R+L=J v.39

[Jon Icefyre]

I just don't believe the ToJ as being the perfect place for giving birth. And I think that might be where we disagree and can't seem to reconcile our theories. ;)

Of course it wasn't a sudden thing. But considering where the tower is located it doesn't seem to be a strategically good place for runnaways to set up a camp with a pregnant Lady. Also, we've read it discribed as a ruin.

It's located on the prince's pass (which to me, seems like a highway to dorne) and not somewhere very isolated. So my guess is the KG were trying to cross into Dorne with Lyanna, but had to stop on the way, either because they misjudged the amount of time needed to travel the distance from Kingslanding to Dorne, or because of unforseen complications due to Lyanna being pregnant. She could have given birth early, for all we know.

If they had time to plan it all out properly, I don't understand why they would have chosen to stop at the ToJ and not ridden further into Dorne.

I think it's the perfect place. Look the most impoortant thing for Rhaegar and Lyanna besides the obvious success of the childbirth was descretion. There aren't many places you can hide in the realm without being caught when your the crowned prince or the girl the crowned prince kidnapped and pretty much started a rebellion over so in that sense I'd say the TOJ is a perfect place. And btw they didn't just happened to have passed by the TOJ by accident or chose to settle there on a whim because they weary of the road. Rhaegar's the one who named the Tower of Joy and might have been the one to have it built as well. I think it was planned all along for Rhaegar and Lyanna to hide at the TOJ.

[Roza Ahai]

Some things I've been thinking about:

We know that Rhaegar did name the Tower of Joy but we don't know that it was because of the time spent there with Lyanna. We know that Rhaegar was melancholy and often spent time on his own at Summerhall. Maybe the Tower of Joy was also a refuge for him and is so named for other reasons not yet given.

We don't know that Ned found Lyanna at the ToJ. It doesn't seem to be a very good place, as far as amenities go, to hide away a pregnant woman who is going to give birth to the "third head" of the dragon. When you add the support staff necessary, it doesn't seem likely to me that the ToJ could possibly adequately house and feed that many people. I think the theory that Lyanna was at Starfall makes a lot more sense.

It does seem that the KG are guarding someone at the ToJ and I think that it may be Jon who has been moved from Starfall to a more secure location. I have said in other posts that I find it curious that we are never told explicitly that Ned entered the ToJ and found Lyanna within its walls. We are also counselled by the author himself that Ned's fever dream is not to be taken literally, so perhaps the chronology of events is not exactly as he remembers.

If Rhaegar and Lyanna stayed at Starfall that would be known in Westeros. Aerys wouldn't look for Rhaegar so long.

Arthur Dayne was Rhaegars' closest friend. The fist place for a search of Rhaegar would be Starfall, but he hasn't been found there right away.

I dont' think that Rhaegar and Lyanna lived separately from each other: Lyanna at Starfall and Rhaegar at ToJ. I believe he would stay with pregnant Lyanna.

So, Rhaegar definetely didn't take Lyanna to Starfall, rumors will be delivered to Aerys pretty soon.

ToJ is a perfect place for hiding because nobody couldn't find them for a few years. The tower should be an enough comfortable place to keep a beloved woman there.

[Belandra Waters]

If Rhaegar and Lyanna stayed at Starfall that would be known in Westeros. Aerys wouldn't look for Rhaegar so long.

Arthur Dayne was Rhaegars' closest friend. The fist place for a search of Rhaegar would be Starfall, but he hasn't been found there right away.

I dont' think that Rhaegar and Lyanna lived separately from each other: Lyanna at Starfall and Rhaegar at ToJ. I believe he would stay with pregnant Lyanna.

So, Rhaegar definetely didn't take Lyanna to Starfall, rumors will be delivered to Aerys pretty soon.

According to the WoIaF app, rumours were already circulating that Rhaegar and Lyanna were holed up at the ToJ. They probably stayed there together at first but I think the idea that Lyanna was moved to Starfall when Rhaegar left for KL has merit.

ToJ is a perfect place for hiding because nobody couldn't find them for a few years. The tower should be an enough comfortable place to keep a beloved woman there.

