Cricket XIV

[The Winged Shadow]

And poor old Hasan might want to consider changing his speciality: figures of 0-113 on debut at over four runs per over.

:lol: So true. He looked so much more confident in batting than bowling. And his figures show it too!

Shakib and Nasir holding the WI onslaught. 159/5. Best was killing it, depsite a hamstring issue.

[Jeor]

Well a draw is definitely out of the question now. Two days to go and 15 more wickets to fall for a result (or less if South Africa chase successfully).

A lead of 273 is probably going to be ok to defend anyway. The pitch isn't deteriorating much but South Africa's batting is much less secure without Kallis in the middle order (if he doesn't take the field much presumably he will have to bat lower down again) and in the pressure of a chase, I don't see them doing it. Smith led a successful chase on the last tour with a century, but if he doesn't score I don't think they'll make it. De Villiers doesn't look in great form, and Amla is more a table-setter than a chaser (I'm not sure what the numbers are, and they might prove me wrong, but with his style of batting I would tend to assume his first innings scores are better than his second innings).

While 369 has been chased here before (famously Langer/Gilchrist against Pakistan in the early 2000s I think) I think the South Africans really have to limit the target to 320 to give themselves any chance. The one thing that might help them is if Pattinson's condition prevents him from bowling. Without Watson, we don't have a backup, and handy as Clarke and co. might be for getting a few overs in, I doubt they'll be able to adequately fill in as fourth bowlers.

Poor Quiney with 9, 0, 0 has fluffed his chance. He'll have to hope Watson injures himself again this week. ;)

[Xray the Enforcer]

Worth noting though that Australia would never have enforced the follow-on in any case - you never want to bat last at the Adelaide Oval.

Cool. Could you explain why? (sorry, I am just a complete n00b at this) Is this like having certain baseball parks be hitters' parks v. pitchers' parks?

(edited for idiocy)

[ljkeane]

Cool. Could you explain why? (sorry, I am just a complete n00b at this) Is this like having certain baseball parks be hitters' parks v. batters' parks?

In terms of the pitch it's how much it deteriorates as the match goes on. It's almost always going to be easier to take wickets in the fourth innings than the first, how much easier depends on the particular pitch you're playing on. So if you think it's going to get a lot harder to bat on you want to avoid batting last and in this case considering one of their bowlers was struggling with an injury Australia certainly would have wanted to give the other three a rest.

[Xray the Enforcer]

Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the explanation.

[williamjm]

England actually looking pretty good, Pietersen and Cook both looking settled against the three spinners. Has the potential to be a great test match.

Tomorrow morning could be the crucial session. If Cook and/or Pietersen get out quickly then that exposes England's lower middle order of Bairstow (who batted very well in his last Test, but has no real experience of Indian conditions) and Patel (who has yet to really score any Test runs). I think either Cook or Pietersen need to make a big innings tomorrow if England want to be competitive in this match.

[My name is Reek]

I thought KP retired?

[The Marquis de Leech]

Can we just abolish the New Zealand cricket team? I mean, collapsing against a first-rate attack is one thing, but collapsing like that is quite another.

[Jeor]

The other thing Xray is that Adelaide is usually considered a batsman's paradise so it's unlikely the follow-on would be used, as a team following-on has a greater chance of batting itself out of trouble and running the opposing bowlers into the ground. Most Australian pitches are good for batting but even amongst them, Adelaide probably stands out as the ground that most heavily favours batting. It may sound weird, but usually each ground has a 'head curator' in charge of preparing the pitch, and as these guys have usually been in their jobs for a very long time, each ground sort of takes on the personality of its curator and the local conditions (eg typical weather, size of ground, etc). Rough guide to Australian pitches:

Brisbane (the Gabba) - favours seam bowling and a little bit of swing. Usually a bit of grass on the pitch helps seamers, and morning sessions at the Gabba are usually the ones to watch out for with wickets falling (although obviously not this latest Test!). Shane Warne (spinner) liked the ground too though.

Adelaide Oval - known as a road, a batsman's paradise. Lots of runs in the pitch.

Perth (WACA) - in the 1980s and 90s had a reputation as the fastest wicket in the world with plenty of bounce. The Fremantle doctor (a constant ocean breeze) assists pace bowlers as well, frequently the fastest balls in Australia have been bowled here when pace bowlers have the wind and pitch assisting them. In recent times it has 'slowed down' a bit so it doesn't quite have the reputation for pace that it once did, but it's still a reasonably bouncy pitch.

Sydney (SCG) - has a reputation as the spinner's ground. Frequently Australian and visiting teams would try to work two frontline spinners into their lineups specifically for the Sydney Test.

