Moments of Foreshadowing 3

[FittleLinger]

Not all, only the men. :ph34r:

All men must die, Faceless men, all the dudes Arya spotted on their meeting - is she the first / only faceless woman? Does that mean something? Worth discussing but not on this thread I guess.

[devilrob6]

Sorry if this was already posted in one of the many posts about foreshadowing. I found this one when rereading ACOK. Melissandre already saw the defeat at Balckwater in her flames when she was still at Dragonstone. Stannis mentions it when discussing about Courtnay Penrose with Davos. He thinks that this is what would have happened if he hadn't killed Renly. But it will still happen with Ser Garlan posing as Renly, wearing his armor.

"Melisandre saw another day in her flames as well. A morrow where Renly rode out of the south in his green armor to smash my host beneath the walls of King's Landing. Had i met my brother there, it might have been me who died in place of him" - Stannis

[The Snowman]

Tyrion (A Clash of Kings page 60)

Varys: Have you seen the comet?

“I’m short not blind,” Tyrion said. Out on the kingsroad, it had seemed to cover half the sky, outshining the crescent moon.

In the streets they call the Red Messenger,” Varys said. They say it comes it comes as a herald before a king, to warn of fire and blood to follow.

Mayhaps George was throwing it out there that dragons (literal and metaphoric) are coming for the crown. An obvious hint towards Daenerys but perhaps more about the arrival of Aegon.

Also to warn of fire and blood to follow could mean The Dance of Dragons 2.0.

What do you think?

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Tyrion (A Clash of Kings page 60)

Varys: Have you seen the comet?

“I’m short not blind,” Tyrion said. Out on the kingsroad, it had seemed to cover half the sky, outshining the crescent moon.

In the streets they call the Red Messenger,” Varys said. They say it comes it comes as a herald before a king, to warn of fire and blood to follow.

Mayhaps George was throwing it out there that dragons (literal and metaphoric) are coming for the crown. An obvious hint towards Daenerys but perhaps more about the arrival of Aegon.

Also to warn of fire and blood to follow could mean The Dance of Dragons 2.0.

What do you think?

Good catch! By a Clash of Kings the dragons had hatched and Varys was gearing up the Aegon plot, so perhaps he was speaking of the Targaryen Renaissance in general.

[The Snowman]

Good catch! By a Clash of Kings the dragons had hatched and Varys was gearing up the Aegon plot, so perhaps he was speaking of the Targaryen Renaissance in general.

Well it comes straight after the Sansa POV where Joffrey tells Sansa that The Beggar King (Viserys) is dead. So essentially it was right on top of the reader getting that news

[chrisdaw]

The world was grey darkness, smelling of pine and moss and cold. Pale mists rose from the black earth as the riders threaded their way through the scatter of stones and scraggly trees, down toward the welcoming fires strewn like jewels across the floor of the river valley below.

Not really foreshadowing, just a throw back to Rhaegar's death. Perhaps more telling is the placement, it's the first sentence of the first Jon chapter of ASOS.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

--most notably when Maggy makes the prophecy.

Cersei has fought her entire life to delay these prophecies. She could kill Magaery, but she'll make herself more enemies and eventually someone younger and more beautiful will take Magaery's place.

Prophecy is like a fortune cookie. There's truth in it because it's the nature of the character that decides their fate.

Now let's look at her vaqualar. Classic love hate relationship. She loves Jaime but hates Tyrion for killing her mother. Jaime and Cersei love eachother but they are forced to grow apart. Tyrion has always been the monster in Cersei's eyes and a brother in Jaime's. Depending on how long it takes for Cersei to lose everything she holds dear will determine which brother kills her.

Oh and let's not forget that the "little birds" have heard her talking about the prophecy to Quburn, so that definitely works against her advantage. Varys knows how she thinks now.

All men must die, Faceless men, all the dudes Arya spotted on their meeting - is she the first / only faceless woman? Does that mean something? Worth discussing but not on this thread I guess.

