What in ASOIAF did you feel was CONTRIVED?

[Datepalm]

I admit I both wtf'ed and winced at that. So much potential for so much pain there.

[Winter's Knight]

I know this doesn't technically count but I feel compelled to list it anyways, this bit always stands out to me. Seems so painful and awkward. How much practicing would be required to pull this move off?

But, the bit in Dance when Xaro and Dany are watching the slave dancers. The women suddenly leap up and impale themselves on the fully erect penises of the dancing men.

I mean what?

My understanding was that the men caught the women mid-air and err..positioned them.

ETA: Here.

As the drums reached a crescendo, three of the girls leapt above the flames, spinning in the air.

The male dancers caught them about the waists and slid them down onto their members. Dany watched as the women arched their backs and coiled their legs around their partners while the flutes wept and the men thrust in time to the music.

[littleRickon]

Who really ever argued that Jon had no future besides the watch? I don't think I read that in the books. What I got from reading was that the unexpected being pronounced Hand and going to King's Landing put The Ned in a real bind with regards to Jon. He didn't want to take him along, probably more due to "promise me, Ned" then actual doubts about his bastardness, and Catelyn didn't want to have him in WF. Then all of a sudden Jon himself comes up with his idea to go to the Wall, which again doesn't necessarily have to be an informed decision, but it serves to fix the immediate dilemma, so Ned goes along with it.

I see Jon ending up at the Wall due to extraordinary circumstances, not because that was the only path left to him in his life. Thus, it isn't contrived.

[Summer is Ending]

Then you and mr. Bolton's leech didn't pay too much attention to the storyline? Ser Piggy rigged the election with his lobbying, while Mormont's Raven (Brynden Rivers) influenced the voting. That there were so few good candidates is entirely not surprising. Mallister and Pyke were senior rangers, but they'd never vote for each other. Slynt was a total newcomer and not populair outside the Bowenians and other sycophants. Jon Snow was at least from the loins of the lord of Winterfell. He would've been LC anyway some day, just like Old Bear was grooming him to be.

The sad fact was that most of the senior rangers were dead by then anyway. If Qhorin had still been alive for example he'd have been chosen. The only other really good candidate was Dolorous Edd, but he already said he'd refuse to serve...

There is a failure in reading comprehension whenever it comes to the Watch.

The Night’s Watch is dying. Our strength is less than a thousand now. Six hundred here, two hundred in the Shadow Tower, even fewer at Eastwatch, and a scant third of those fighting men.

...

Too old and too weary for the burden I bear, yet if I set it down, who will pick it up? Alliser Thorne? Bowen Marsh? I would have to be as blind as Maester Aemon not to see what they are. The Night’s Watch has become an army of sullen boys and tired old men. Apart from the men at my table tonight, I have perhaps twenty who can read, and even fewer who can think, or plan, or lead.

That's the Watch at the strongest we see it in the books. Only a third fit for fighting out of less than a thousand. How many went on the ranging again. You unfortunately have to pay attention to what's written but it's all there from Game to Dance, the NW is a crippled beast and yes Jon, raised right alongside the heir to Winterfell and given the exact same lessons, is the best choice to lead the cripples and bastards and broken things still left.

[Kittykatknits]

My understanding was that the men caught the women mid-air and err..positioned them.

ETA: Here.

Thanks. Don't think that changes the awkward, contrived feel to it. And the thrusting in time to the music sounds hilarious.

[Summer is Ending]

Agr-wise. And you hear me roar about Dany/Drogo, SanSan and LF/Sansa. Especially Dany/Drogo.

I also dislike how predatory Ygritte comes across as-she simply wouldn't take no for an answer.

I'd disagree-he is sixteen in Dance, which is two years after GoT. Very little time passes between ACoK and AGoT.

“I am almost a man grown,” Jon protested. “I will turn fifteen on my next name day, and Maester Luwin says bastards grow up faster than other children.”

...

“He said he’d be back by my name day,” he admitted. His name day had come and gone, unremarked, a fortnight past.

