What in ASOIAF did you feel was CONTRIVED?

[Veltigar]

It all comes down to Daario

Oh, and their is the masterassasin Jaqen H'ghar who finds himself locked in a cage...

[Foxhound]

Had Mallister or Pyke had half a brain, they'd try to verify the story, which would've undid Sam's efforts. However, let's pretend that this oh-so-convenient voting situation was unresolvable. Under such a situation, the logical solution would be to pick an elderly seat warmer who can sit the chair for a couple of years until everyone tries again. Picking Jon essentially means that they're stuck with this choice for half a century - a young compromise candidate makes no sense.

The "logical" solution is to put a seat warmer in charge of the Watch for a few years while it's in the middle of its greatest crisis in centuries?

[RedBean]

I thought the Red Wedding was very contrived when I read it. Not because I'm a huge Robb fan and am in denial or something (I'm not either of those things); I'd already been spoiled for his death and had been expecting it, but I thought the way it happened was kind of unrealistic. Granted, Tywin and Sybel were pulling strings in the background, but I'm surprised that everything went so smoothly.

Also, I agree that the Jon/Ygritte relationship was contrived. It reminded me of in Harry Potter, where JKR wanted the Harry/Cho, Hermione/Krum, and Ron/Lavender relationships just because she didn't want her main characters to be relationship virgins when they finally got together with their "true" pairing. I wasn't even that sad when Ygritte died, because it was going to happen. Fun as she was, she was really only there to make sure Jon stopped being a virgin.

[The Great Walrus]

The Lannisters remaning in power for so long. Basically the entire family had plot armor.

[RedBean]

The Lannisters remaning in power for so long. Basically the entire family had plot armor.

Oh, this too! I can't believe that almost everything went bad for the Starks, when the Lannisters had far more chances to fuck up and they still managed to hang on to power.

[The Great Walrus]

Oh, this too! I can't believe that almost everything went bad for the Starks, when the Lannisters had far more chances to fuck up and they still managed to hang on to power.

Exactly! If the Tyrells didn't come save their asses, they'd be dead. If the Vale joined Robb, they'd be dead. If Stannis and Robb worked together, they'd be dead etc.

[Starkley]

The way Pate the pig boy stole the key from the old, forgetful(perhaps dementia) archmaester. You would think a key that important would be harder to get at.

The whole Dany and the purchase of the unsullied. Why would they be taught NOT to ever attack their original masters? That's just dumb.

The fact that Sam spent most of their money in Bravos on a room without looking for a better price somewhere else - heck, I might as well add the fact that Jon sent a flaky Dareon with Sam - how is singing going to get more recruits for the NW?

[Starkley]

Went back and read some posts - sorry for repeating some of the things already stated but that just shows we all have great minds.

Having said that, I'm surprised many think that Jon and Ygritte was contrived. I thought Martin put that in to show that perhaps Jon will be willing to break his vows once he finds out about R+L=J.

[Nymeria_Snow]

I felt Lady Stoneheart was contrived, maybe created out of guilt because Lady Catelyn didn't deserve the end she originally had.

I'm guessing that's unlikely as (sorry I can't reference right now- on my phone) i'm fairly sure in the books before the RW there are hints along the lines of turning cat's heart to stone. Sorry I can't give direct quotes but someone's mentioned it on a thread too.

For me, maybe the reappearance of penny, with her being the exact same dwarf from the wedding- felt like a stretch to me.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Had Mallister or Pyke had half a brain, they'd try to verify the story, which would've undid Sam's efforts. However, let's pretend that this oh-so-convenient voting situation was unresolvable. Under such a situation, the logical solution would be to pick an elderly seat warmer who can sit the chair for a couple of years until everyone tries again. Picking Jon essentially means that they're stuck with this choice for half a century - a young compromise candidate makes no sense.

This also ignores Jon's politically toxic status. Picking him was tantamount to giving Tywin Lannister the fingers: not a wise move if the Watch wants help from King's Landing. Nor has Jon been on the Wall for any significant length of time - he's nearly as much a newbie as Slynt (why not pick Dolorous Ed? He's a noble, so can read and write, and he's served longer than either Jon or Slynt).

Finally, this situation only arose because of LC Mormont's utterly daft decision to take as many candidates with him as humanly possible. Thus creating the impression that the entire process was ridiculously contrived.