Hightower didn't seem to have much trouble locating Rhaegar when he was sent to find him, so I don't really think the ToJ's location was that big a secret.

[Roza Ahai]

According to the WoIaF app, rumours were already circulating that Rhaegar and Lyanna were holed up at the ToJ. They probably stayed there together at first but I think the idea that Lyanna was moved to Starfall when Rhaegar left for KL has merit.

If Lyanna gave a birth at Starfall, that wouldn't be a big secret. Many people would see her pregnant, and they will expect to hear news about a newborn. In books nobody mentioned that Lyanna was pregnant.

Hightower didn't seem to have much trouble locating Rhaegar when he was sent to find him, so I don't really think the ToJ's location was that big a secret.

No, it is mentioned that Aerys was looking for Prince and couldn't locate him a long time. It took a few months for Ned and Robert raise bannermen. We don't know how Hightower found Rhaegar. Ashara might know and say to him.

[Belandra Waters]

If Lyanna gave a birth at Starfall, that wouldn't be a big secret. Many people would see her pregnant, and they will expect to hear news about a newborn. In books nobody mentioned that Lyanna was pregnant.

Starfall is a long ways from KL. If supplies and personnel were coming and going from Starfall to ToJ, a number of people from Starfall are going to know what's happening at the ToJ anyway. Logistically, it just makes more sense for Lyanna to be moved (she would probably be in the early stages of her pregnancy) to Starfall and she would be just as safe and secure there as at the ToJ, at least as long as the Targaryens still hold the IT.

No, it is mentioned that Aerys was looking for Prince and couldn't locate him a long time. It took a few months for Ned and Robert raise bannermen. We don't know how Hightower found Rhaegar. Ashara might know and say to him.

I'm not sure how the Ned and Robert comment is relevant to this discussion but, I repeat, the app says that there were "rumours" that Rhaegar was at the ToJ. Hightower went to find him and Rhaegar returned to KL shortly after the Battle of the Bells, so it could not have taken Hightower that long to locate Rhaegar.

[Roza Ahai]

Starfall is a long ways from KL. If supplies and personnel were coming and going from Starfall to ToJ, a number of people from Starfall are going to know what's happening at the ToJ anyway. Logistically, it just makes more sense for Lyanna to be moved (she would probably be in the early stages of her pregnancy) to Starfall and she would be just as safe and secure there as at the ToJ, at least as long as the Targaryens still hold the IT.

It doesn't make sense, sorry. Why nobody knows that Lyanna was pregnant. Robert, Varys and LF did not know. Lyanna would be seen pregnant with huge belly at Starfall. Suppliers don't need to enter ToJ. Personnel brough to ToJ don't need to travel between two places.

I'm not sure how the Ned and Robert comment is relevant to this discussion but, I repeat, the app says that there were "rumours" that Rhaegar was at the ToJ. Hightower went to find him and Rhaegar returned to KL shortly after the Battle of the Bells, so it could not have taken Hightower that long to locate Rhaegar.

Could you please give a quote from app. Rumors might be spread after Rhaegars death that he was at ToJ.

[corbon]

Starfall is a long ways from KL. If supplies and personnel were coming and going from Starfall to ToJ, a number of people from Starfall are going to know what's happening at the ToJ anyway. Logistically, it just makes more sense for Lyanna to be moved (she would probably be in the early stages of her pregnancy) to Starfall and she would be just as safe and secure there as at the ToJ, at least as long as the Targaryens still hold the IT.

This is simply wrong.

As noted the single most important thing for Lyanna and Rhaegar is discretion and secrecy. They have these at ToJ at very low risk. They don't have those things at Starfall.

You don't need a steady stream of people travelling between Starfall and ToJ for support, and the people you do need, are unremarkable. One trip, 2 or three people and a cart or wagon, and once or twice a messenger going back and forth maybe, thats all you need.

Yes, support from Starfall means a small number of people at Starfall will know something is going on at ToJ and an even smaller number (like 1 or 2) might know what. Thats a keepable secret.

Lyanna and/or Rhaegar being at Starfall is simply not a keepable secret. Everyone will know, and someone will risk the displeasure of the Daynes in return for rewards from Aerys or the Rebels.