According to the kindly man there order is hundreds of years old many men have served our order but few women. It is because women are meant to bring life into the world. Birthing children is the instrument of life. FM are the instrument of death. A person cannot be the instrument of both.

[Patrek Stark]

Just noticed this in my re-read of AGOT

AGOT - Pg 359 - "We learned that to our sorrow, Ser Donnel," Catelyn said.Sometimes she felt s though her heart had turned to stone... "

Obvious it can be related to her turning into "Lady Stoneheart"

[Eir]

Not really foreshadowing, just a throw back to Rhaegar's death. Perhaps more telling is the placement, it's the first sentence of the first Jon chapter of ASOS.

Great find! I can't put my finger on it, but there may be something else in these words, something that recalls the CotF perhaps. "The world was grey darkness, smelling of pine and moss and cold"...could also be describing Bran's cave, where many of the Children are known to be (and grey is a Stark colour). The mention of "scraggly trees" reminds me of the sentinel trees dotting the North. There have been many mentions of "sentinel trees" in ASOIAF, fitting because a sentinel is a type of tree in the North, but the word "sentinel" also means "one that keeps guard; a sentry." "Riders threaded their way through the scatter of stones and scraggly trees, down toward the welcoming fires"--could this statement possibly foreshadow a battle between Northern forces (CotF imagery, mentions of sentries, etc) and Targaryen loyalists ("welcoming fires" mentioned in tandem with the image of Rhaegar's rubies in the Trident, as Chrisdaw points out) or other fire-oriented forces (R'hllor, Asshai, etc)? Or could its placement in Jon's chapter indicate something quite different, that Jon, who some have postulated will serve as a compromise candidate/King in some capacity between the North and South/East, will indeed do so, embrace the non-Stark side of his heritage?

[Fire Eater]

All the skulls were grinning, even Bittersteel's on the tall pike in the center. What does he have to grin about? He died defeated and alone, a broken man in an alien land.

The reason for Bittersteel's grin could be because Connington and the GC are going to fight to put a Blackfyre on the Iron Throne.

This could also be foreshadowing for Connington himself, dying defeated, broken from Aegon's death and alone in a land that has changed since he had last been there almost twenty years ago.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

"Don't call me Lord Snow"

"Would you rather be called the Imp? Let them see that their words can cut you and you'll never be free of mockery. If they want to give you a name, take it, and make it your own. Then they can't hurt you with it anymore."

[Fire Eater]

"Don't call me Lord Snow"

"Would you rather be called the Imp? Let them see that their words can cut you and you'll never be free of mockery. If they want to give you a name, take it, and make it your own. Then they can't hurt you with it anymore."

Good foreshadowing for when R+L=J is revealed.

"And this Myrish priest who runs with him? It is said he spreads his false faith everywhere."

"Kill him, kiss him, or pray with him, as you please."

"I have no wish to kiss the man, my lord."

"No doubt he'd say the same of you."

This could foreshadow Thoros giving the kiss of death to Ser Bonifer Hasty, and then Bonifer becomes a replacement for Beric given his reputation.

[chrisdaw]

Good foreshadowing for when R+L=J is revealed.

Or if Jon is revived Coldhands style.

"And this Myrish priest who runs with him? It is said he spreads his false faith everywhere."

"Kill him, kiss him, or pray with him, as you please."

"I have no wish to kiss the man, my lord."

"No doubt he'd say the same of you."

This could foreshadow Thoros giving the kiss of death to Ser Bonifer Hasty, and then Bonifer becomes a replacement for Beric given his reputation.

I think Hasty's foreshadowing is in his history, his first love having been Rhaella and then when he lost her the faith. I expect he'll declare for Aegon when the faith does (assuming Varys manipulation) and then turn cloak for Dany when she arrives.

[Fire Eater]

@chrisdaw

I don't eve know if Jon is dead.

"After the trouble Ser Brynden took to leave us I doubt he'll come skulking back." Unless it is at the head of a band of outlaws.

