty burn. So, following this line, Jon's hand shouldn't have burnt, should it?