Remember, Aerys isn't going to be happy with Rhaegar or Lyanna (Elia was his choice for Rhaegar's wife, and he already distrusts Rhaegar), so loyalties being tested are very personal here. Its simply not sustainable to have either of them at Starfall.

I'm also a little curious as to what leads you to think that Ned finding Lyanna is not necessarily at ToJ. It seemed fairly clear to me that it was.

I'm not sure how the Ned and Robert comment is

relevant to this discussion but, I repeat, the app says that there were "rumours" that Rhaegar was at the ToJ. Hightower went to find him and Rhaegar returned to KL shortly after the Battle of the Bells, so it could not have taken Hightower that long to locate Rhaegar.

I'd like to know where that came from (not just 'the app', which merely puts together all the things we know, not new stuff generally - and is far from infallible). And precisely when those rumours were, and who propogated them?

[Old-Growth]

Naaah! Aerys woulda flipped!

Burgers or pancakes?

[Ribupr]

Robb: "The next time I see you, you'll be all in black."

Jon: "It was always my color."

If that isn't evidence Jon is a Targaryen, I don't know what is lol

[Greymoon]

Why do people assume that Rhaegar was hidding away like a coward? With Lyanna? This doesn't make sense to me. I can't imagine the two love birds having their honeymoon at the ToJ whilst there's a bloody war going on and Lyanna's brother and father have already been murdered.

Furthermore, I don't believe Lyanna was hidden away the whole time. Ser Grand-father saw her, Connington as well. Granted,

we don't know when they saw her and it could have been at the tournament... but I think it just as likely they saw her after the 'kidnapping'... Honestly, would Lyanna consent to being locked up in a tower for almost a year? And then what? What would they have done afterwards? In order to protect the babe, particularly considering how high child mortality would be in westeros, it seems more reasonable to seek asylum in the neighboring kingdom and surround yourself with strong allies who'll fight for you. The lone Wolf dies, said Ned Stark. Isolation with a pregnant woman seems stupid, and would make sense only as a last resort, especially considering the logistics of bringing foods and such up to the tower.

The most logical solution is for Rhaegar to have decided Lyanna needs to be send away from Westeros for her own protection. I'd even speculate...it’s entirely possible, Rhaegar meant to send Lyanna to Doran Martell, as a token of good faith, since he'd basically be entrusting Doran with the safety of his most 'precious' and would insure also, that Elia was being cared for.

We know the Dornish are open minded and liberal when it comes to paramours etc... and Doran never seems angry that his sister was 'scorned', only that she was killed. And even if he did resent Rhaegar and Lyanna, he's not the type of man to close his door to a pregnant refugee... So... If I were Rhaegar, Doran would be a safe bet, regardless of their quarell, if quarell there was.

Why do they need that much discretion when the realm is already at war because of their indiscretion? Agreed, they should not parade it in front of the court, but that doesn’t mean they’ve been hiding away. I think it just as likely, that they moved to different places, at different times. Or that Lyanna stayed with Rhaegar in Kingslanding, and was later send away.

As for no one finding out about Lyanna's pregnancy, even if she wasn't hidden away, well... it's entirely possible to conceal a pregnancy up to the fifth month. It would depend on the morphology of the woman, but skinny girls with a skinny babe in the belly, don't show much.

[Greymoon]

I think it's the perfect place. Look the most impoortant thing for Rhaegar and Lyanna besides the obvious success of the childbirth was descretion. There aren't many places you can hide in the realm without being caught when your the crowned prince or the girl the crowned prince kidnapped and pretty much started a rebellion over so in that sense I'd say the TOJ is a perfect place. And btw they didn't just happened to have passed by the TOJ by accident or chose to settle there on a whim because they weary of the road. Rhaegar's the one who named the Tower of Joy and might have been the one to have it built as well. I think it was planned all along for Rhaegar and Lyanna to hide at the TOJ.

The Tower of Joy is one of three towers located on the Prince's pass. I'm assuming here, that Kingsgrave and Skyreach are towers as well.