So they should try to curry favor with the same Tywin Lannister who has done absolutely nothing to support the watch, other than recommending Slynt for LC? Yeah, they should listen to outsider trying to influence the watch. Are you actually Bowen Marsh, trolling this thread?

Jeyne Westerling: yeah Robb took her maidenhood but she took his maidenhood too. It was mutual so why dickhead Robb felt obliged to break his marriage pact with the Freys to keep her honour? What about his?

The valyrian dagger: So basically Tyrion knew that LF framed him but did nothing?

How WF was sacked. Felt as a necessary plot point (for Bran to go beyond the Wall and Robb's position to be weakened).

Tyrion couldn't prove anything. He also needs LF's money skills.

WF was being guarded by a bunch of old men and children. It was invaded by 17 ironborn raiders. One of them, Theon, had an expert understanding of the castle and the way it would be defended. He also had some daddy issues to resolve and taking WF seemed a pretty natural extension of that. What was contrived about it?

Exactly! If the Tyrells didn't come save their asses, they'd be dead. If the Vale joined Robb, they'd be dead. If Stannis and Robb worked together, they'd be dead etc.

Oh, you mean the Tyrell's whose alliance was secured through a marriage into royalty? It's not like they were sitting at home an randomly said, "you know who hit the Highgarden lottery today? The Lannisters!" I do not understand these 'plot armor' arguments whatever the hell that phrase even means. To me it seems synonymous with 'plot'. So basically your saying that "well, if I wrote the book..." or "if the author wrote the plot differently, different things would have happened....

My list of most contrived:

- Mereen, Darkstar, Dragons (real animals can't breath fire), magic, the length of the seasons seems screwed up, obviously martin never checked the timeline or he'd know that this last summer has been about 10 years, and some of his winter's have lasted for a few years.... seriously does he even have an editor?

-Also, lack of quarries. We have all these stone buildings but where the fuck are they coming from? Magic? Also contrived.

-Tywin Lannister not having a moustache.

- Also all the undead - as far as I know there haven't been real cases of the undead that have been scientifcally verified.

[The Great Walrus]

So they should try to curry favor with the same Tywin Lannister who has done absolutely nothing to support the watch, other than recommending Slynt for LC? Yeah, they should listen to outsider trying to influence the watch. Are you actually Bowen Marsh, trolling this thread?

Tyrion couldn't prove anything. He also needs LF's money skills.

WF was being guarded by a bunch of old men and children. It was invaded by 17 ironborn raiders. One of them, Theon, had an expert understanding of the castle and the way it would be defended. He also had some daddy issues to resolve and taking WF seemed a pretty natural extension of that. What was contrived about it?

Oh, you mean the Tyrell's whose alliance was secured through a marriage into royalty? It's not like they were sitting at home an randomly said, "you know who hit the Highgarden lottery today? The Lannisters!" I do not understand these 'plot armor' arguments whatever the hell that phrase even means. To me it seems synonymous with 'plot'. So basically your saying that "well, if I wrote the book..." or "if the author wrote the plot differently, different things would have happened....

Well, that was only one reason the Lannisters survived. Like i said earlier, if the Vale joined, they would've been screwed. If Robb and Stannis joined forces, they would've been screwed etc.

[Summer is Ending]

My list of most contrived:

- Mereen, Darkstar, Dragons (real animals can't breath fire), magic, the length of the seasons seems screwed up, obviously martin never checked the timeline or he'd know that this last summer has been about 10 years, and some of his winter's have lasted for a few years.... seriously does he even have an editor?

-Also, lack of quarries. We have all these stone buildings but where the fuck are they coming from? Magic? Also contrived.

-Tywin Lannister not having a moustache.

- Also all the undead - as far as I know there haven't been real cases of the undead that have been scientifcally verified.

Jon Snow winced. Halder had been born in a quarry and apprenticed as a stonemason.

Get your point though, there's not much. Considering the impact salt made on cities being born and trade routes formed by salt trade for all the mention of salt in the books there's a definite shortage of lords making a fortune supplying salt as well.

[Lion of Judah]

I'm guessing that's unlikely as (sorry I can't reference right now- on my phone) i'm fairly sure in the books before the RW there are hints along the lines of turning cat's heart to stone. Sorry I can't give direct quotes but someone's mentioned it on a thread too.

For me, maybe the reappearance of penny, with her being the exact same dwarf from the wedding- felt like a stretch to me.