Does this foreshadow the Blackfish retaking Riverrun with the BwB?

[Newstar]

In the "probably nothing, but set my Spidey sense a-tingling" category, from one of Sansa's AFFC POVs:

The Freys had broken all the laws of hospitality when they'd murdered her lady mother and her brother at the Twins, but she could not believe that a lord as noble as Yohn Royce would ever stoop to do the same.

Now obviously the Eyrie dinner in question went off without incident, but something about the idea that Sansa can't believe that somebody as noble as X would ever do something as awful as Y...When has Sansa not been disabused of her notions about others' nobility or goodness?

(From a foreshadowing perspective, I get antsy whenever some character states with certainty that they will never do something, or that someone else will never do something. It's not a universal rule--when it's said that Bran will never walk again, I believe it--but words like "ever," "never," etc. etc. set my Spidey sense a-tingling.)

[Fire Eater]

Jaime gets a golden hand to replace the one he lost. The Hand of the King often wears golden badge or chain in the form of hands. Could Jaime's golden hand foreshadow him finally taking the position of Hand of the King like Cersei wanted, possibly just to keep things running smoothly and keep Cersei in cheque?

[Newstar]

Jaime gets a golden hand to replace the one he lost. The Hand of the King often wears golden badge or chain in the form of hands. Could Jaime's golden hand foreshadow him finally taking the position of Hand of the King like Cersei wanted, possibly just to keep things running smoothly and keep Cersei in cheque?

I always thought this was foreshadowing of Jaime choking the life out of Cersei using his golden hand, just as Tyrion choked the life out of Shae with a chain made of linked golden hands. A common theory, I know, but it fits. I'm pretty sure Jaime is the valonqar, even if I have trouble seeing how he's going to survive his upcoming encounter with Stoneheart.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Jaime gets a golden hand to replace the one he lost. The Hand of the King often wears golden badge or chain in the form of hands. Could Jaime's golden hand foreshadow him finally taking the position of Hand of the King like Cersei wanted, possibly just to keep things running smoothly and keep Cersei in cheque?

Jaime were to become hand then it would move him one step closer to being the valonquar, imo. He'd be wearing the chain of golden hands, and if he were to wrap that around Cersei's neck and strangle her the way Tyrion strangled Shae, then the one-handed Jaime would fit the prophecy that says he will wrap his hands around her neck.

ETA:

"After the trouble Ser Brynden took to leave us I doubt he'll come skulking back." Unless it is at the head of a band of outlaws.

Does this foreshadow the Blackfish retaking Riverrun with the BwB.

Oh, good one! I've always thought the Blackfish would end up with the BwB, and this is confirmation.

@ Newstar -- get out of my head! agggggh!

[chrisdaw]

On Jaime becoming Hand and strangling someone with a necklace there's a bit of soft foreshadowing.

"No more than I want Joy to marry the son of some scheming turncloak bitch. She deserves better." Jaime would happily have strangled the woman with her seashell necklace.

It's not said explicitly but you can tell during that whole sequence Jaime is seeing Cersei in Lady Sybelle. For instance it ends with;

Jaime had to wonder how much Lord Gawen knew about his wife's scheming. How much do we men ever know?

And this I believe is the most telling line regarding Jaime's future.

Snow in the riverlands. If it was snowing here, it could well be snowing on Lannisport as well, and on King's Landing. Winter is marching south, and half our granaries are empty. Any crops still in the fields were doomed. There would be no more plantings, no more hopes of one last harvest. He found himself wondering what his father would do to feed the realm, before he remembered that Tywin Lannister was dead.

[Uncat]

Yepp, though I think, the context is important. Jamies has a weird dream about Cersei and his dead father. Then he wakes and stands up. He steps into something wet and cold and his first thought is, that it is blood. Then he realises, that it had started to snow and starts to realize the consequenses (the passage you quoted)

There is some kind of huge foreshadowing going on in this whole passage, but I never could figure out, what it is (can't quote it, though, 'cause I havn't got the book with me)