Tall-Talker Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Melisandre: She saw the eyeless faces again, staring out at her from sockets weeping blood. Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depths. Shadows in the shape of skulls, skulls that turned to mist, bodies locked together in lust, writhing and rolling and clawing. Through curtains of fire great winged shadows wheeled against a hard blue sky.Imo, the part in bold letters describes the Old Gods/Br destroying Pyke (I think the rest is a mixture of other visions).But why? What will the Iron Born do that will bring down such wrath?I can think of three reasons:1. The Others have invaded the Iron Isles. I think this is the least likely because I don’t think water would kill them.2. The Damphair and the Drowned God religion. “What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger.” Is there something secret or dark in the Iron Born religion we don’t yet know about? Will the Damphair try to summon his “drowned god” and not get what he was expecting?3. Or perhaps Euron and company have gotten somewhere with the dragon taming thing or they are attempting something too dangerous with black magic.My money is on option three but I can also see option two occur.Now I wish people had picked the Damphair sample chapter from TWoW no one chose in those GRRM readings just to see if there was something telling in there.Assuming it is Pyke that will be destroyed, I’d like to get your thoughts on why you think BR/Bran/CotF would want to conjure up such power in order to destroy an entire body of land, or at least the castle of House Greyjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I assume it's the Damphair rousing the believers as he promised to do. His priests and warriors and commoners will be the dark tide that sweeps over Pyke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I'm guessing it's a clash of the Drowned God and the old god religions. Perhaps the motive hasn't even developed yet, in which case it's difficult to guess what it might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narea Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Personally, I always thought that that part was connected to the Eastwatch-by-the-Sea (and those dead things in water Cotter Pyke mentions), but if it does mean the Pyke, then there are sure to be a lot of drowned bodies/corpses around to cause some serious trouble. Would be fun to see if that sea dragon thingy rose to harass the Ironborn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirPeter Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 What makes you think the towers by the sea are Pyke ? It could be Oldtown as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Personally, I always thought that that part was connected to the Eastwatch-by-the-Sea (and those dead things in water Cotter Pyke mentions), but if it does mean the Pyke, then there are sure to be a lot of drowned bodies/corpses around to cause some serious trouble. Would be fun to see if that sea dragon thingy rose to harass the Ironborn...Mel thinks it's Eastwatch-by-the-Sea and she's almost always wrong in how she interprets her stuff. Eastwatch is also, crucially, a lone tower, isn't it? Same with Oldtown, another possibility I've seen — the Hightower is a lone tower. The vision is explicitly towers, plural.What makes you think the towers by the sea are Pyke ? It could be Oldtown as well.The Hightower is one tower.And it could be Pyke or Harlaw, which has ten towers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirPeter Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 You cold also argue, towers meaning the members of the family Hightower. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nausicaä Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Mel thinks it's Eastwatch-by-the-Sea and she's almost always wrong in how she interprets her stuff. Eastwatch is also, crucially, a lone tower, isn't it? Same with Oldtown, another possibility I've seen — the Hightower is a lone tower. The vision is explicitly towers, plural.Eastwatch-by-the-Sea is not like Pyke and has a more traditional structure, but IIRC, if the official art by Ted Nasmith is to be believed, there's more than one tower. Plus, Mel was there and she thinks it could be Eastwatch, so I think the tower/towers thing is not that crucial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Wun Wun Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 This is from Theon's ACOK chapter where he meets "Esgred" and takes her to Pyke:"Esgred is yours, sweet prince. Take me to your castle. Let me see your proud towers rising from the sea.”I'd like to believe GRRM wouldn't give us a prophecy related to some towers we haven't seen before, that would kind of ruin the point of foreshadowing imo.When we last saw Damphair this is what he had to say regarding his plans to overthrow Euron:“The ironborn shall be waves,” the Damphair said. “Not the great and lordly, but the simple folk, tillers of the soil and fishers of the sea. The captains and the kings raised Euron up, but the common folk shall tear him down.Drawing his army from the common folk of the iron islands ties into the imagery of the wave rising from the depths. Plus there is the whole "dark tide" thing and we know Euron murdered the lord of Blacktyde, which many people speculate is the island where Damphair is hiding out at the moment.So I think the prophecy does refer to Pyke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 There are shitloads of Ironmen approaching Mereen which also has many towers. I'll just throw that out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 There are shitloads of Ironmen approaching Mereen which also has many towers. I'll just throw that out there.Yo ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Eastwatch-by-the-Sea is not like Pyke and has a more traditional structure, but IIRC, if the official art by Ted Nasmith is to be believed, there's more than one tower. Plus, Mel was there and she thinks it could be Eastwatch, so I think the tower/towers thing is not that crucial.But again, Melisandre is nearly always incorrect when it comes to interpreting what she sees. What she SEES is accurate, she just misreads it. Like Alys Karstark not being Arya, and Garlan Tyrell not being Renly. So the fact that she thinks it's Eastwatch should be Exhibit A that it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGriffonReborn Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 There are shitloads of Ironmen approaching Mereen which also has many towers. I'll just throw that out there.Meereen has pyramids not towers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narea Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 But again, Melisandre is nearly always incorrect when it comes to interpreting what she sees. What she SEES is accurate, she just misreads it. Like Alys Karstark not being Arya, and Garlan Tyrell not being Renly. So the fact that she thinks it's Eastwatch should be Exhibit A that it isn't.Not really, because she was there and as such knows how it looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 Not really, because she was there and as such knows how it looks.She also saw Renly yet still misinterpreted her vision. Point stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franko99 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I guess the question is if the sark tide is a literal dark tide, or just a metaphor for the Ironborns, If I'm not wrong it has been used before to refer them.And yes, not only Mel, most of the times someone try to interpret a prophecy, is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurkhal Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I assume it's the Damphair rousing the believers as he promised to do. His priests and warriors and commoners will be the dark tide that sweeps over Pyke.I like the sound of that. Every since I got into 40k I've had a soft spot for hordes of screaming fanatics. If they are both screaming fanantics as well as Ironborn, that's to good to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franko99 Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 She also saw Renly yet still misinterpreted her vision. Point stands.She saw someone wearing Renly's armor, how could she possible knew it wasn't Renly. Hell, half of Stannis army "saw" Renly's ghost (and they trully believe it was him).I'm not saying you're wrong, I actually agree with you that Mel is wrong about Eastwatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagganaro Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 A good general rule is that whatever Mel thinks she sees, that pretty much eliminates it from contention of being the actual thing she's seeing. So I'd never really trust her more specific descriptions/things that require a little bit of interpretation on her part because she rarely, if ever, seems to be right. For my part, I'm also going with Pyke. We've been forced to sit through rather boring Damphair chapters so far for no apparent reason, and the imagery that Damphair brings up seems to perfectly match the imagery of Mel's visions. I imagine there will be some kind of major payoff with Damphair's POV (and I believe GRRM has all but confirmed this as well) that involves a rebellion and/or a Kraken. Preferably a Giant Freaking Kraken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 She saw someone wearing Renly's armor, how could she possible knew it wasn't Renly. Hell, half of Stannis army "saw" Renly's ghost (and they trully believe it was him).I'm not saying you're wrong, I actually agree with you that Mel is wrong about EastwatchIt's not just that one incident, it's cumulative. When she tries to interpret what she sees, she's wrong. That's the point. The person said that she couldn't be wrong because she'd seen Eastwatch, and I just pointed out that hey, she saw Renly (or thought she did) and was wrong about that. That others also thought it was Renly is neither here nor there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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