Melbourne (MCG) - probably the most well-rounded pitch in Australia, helping out batsmen, pace and spin.

There's also Hobart (Bellerive Oval) which doesn't always make it onto the fixture list, I actually don't know much about that ground...

[Xray the Enforcer]

:cheers:

Thank you Jeor! That helps a lot when I hear people talking about one ground vs. another. :)

[williamjm]

I thought KP retired?

He retired from limited over games and then later got suspended from playing in Tests, I don't think he ever retired from Tests, although it's hard to keep track of everything he does. After being suspended he announced he was unretiring from limited over games and according to the ECB he's now been 'reintegrated' back into the England team.

There's also Hobart (Bellerive Oval) which doesn't always make it onto the fixture list, I actually don't know much about that ground...

I seem to remember that during the last Ashes series England's final warm-up game was there and there were some comments that Australia may have chosen it as a venue because it was most like a typical English ground that suits swing bowling and if you're going to have to give your opponents a warm-up match it's not a bad idea to have them warm-up somewhere that's unlike the other grounds they'll be playing on.

[Jeor]

Cheers Xray. :) Will, Re: Hobart, that sounds right. Being further south than any of the other Australian cities, Hobart's climate and weather is much closer to England's than the typical dry heat of the other grounds, so I wouldn't be surprised if it swung a bit down there.

[Jeor]

The lead is now 358, I think Australia can count themselves pretty secure.

It doesn't look like Pattinson is going to be able to bowl in the second innings though, so they'll probably want to play it safe - with plenty of time left in the innings, they may as well bat on as long as they can and push on for 400+.

[Stubby]

Perth (WACA) - in the 1980s and 90s had a reputation as the fastest wicket in the world with plenty of bounce. The Fremantle doctor (a constant ocean breeze) assists pace bowlers as well, frequently the fastest balls in Australia have been bowled here when pace bowlers have the wind and pitch assisting them. In recent times it has 'slowed down' a bit so it doesn't quite have the reputation for pace that it once did, but it's still a reasonably bouncy pitch.

Just to painfully precise, the Doctor is not contant. It usually comes in early afternoon. It was quite usual, playing cricket back in the day, for the first session to be still, hot and horrible. It's when the breeze comes in early (around lunchtime) that the WACA gets really scary, expecially if it's the first day and the pitch is a bit green.

[Xray the Enforcer]

Another dumb question -- so what happens to the pitch as it "deteriorates"? Does it get compacted, or bumpy, or uneven or all of the above? And that usually makes things harder for your...pace bowlers? spinners?

[The Marquis de Leech]

Another dumb question -- so what happens to the pitch as it "deteriorates"? Does it get compacted, or bumpy, or uneven or all of the above? And that usually makes things harder for your...pace bowlers? spinners?

Deteriorates: cracks start to appear, bounce becomes more unpredictable, Helps spinners (the ball can do strange things if it hits the cracks). That's why it's generally considered tough to bat on the last day of a test match.

[Xray the Enforcer]

Ah, cool. :cheers:

[The Winged Shadow]

Another dumb question -- so what happens to the pitch as it "deteriorates"? Does it get compacted, or bumpy, or uneven or all of the above? And that usually makes things harder for your...pace bowlers? spinners?

Usually it doesn't compact all that much because the bowlers shoes are spiked, so while the extra weight of the bowler landing on pitch does produce a bit of compaction of the soil, the spikes tends to rough up the pitch. If you can see a live match, keep an eye out on where the (fast) bowler lands after he releases the ball, and you will see a patch of rough spot. Spinners can take advantage of the rough spot to get more spin, or even unpredictable spin, depending on the type of spinner, seam position, angling of the ball etc. Depending on where the rough spot is, pace bowlers may be able to utilize it as well, because sometimes the ball hits the rough and stays unusually low or do other weird things.

As the pitch deteriorates, cracks start to appear. Both fast and spin bowlers can start to take advantage of it, but it can be a bit unpredicatable once the ball hits the crack. For fast bowlers, you can get really sharp swing on the ball that you wouldn't normally get with, assuming the ball lands on the crack at a relatively favorable position.

[Xray the Enforcer]

God I love this board. I ask n00b questions and people give me well-considered informative answers. :love:

So, when do people think AUS will declare?

I see Jeor thinks they'll go for 400+.

How much longer will they go? (It's 427 now)

[My name is Reek]

Looking at the stats the highest successful chase was Aus in 1902 when they recorded 6/315 (to win at Adelaide). However the highest fourth innings total at Adelaide was by India with 445 in 1978, they still lost. So historically it will be very very difficult to chase the Australian total..so I believe it wont be too long now till they declare. Aus need to give themselves enough time to bowl SA out.