This seems to indicate, to me, that the ToJ is a former guardtower. The Prince's pass could be out of use, by the time of Robert's rebellion, but it looks like a border/road to cross into Dorne. Granted it's not the Kingsroad, and the Boneway might be more travelled, but I certainly don't think Rhaegar had the tower build. Not only because he'd have to have started building it at quite an early age, before even knowing about Lyanna, but also, because Ned thinks of it as a ruin. Rhaegar could have renamed it of course, and it might be one of his favorite spots, like summerhall, because it overlooks the Dornish mountains. But I still think it was an abandonned tower, with little facilities, and even quite small. It looks like a place where the KG would have stopped to make a last desperate stand if their ennemies were close by, because it offered a bit more shetler and would be a good spot to spy on any advancing troups.

[Bushido]

Aerys would be freaked out. He rejected Tywin to marry Rhaegar and Cercei, and here comes Rhaegar with Lyanna.

He refused Tywin because he felt Lannisters are his servants; We know that North,Starks are pretty reclusive up to that point,and keep to themsleves. We can discuss what Lord Rickard's ambitions could have brought to Starks,but there is no room for alliances in the time of peace and this could simply be seen as forming friendships (with all the perks of friendships among nobility)

So,would Starks (Lyanna) be scorned,an ancient,very noble family,very proud?

[Ygrain]

Why do people assume that Rhaegar was hidding away like a coward? With Lyanna? This doesn't make sense to me. I can't imagine the two love birds having their honeymoon at the ToJ whilst there's a bloody war going on and Lyanna's brother and father have already been murdered.

Furthermore, I don't believe Lyanna was hidden away the whole time. Ser Grand-father saw her, Connington as well. Granted,

we don't know when they saw her and it could have been at the tournament... but I think it just as likely they saw her after the 'kidnapping'... Honestly, would Lyanna consent to being locked up in a tower for almost a year? And then what? What would they have done afterwards? In order to protect the babe, particularly considering how high child mortality would be in westeros, it seems more reasonable to seek asylum in the neighboring kingdom and surround yourself with strong allies who'll fight for you. The lone Wolf dies, said Ned Stark. Isolation with a pregnant woman seems stupid, and would make sense only as a last resort, especially considering the logistics of bringing foods and such up to the tower.

The most logical solution is for Rhaegar to have decided Lyanna needs to be send away from Westeros for her own protection. I'd even speculate...it's entirely possible, Rhaegar meant to send Lyanna to Doran Martell, as a token of good faith, since he'd basically be entrusting Doran with the safety of his most 'precious' and would insure also, that Elia was being cared for.

We know the Dornish are open minded and liberal when it comes to paramours etc... and Doran never seems angry that his sister was 'scorned', only that she was killed. And even if he did resent Rhaegar and Lyanna, he's not the type of man to close his door to a pregnant refugee... So... If I were Rhaegar, Doran would be a safe bet, regardless of their quarell, if quarell there was.

Why do they need that much discretion when the realm is already at war because of their indiscretion? Agreed, they should not parade it in front of the court, but that doesn't mean they've been hiding away. I think it just as likely, that they moved to different places, at different times. Or that Lyanna stayed with Rhaegar in Kingslanding, and was later send away.

As for no one finding out about Lyanna's pregnancy, even if she wasn't hidden away, well... it's entirely possible to conceal a pregnancy up to the fifth month. It would depend on the morphology of the woman, but skinny girls with a skinny babe in the belly, don't show much.

And what makes you think that Rhaegar and Lyanna knew immediately what followed after they eloped? It's not like Westeros has an instant messaging service. They elope and go into hiding, so that no-one can challenge Rhaegar for a duel, Aerys cannot order him or Lyanna to go back, no-one can do a thing until things settle and the deed is grudginly accepted. So, they travel by some obscure paths to avoid detection, to an abandoned place where they won't be disturbed and spend their honeymoon (true, not much luxury there, but Lyanna is no pampered southern flower). Meanwhile, they send Dayne to Starfall to get the news - and by this time, Brandon and Rickard are already dead and the Rebellion started. The Rebellion led by Lyanna's betrothed and her brother. Do you think that Aerys would hesitate to harm Lyanna to bring these two into line if he could get his paws on her? Under these circumstances, it is absolutely vital that Lyanna remains hidden, in a place where Varys cannot possibly have any spies. Starfall, as a big castle with a port, is not an option - too many eyes, too many strangers passing by.

