MyLittleDirewolf Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 This has been bugging since I read the chapter. I don't understand how each castle can keep ravens that are trained to go to a specific castle. What happens when say your Winterfell ravens are all gone, how do you get new ones? I kind of assumed the ravens were like Harry Potter owls and went where ever they were told to go. The TWOW chapter makes them sound more like carrier pigeons, which is more realistic I guess, but I just don't know how it works. I mean, all the incoming ravens were trained to go to your castle, so how do you get them back? Or are they trained to go back to where they came from, but it says that only some ravens can go to two castles. IDK... feeling the stupid, like I'm missing something here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptowngbv Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Just read that part of the chapter again. When the maester talks about a raven only being able to fly to one castle I take that to mean that a Winterfell raven who is trained to fly to Riverrun can also make the return trip. I think the idea of a raven being able to fly to more than one castle would be like a Winterfell raven sent to Riverrun and back and then to KL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 The ravens that learn more than one destination are very much the exception. Most ravens only know how to return to a single place, presumably where they were raised or trained.I assume that there is a common understanding among people that ravens should be exchanged whenever the chance arises, perhaps by the Maesters themselves. Everyone who uses ravens has an interest in making those who return to their own place available, so that would work.I may be wrong, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 A few ravens could fly both ways, but almost any had to be carried back just like carrier pigeons. So, every few months or years, a guy packs some horses full of wicker cages with ravens and makes a trip to the respective castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptowngbv Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 A few ravens could fly both ways, but almost any had to be carried back just like carrier pigeons. So, every few months or years, a guy packs some horses full of wicker cages with ravens and makes a trip to the respective castle.There's logic to that idea, but do you have a source for that? It seems there would need to be a huge amount of ravens at each castle at all times. Read the Griffin Reborn chapter in ADWD. The halfmaester is able to bring Connington up to speed about all the recent and current events from all of the ravens from several different sources. That's a lot of birds sitting around waiting to be picked up and carried home. And all of the turmoil over the past several years would likely mean that several castles would not be able to move their ravens back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 There's logic to that idea, but do you have a source for that? It seems there would need to be a huge amount of ravens at each castle at all times. Read the Griffin Reborn chapter in ADWD. The halfmaester is able to bring Connington up to speed about all the recent and current events from all of the ravens from several different sources. That's a lot of birds sitting around waiting to be picked up and carried home. And all of the turmoil over the past several years would likely mean that several castles would not be able to move their ravens back and forth.Yes. Benjen does take a bunch of ravens from Winterfell to the Wall in Game.Until now, every single rookery we heard of belonged to an important Lord, a former important Lord (Griffins Roost only), the Citadel itself or the Nights Watch. These guys can afford a lot of ravens and a lot of men carrying them back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zupoleon Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I have to assume they are able to make the return leg of their trips, while only a few special ravens can actually travel to multiple destinations and back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I have to assume they are able to make the return leg of their trips, while only a few special ravens can actually travel to multiple destinations and back...That is quite clearly wrong, proven by the Winds chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptowngbv Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 That is quite clearly wrong, proven by the Winds chapter.Okay, I've changed my mind. Stannis asks Tybald if the ravens would return to the Dreadfort or go to Winterfell. It would seem there's only one possibility. Since the ravens presumably came from the Dreadfort, it stands to reason that they're specially trained to fly to Winterfell and no other place.So, it seems that if a raven is trained to fly to Winterfell you could take it anywhere in Westeros and it would find its way to Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyLittleDirewolf Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Hmmm... I think it worked better in my head when I thought of them as just being able to go anywhere because fantasy world. So I guess some raven collectors go around gathering up the ravens and distributing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zupoleon Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 That is quite clearly wrong, proven by the Winds chapter.Must've forgotten about that. I stand corrected... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 If you just look up how carrier pigeons work, it's pretty much the same thing. The ravens have a "home" base (and I assume that the major families have multiple ravens whose "home" bases are their vassals' castles), and need to be returned "by hand" to the castle of their origin. So if Luwin sends a raven from Winterfell to Deepwood Motte — Deepwood Motte being the raven's "home" base — someone would eventually have to take the bird back to Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 At one point the use of ravens was more fantasy-like since the COTF taught the First Men how to talk to ravens (warging or something similar to warging). But that was forgotten are replaced with maester techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 It was always obvious to me - even before the Winds chapter - that Ravens operated exactly like carrier pigeons.Hence you have to think twice before sending off a bunch of trivial messages to a vassal, because I imagine that say Winterfells rookery holds at most 500 ravens, meaning that if there are 50 destinations they can reach, there can't be more than 10 ravens for each destination. Once they're used up, you need to send more ravens by wagon from their place of birth, to replenish those sent off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Stannis turned to Davos. "The maester tells me that we have one hundred seventeen ravens on hand. I mean to use them all. One hundred seventeen ravens will carry one hundred seventeen copies of my letter to every corner of the realm, from the Arbor to the Wall. Perhaps a hundred will win through against storm and hawk and arrow." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Stannis turned to Davos. "The maester tells me that we have one hundred seventeen ravens on hand. I mean to use them all. One hundred seventeen ravens will carry one hundred seventeen copies of my letter to every corner of the realm, from the Arbor to the Wall. Perhaps a hundred will win through against storm and hawk and arrow." One hundred seventeen ravens or destinations for one hundred seventeen ravens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lpearce7 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I think that a raven has one and only one place it can fly. So you'd have to have transports.But, it seems like a great way to learn secrets. (Varys' other "little bird")All you would have to do is have a couple birds from your Lord's castle, find the guy doing the transporting, happen to have a few skins of wine and get him drunk, and when he wakes up in the morning there's 4 King's Landing birds mixed in with two dozen Riverrun birds. Or, if the maester was in on it, he could just see all the wrong birds. This is something the maesters have almost complete control of. Might be a good reason that the BWB can't be found, since they don't use ravens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boojam Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 This has been bugging since I read the chapter. I don't understand how each castle can keep ravens that are trained to go to a specific castle. What happens when say your Winterfell ravens are all gone, how do you get new ones? I kind of assumed the ravens were like Harry Potter owls and went where ever they were told to go. The TWOW chapter makes them sound more like carrier pigeons, which is more realistic I guess, but I just don't know how it works. I mean, all the incoming ravens were trained to go to your castle, so how do you get them back? Or are they trained to go back to where they came from, but it says that only some ravens can go to two castles. IDK... feeling the stupid, like I'm missing something here.You know , in at least one interview, George mentions raven logistics too, especially that they seem to get around at the speed of light!My impression is George left raven operations as a problem for the reader to solve, he's got bigger fish to fry. (If he ever does!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redriver Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 To help with the logistics problems,I think a rule is that if you receive a raven,you have to send it back,not keep it.This system is based on trust.And like our own financial system,it works perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrionsFlagon Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I wouldn't bother too much with the ravens. It's just something we have to accept. First of all, who trained the ravens? Did a maester show them how to get from Oldtown to Winterfell? How do you train a raven?Don't think too much about it, and just accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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