What in ASOIAF did you feel was CONTRIVED?

[King Daemon Blackfyre]

Dany cheating masters in Astapor. Seriously, in a whole history of ancient city no slave master of Unsullied thought: hey, what if somebody buys lots and lots of Unsullied and turns them on us, to avoid payment, and so nobody else can buy any unsullied? How 'bout we teach Unsullied not to ever attack US, just in case, you know?

This. By the Seven, this. Awesome, epic scene, but totally contrived. How much dumber can these slavers get?

[Ingelheim]

Dany became contrived in ADWD

[straits]

Dany became contrived in ADWD

She became really static in aDwD :(

[Faceless Bran]

If Tryion and Penny end up in love, so help me!!

[The Marquis de Leech]

Then you and mr. Bolton's leech didn't pay too much attention to the storyline? Ser Piggy rigged the election with his lobbying, while Mormont's Raven (Brynden Rivers) influenced the voting. That there were so few good candidates is entirely not surprising. Mallister and Pyke were senior rangers, but they'd never vote for each other. Slynt was a total newcomer and not populair outside the Bowenians and other sycophants. Jon Snow was at least from the loins of the lord of Winterfell. He would've been LC anyway some day, just like Old Bear was grooming him to be.

Had Mallister or Pyke had half a brain, they'd try to verify the story, which would've undid Sam's efforts. However, let's pretend that this oh-so-convenient voting situation was unresolvable. Under such a situation, the logical solution would be to pick an elderly seat warmer who can sit the chair for a couple of years until everyone tries again. Picking Jon essentially means that they're stuck with this choice for half a century - a young compromise candidate makes no sense.

This also ignores Jon's politically toxic status. Picking him was tantamount to giving Tywin Lannister the fingers: not a wise move if the Watch wants help from King's Landing. Nor has Jon been on the Wall for any significant length of time - he's nearly as much a newbie as Slynt (why not pick Dolorous Ed? He's a noble, so can read and write, and he's served longer than either Jon or Slynt).

Finally, this situation only arose because of LC Mormont's utterly daft decision to take as many candidates with him as humanly possible. Thus creating the impression that the entire process was ridiculously contrived.

[Independent George]

Unless they spend all their time at high altitudes, the hot sun and dry winds of the Dornish desert ought to do a number on their pale skins. Yet, I don't remember even Aerys Oakheart having trouble with dry, cracking skin or sunburns. :P

That's pretty much exactly how GRRM described them, though.

There were three sorts of Dornishmen, the first King Daeron had observed. there were the salty Dornishmen who lived along the coasts, the sandy Dornishmen of the deserts and long river valleys, and the stony Dornishmen who made their fastnesses in the passes and heights of the Red Mountains. The salty Dornishmen had the most Rhoynish blood, the stony Dornishmen the least.

All three sorts seemed well represented in Doran's retinue. The salty Dornishmen were lithe and dark, with smooth olive skin and long black hair streaming in the wind. The sandy Dornishmen were even darker, their faces burned brown by the hot Dornish sun. They wound long bright scarfs around their helms to ward off sunstroke. The stony Dornishmen were biggest and fairest, sons of the Andals and the First Men, brown-haired or blond, with faces that freckled or burned in the sun instead of browning.

[Winter's Knight]

That's pretty much exactly how GRRM described them, though.

Well that's me told. Thanks!:D

[Dolorous K Dilkington]

only 1 mention of maggi the frog in 3 pages.

[LordBloodraven]

Jeyne Westerling: yeah Robb took her maidenhood but she took his maidenhood too. It was mutual so why dickhead Robb felt obliged to break his marriage pact with the Freys to keep her honour? What about his?

The valyrian dagger: So basically Tyrion knew that LF framed him but did nothing?

How WF was sacked. Felt as a necessary plot point (for Bran to go beyond the Wall and Robb's position to be weakened).

[Ice Turtle]

only 1 mention of maggi the frog in 3 pages.

I still hope the whole prophecy is just Cersei misremembering things, it's just way too much like out of Snow White.

[Winter's Knight]

I still hope the whole prophecy is just Cersei misremembering things, it's just way too much like out of Snow White.

Somebody get Cersei a talking mirror she can snipe at. Preferably the one from Shrek.

[NewJeffCT]

I thought Tyrion meeting up with Ser Jorah in Sellhorys was a bit contrived.

That people keep meeting at the inn at the crossroads feels contrived as well - one time is okay, but it seems like everybody meets there.

I don't feel the Jon-Ygritte story was contrived. Jon is what 17 years old? In a horde of 50,000 wildings, there are bound to be more than a few women that would stir his loins... how many 17 year olds would turn that down?