[Winter's Knight]

“I am almost a man grown,” Jon protested. “I will turn fifteen on my next name day, and Maester Luwin says bastards grow up faster than other children.”

...

“He said he’d be back by my name day,” he admitted. His name day had come and gone, unremarked, a fortnight past.

All right, fifteen and nineteen. Still creepy.

[Djinn]

-Slaver's Bay. The culture, the people, the economy. Everything is cartoonish and contrieved.

-Balon. His plans, choices and atitudes. How this guy manage to rule over a beast like Vic, sly Euron or fanatic Aeron is beyond me.

-Stoneheart. Crappy way of making up for all the crap Cat got.

-Sand Snakes. Expert female badasses out of the assembly line.

-Robb at the Golden Tooth. Direwolf find passage that the mative westernmen didn't knew.

-Lysa remote control of the Vale. They don't like her but all do what she says anyway.

-Tywin military use of gold. Richest man in Westeros, and the Bloody Murmers is the only use of sellswords you do?!

[danm_999]

Had Mallister or Pyke had half a brain, they'd try to verify the story, which would've undid Sam's efforts. However, let's pretend that this oh-so-convenient voting situation was unresolvable. Under such a situation, the logical solution would be to pick an elderly seat warmer who can sit the chair for a couple of years until everyone tries again. Picking Jon essentially means that they're stuck with this choice for half a century - a young compromise candidate makes no sense.

This also ignores Jon's politically toxic status. Picking him was tantamount to giving Tywin Lannister the fingers: not a wise move if the Watch wants help from King's Landing. Nor has Jon been on the Wall for any significant length of time - he's nearly as much a newbie as Slynt (why not pick Dolorous Ed? He's a noble, so can read and write, and he's served longer than either Jon or Slynt).

Finally, this situation only arose because of LC Mormont's utterly daft decision to take as many candidates with him as humanly possible. Thus creating the impression that the entire process was ridiculously contrived.

There's a flipside to all these impressions of course.

Mallister or Pyke didn't try and bother to verify Sam's story because they believed he was working on behalf of Maester Aemon, and to move against him would have been a blunder that would have compromised their standings beyond just the election.

They picked Jon, someone young, because they believed more in the integrity of the Watch and need for stable and continuous leadership than their own politicking, and they weren't looking to run again. Essentially, they told Sam they would seriously consider a candidate other than their opponent, and this turned out to be true.

Jon's toxic status is not toxic at all. He was Mormont's squire; symbolism not lost on either Pyke or Mallister. He also had the trust of Donal Noye and Maester Aemon, and the people most loudly complaining about him were Janos Slynt, an outsider, and Allister Thorne, a notorious shitbag that everybody hated. In addition, he had held the Wall and had the admiration of half of Castle Black.

Concerning Tywlin Lannister; Mallister is from the Riverlands, and Pyke from the Iron Islands, neither of which would give much care about pissing off Tywin Lannister, who was never a friend to the Watch, and Jon represented the only significant power that did favour the Watch, Winterfell.

So really, it's not all that ridiculous.

[MostInterestingManWesteros]

I would find R + L = J to be extremely contrived if it turns out to be true.

[StarkRedrum]

Unless they spend all their time at high altitudes, the hot sun and dry winds of the Dornish desert ought to do a number on their pale skins. Yet, I don't remember even Aerys Oakheart having trouble with dry, cracking skin or sunburns. :P

Well, I live in Qatar (which is basically a desert), I spend a lot of time under the sun but I'm still pale and never had any skin problems. So I guess its normal?

[NewJeffCT]

All right, fifteen and nineteen. Still creepy.

Well, in modern times, it is creepy, though not as creepy as Drogo/Dany (13) or Littlefinger/Sansa (12 in AGOT, but 13/14 by the end of ASOS).

However, for GRRM's world, I think that sort of age difference is not unusual.