Are you talking about The Ghost of High Heart's prophecy?

[tws1978]

Dany tricking the slavers to get the Unsulied - I hope the show will change that because as funny as her dealing with the slavemaster was it was stupid these supposedly dreadfull and gready people still kept their end of the bargain and really sold all their Unsulied while never once thinking how easy it would be just kill Dany and her small group and take the dragons without paying anything. It´s not like Dany has some huge backing anywhere in the world who would protest if she is attacked.

Aria´s storyline - I love the girl but she alredy had so many Deux Ex Machina characters appearing out nowhere and saving her it verges on a fairytale. I mean, she even got her three wishes in exchanges for a good deed. And GRRM tries so hard to keep her likeable. Even when she is trained to be a merciless killer her first victim is a freaking shady insurance agent. I mean, who will be next? Evil lawyer and croony politician?

The smoke monster - even if GRRM always planned it that way it feels like such a last minute out to get rid of a character who was made too powerful and too decisive too soon. This kind of a powerfull magic needs to be carefully introduced so the readers already knows what the basic rules of the magic are, not made this huge WTF moment at the end of chapter which is hardly ever mentioned again.

The Iron Bank - IMO just a half assed idea how to make Braavos more connected to the main story. How the Iron Bank works and deals is just a matter of what outcome GRRM needs for the story and it makes zero sense. KL owns them money so instead of dealing with the megarich Lannisters (and possibly getting rid of Cersei) they send an ambassador to the Wall who promises an entire fortune to Jon just to get the direction to poor and lost Stannis? And then Stannis gets another huge aid in exchange for a promise he will pay back the KL´s debt if he somewhat someway happens to win the IT at the end? Good work, Ambassador, I´m sure your boss will be happy.

A​egon and his campaign - there is a certain girl who already spend 5000+ pages readying for her way to Westeros, constantly facing one obstacle after another. And then there is this guy, who appears out of nowhere, decides to attack the Westeros in one chapter and the next he is already collecting his first victories. I mean, who needs Quaith, all the HOTU prophecies and the Dothraki screamers when all it takes to get back is hire a bunch of selswords companies with promisses of plunder, board the ships and cross the ocean with no trouble at all. Even if it most likely means Aegon is marked for death it still feels kind of cheap.

[Larry of the Lawn]

The smoke monster - even if GRRM always planned it that way it feels like such a last minute out to get rid of a character who was made too powerful and too decisive too soon. This kind of a powerfull magic needs to be carefully introduced so the readers already knows what the basic rules of the magic are, not made this huge WTF moment at the end of chapter which is hardly ever mentioned again.

What are you referring to? I honestly have no idea what the smoke monster is, and I'm a huge LOST fan. ??/

[PatrickStormborn]

Oh, another one: Penny befriending Tyrion. He's a self-confessed murderer, she heard him confess his desire to "rape and kill" his sister, she thinks he's a kingslayer, and as far as she's aware he's partly to blame for the deaths of her brother and friend.

So they should try to curry favor with the same Tywin Lannister who has done absolutely nothing to support the watch, other than recommending Slynt for LC? Yeah, they should listen to outsider trying to influence the watch. Are you actually Bowen Marsh, trolling this thread?

Tywin had, at this point, beaten all the other claimants for the throne. Co-operating with him was the best chance the NW had of surviving.

Tyrion couldn't prove anything. He also needs LF's money skills.

He didn't need to prove anything - he should have removed Littlefinger as soon as possible, and the fact that he didn't makes absolutely no sense. It clearly wasn't about his "money skills" either, as Tyrion still didn't say anything even when he was sent to the Vale.

[Nymeria_Snow]

Are you talking about The Ghost of High Heart's prophecy?

Maybe- sorry for being so vague, it's just I definitely remember it being foreshadowed somewhere.

[Lion of Judah]

Maybe- sorry for being so vague, it's just I definitely remember it being foreshadowed somewhere.

No don't worry, you're actually right it was foreshadowed.

[Siralily]

I thought Penny, the other dwarf was contrived. She didn't really have much of a purpose, other than to make Tyrion feel better about also being a dwarf? I don't know, she was annoying.

[tws1978]

What are you referring to? I honestly have no idea what the smoke monster is, and I'm a huge LOST fan. ??/

Oh, sorry. I meant shadow baby.