(My problem is that he says he broke his vows with Ygritte - the vows say "take no wife, hold no lands, father no children" - they don't say you can't have sex?)

[Winter's Knight]

I don't feel the Jon-Ygritte story was contrived. Jon is what 17 years old? In a horde of 50,000 wildings, there are bound to be more than a few women that would stir his loins... how many 17 year olds would turn that down?

(My problem is that he says he broke his vows with Ygritte - the vows say "take no wife, hold no lands, father no children" - they don't say you can't have sex?)

He was fourteen to Yritte's nineteen actually. There's a certain creep factor there.

[Cruella]

I don't have much time now to address everything, but really?

Cersei was so angry at seeing bastard Aurane Waters at court, she made him sit on small council. Clearly bastards are tortured and shunned at court, except for when they are asked to help rule the kingdom.

Lord Frey's bastard became a knight and is confidant of one of his brothers. Even though Lord Frey has like million children and is nothing compared to Ned. But no, Jon has no future outside of the watch. Even though his dad is multi millionaire Duke, best friend of a king (who has tons of bastards himself) and Prime Minister of the country. Everyone is out to alienate children of such men. Because it is very wise, good for your political future and productive. Nobody at all would think it's wise to suck up to him to win favor with Ned.

if Jon doesn't want to serve one of the Lords and become a knight, like Walder Rivers, let Ned buy him profitable business or whatever. Or arrange nice marriage for Jon, relative to his status.

Westeros has pretty sweet upward mobility, perhaps unrealistic, but there is no reason to think that educated man with a sword can't get very lucky, and that's eve if he's not beloved relative of Duke of the North and his heir. People who fought defending KL from Stannis got quite a lot out of it, afterall.

So, some people in KL could say something nasty to Jon, which was told to be one of the reasons. Instead, he was frozing his balls off at the Wall, insulted by rapers and gutter rats.

Why would Jon even need to stay in Red Keep? Ned could buy him a house in KL, he's westerosi version of millionaire.

As for Tyrion's travel, some person wiser than me pointed out how timing doesn't really work here.

yeah, Jorah and Tyrion as well. There are only so many coincidences that make sense.

[NewJeffCT]

He was fourteen to Yritte's nineteen actually. There's a certain creep factor there.

creepy because it was an older woman, or creepy because he was so young? What about Littlefinger and The Hound lusting after Sansa, who is younger than Jon? Or, Drogo and Dany, who was 13 to start AGOT? Drogo is what - late 20s or early 30s?

I think by the time A Clash of Kings starts, Jon is 15, but I could be mistaken.

[Winter's Knight]

creepy because it was an older woman, or creepy because he was so young? What about Littlefinger and The Hound lusting after Sansa, who is younger than Jon? Or, Drogo and Dany, who was 13 to start AGOT? Drogo is what - late 20s or early 30s?

Agr-wise. And you hear me roar about Dany/Drogo, SanSan and LF/Sansa. Especially Dany/Drogo.

I also dislike how predatory Ygritte comes across as-she simply wouldn't take no for an answer.

I think by the time A Clash of Kings starts, Jon is 15, but I could be mistaken.

I'd disagree-he is sixteen in Dance, which is two years after GoT. Very little time passes between ACoK and AGoT.

[straits]

Agr-wise. And you hear me roar about Dany/Drogo, SanSan and LF/Sansa. Especially Dany/Drogo.

I also dislike how predatory Ygritte comes across as-she simply wouldn't take no for an answer.

I'd disagree-he is sixteen in Dance, which is two years after GoT. Very little time passes between ACoK and AGoT.

sixteen in dance?? WTF GRRM

[DaveSnow House Stark]

Some of the Dany stuff after getting her army is weak. I also have to agree with the whole, Jon has no future other than the wall. He is a high born bastard, raised with his family, educated and trained as a knight.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Never really felt the Lord Commander election was particularly contrived. Even if Mallister and Pyke found out they were being played, I imagine they were intelligent enough to see the necessity of not electing Slynt.

If anything in the Jon plot is/was contrived, then it's probably the Great Ranging, which eliminated all the realistic candidates to replace Mormont (along with Mormont himself).

[Kittykatknits]

I know this doesn't technically count but I feel compelled to list it anyways, this bit always stands out to me. Seems so painful and awkward. How much practicing would be required to pull this move off?

But, the bit in Dance when Xaro and Dany are watching the slave dancers. The women suddenly leap up and impale themselves on the fully erect penises of the dancing men.

I mean what?