Oh, and BTW, it is stated clearly that when Aerys learned about the whole affair after Brandon's stupidity (note please that had Rhaegar and Lyanna went to KL, he would have known already), he got angry and wanted Rhaegar to answer for his action but no-one knew where he was - now, if Rhaegar and/or Lyanna had ever ventured to KL, there's no way Varys wouldn't have known. Barristan and Jon Con wer both at Harrenhall, so they saw Lyanna there.

[Greymoon]

And what makes you think that Rhaegar and Lyanna knew immediately what followed after they eloped? It's not like Westeros has an instant messaging service. They elope and go into hiding, so that no-one can challenge Rhaegar for a duel, Aerys cannot order him or Lyanna to go back, no-one can do a thing until things settle and the deed is grudginly accepted. So, they travel by some obscure paths to avoid detection, to an abandoned place where they won't be disturbed and spend their honeymoon (true, not much luxury there, but Lyanna is no pampered southern flower). Meanwhile, they send Dayne to Starfall to get the news - and by this time, Brandon and Rickard are already dead and the Rebellion started. The Rebellion led by Lyanna's betrothed and her brother. Do you think that Aerys would hesitate to harm Lyanna to bring these two into line if he could get his paws on her? Under these circumstances, it is absolutely vital that Lyanna remains hidden, in a place where Varys cannot possibly have any spies. Starfall, as a big castle with a port, is not an option - too many eyes, too many strangers passing by.

Oh, and BTW, it is stated clearly that when Aerys learned about the whole affair after Brandon's stupidity (note please that had Rhaegar and Lyanna went to KL, he would have known already), he got angry and wanted Rhaegar to answer for his action but no-one knew where he was - now, if Rhaegar and/or Lyanna had ever ventured to KL, there's no way Varys wouldn't have known. Barristan and Jon Con wer both at Harrenhall, so they saw Lyanna there.

Yes to all you said, though I'll point out again, the ToJ does not seem a good place to hide away in, since I believe it to be a former guardtower, located on a road to cross into dorne.

Rhaegar could have been at any other place than Kingslanding, by the time Aerys caught on. He had friends after all, and was quite possibly planning to overthrow his father.

I don't quite remember who thinks it, might be it was Barristan Selmy, but... we have someone recount how Rhaegar left Kingslanding and promised 'things would change' when he came back, which indicates the Prince had other plans besides stealing Lyanna away.

Either way, a man preparing a coup d'etat wouldn't be hiding away in a tower with his beloved, but rather try to find support amongst his close acquaintances. I believe it more likely Rhaegar and Lyanna did not spend all of their time together and actually stayed at different places. It could even be, that at some point in time, both were at Griffins roots, though we have no indication for that to be true. The point is, we don't know very much about the circumstances and the few POV characters who might know anything about it, aren’t talking.

Jon Connington and Arthur Daynes are only two likely candidates for having been aware of the entire affair and of Rhaegar's plans. Who's to say, Rhaegar didn't have more trusted friends? As for Jon not being aware of the pregnancy, he was exiled pretty early.

And neither Varys nor anyone else would know about any pregnancy if Lyanna started showing whilst already on the move.

Also, I think it a safe bet that Rhaegar and Lyanna could have predicted heavy consequences for eloping. They certainly hadn't planned on a rebellion, but they couldn't have expected everything to go smooth.

It seems entirely too innocent to elope and stay hidden, hoping for the best.

Further, Lyanna's disappearance only seems like the catalyst for a rebellion that was meant to happen. What I mean by that is, Rhaegar might have been aware of rising contempt against Aerys's rule and could have predicted trouble to be upon them soon. This would give him justification in trying to dispose of his father and legitimize his claim on the Iron Throne.

Knowing that Dany was conceived by rape, I can't imagine Rhaegar having a good relationship with his father. I expect there to have been a lot of mistrust and contempt between them, just as I expect the court and Targ bannermen to have been divided between Aerys loyalists and Rhaegar supporters. Any of these Rhaegar supporters, might have given him shelter and kept it secret.