[PatrickStormborn]

• Jon being elected Lord Commander
  
• Robb marrying Jeyne Westerling
  
• Maggy the Frog
  
• Dany ruling that the freedwoman who was raped by her master was not actually raped
  
• Arya not travelling to the Wall from Braavos
  

I know this doesn't technically count but I feel compelled to list it anyways, this bit always stands out to me. Seems so painful and awkward. How much practicing would be required to pull this move off?

But, the bit in Dance when Xaro and Dany are watching the slave dancers. The women suddenly leap up and impale themselves on the fully erect penises of the dancing men.

I mean what?

"The sight of their arousal was arousing."

??????????

Is GRRM trolling us or did he honestly think that was a good line?

[Daenerys is my queen]

Aegon, Daario, that's really it.

[Winter's Knight]

"The sight of their arousal was arousing."

??????????

Is GRRM trolling us or did he honestly think that was a good line?

After such gems like "her cunt became the whole world", "fat pink mast", "myrish swamp" and "was there ever a woman with nipples so large or so responsive", I'm surprised that that one even registered with you.

[Lonin]

I dont know how the OP meant it, but I dont always use contrived as a pejorative. I see many see it that way. GRRM decided to move some of the younger character strory arcs along rather rapidily resulting in some somewhat contrived plotlines.

Jon becoming LC is somewhat contrived... that there was no logical 2nd, 3rd, 4th in command to step up seemed forced to me.

Dany roaming around Essos with 3 baby dragons, the only dragons in the world, that when grown (and trained) will make her (or whoever had them) the most powerful person(s) in the world... that no one thought kill them and take the dragons seemed strange to me.

[Blood of the Trout]

Balon's plan of attacking the North instead of the Westerlands. It speaks volumes about the idiocy of the Ironborn.

EDIT:

I just saw PatrickStormborn's post. And yes, Maggy the contrived plot device prophecy takes the cake, no doubt.

[Scipio Africanus]

Jon becoming LC is somewhat contrived... that there was no logical 2nd, 3rd, 4th in command to step up seemed forced to me.

As several posters already explained to mr. Bolton's leech and cruela, there were none. There was no one left who was and capable and acceptable by a majority.

It's called a dark horse candidate, and history is littered with those, really it isn't surprising. The only thing you could say is that Martin was too vigorous in killing off senior rangers.

[Slayerblade]

Tyrion meeting penny half way across the world was contrived as fuck.

[Veltigar]

"Hi Bob howya been? Oh yeah I brought Jon along you remember him? What you mean you think it's inappropriate to parade my bastard in front of Cercei? Oh don't be such a square. I'll tell you a little secret, he isn't actually my bastard. Lyanna, you remember her? Ok alright stop your yelling, let me finish. Lyanna was actually pregnant when I found her at the ToJ. Yeah I know quite a shocker huh? Sorry bout that. Who the a-hole father was? Now this is kind of funny. Oh you already guessed it, the dragon who "raped" Lyanna couple hundred times. Yeah about that it wasn't actually rape according to Lyanna. Funny huh? Hey Bob, where are you going with that warhammer? Bob...calm down Bob. Bob I'm not kidding relax. Bob...put down the hammer Bob..."

Jon knew he'd never inherit anything, so he sought to gain reknown somehow. They'd been filling his head for years with the Ranger's so called heroic exploits, so he figured, like uncle Ben Stark did, that there was some glory to be found there.

Cat made it immediately known that Jon wasn't welcome while Eddard was gone, and Eddard couldn't take Jon along to KL. At the Wall, Jon's identity would be less of an issue, and since he'd have to take his vows, couldn't claim anything anyway. In other words, in Eddard's minid Jon would be safe, especially with uncle Ben looking out for him.

2 things:

1) Lol about taking him to KL

2) why not send Jon to Essos? The wandering wolf did that many years ago so why not encourage Jon to fend for his own in the east, he would be out of sight of Robert their too! Or why not send him to White Harbor or some other place to live and fight? Offcourse I do get the Starks preoccupation with the Wall but still it seems like a rather strange decision of not letting Jon experience the world outside of Winterfell and the wall