[The guy from the Vale]

The man who remembers Rhaegar saying things would change is Jaime, and Rhaegar said so when he was back in KL to rally the troops for the Trident, not before he went on to elope with Lyanna. Arthur Dayne (and Oswell Whent) pretty clearly were in on Rhaegar's plans, seeing that they helped him durign the 'kidnapping' of Lyanna.

I also believe Rhaegar had layed his plans to set Aerys aside after the fiasco of Harrenhal - until Aerys went totally bonkers with the murder of Brandon and Rickard Stark, at least.

Alternatively, hiding with Lyanna might have been part of an elaborate plot to get rid of Aerys that ultimately backfired. As Ygrain stated, Lyanna was to be kept away from Aerys at any cost, or the madman would get even more leverage.

[Bushido]

Ygrain

Oh, and BTW, it is stated clearly that when Aerys learned about the whole affair after Brandon's stupidity (note please that had Rhaegar and Lyanna went to KL, he would have known already), he got angry and wanted Rhaegar to answer for his action but no-one knew where he was

Can you be more precise? I think Aerys sent for Rhaegar once the rebellion took shape.

[Greymoon]

Under these circumstances, it is absolutely vital that Lyanna remains hidden, in a place where Varys cannot possibly have any spies. Starfall, as a big castle with a port, is not an option - too many eyes, too many strangers passing by.

Also... Starfall came up with the topic of Willa. I never suggested Lyanna would have been sent to Starfall, only that it didn't make much sense for the KG to fetch Willa from Starfall and bring her to the ToJ. As I stated in my earlier post, I believe it more likely for the KG to have been on their way to Doran Martell to seek protection. It might seem weird to send your lover to your brother-in-law, but like I said, I don't believe Doran would have closed his door to Lyanna (as long as Robert didn't plan to march into Dorne) and it would have been a way for Rhaegar to show his trust. Rhaegar trusting Doran with the safety of Lyanna and his child, would be somewhat of an honor, and a way to reaffirm the alliance between their houses, regardless of present quarrels. It also says, Doran can trust Rhaegar to take care of Elia.

Possibly aslo, the KG might have carried a letter with them from Rhaegar to Doran.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Prince's Pass is the western approach to Dorne and very out of the way unless your destination was Sandstone or the Hellholt. It's not a direct route to Starfall or to Sunspear. To reach Starfall by land the easiest route would be the river valley south of Horn Hill. Sunspear's easiest land approach is clearly the Boneway. Either is much easier reached by sea. Arthur Dayne would have known all of this and been able to suggest the disused tower as a place Rhaegar and Lyanna could hide. We are never told what the tower was called previously, only that Rhaegar named it the Tower of Joy. That he spent some joyful months there with Lyanna seems the most reasonable explanation. Like finding the simplest route with a map, the simplest explanation presented by the evidence is most likely correct.

[Greymoon]

Prince's Pass is the western approach to Dorne and very out of the way unless your destination was Sandstone or the Hellholt. It's not a direct route to Starfall or to Sunspear. To reach Starfall by land the easiest route would be the river valley south of Horn Hill. Sunspear's easiest land approach is clearly the Boneway.

Well, yes, that's just the thing, though, isn't it? the Prince's Pass is the more discreet (though previously perhaps more common), road into Dorne. It's the less obvious choice. If you were running away from foes, you'd take a less traveled road instead of risking the Boneway. And besides, we don't actually know from which direction the KG came, since we don't know where they, or Lyanna, was before being at the ToJ.

I think I'll agree to disagree regarding Rhaegar's hiding away at the ToJ and it being perfect for it... ;)

[Budj]

Jon Con does not know. If he knew he would not be with Young Griff and / or would have told fAegon about his half brother up North they should use to rally support....

Doran does not know....do you think he would have messed with all of those botched up plans with exiled Targaryens if he knew about a Targ in Westeros? Not to mention this one being Rhaegar's son and not the "Mad King's spawn" as some of his detractors would put it. Dorne may not have the best relationship with the Starks, but it is by no means hostile. With enough careful planning Doran could have gotten in touch with Ned Stark since anyone with half a political brain in Westeros knew what a shit storm King's Landing would become when Robert inevitably passed. Not saying Ned would have agreed, but it would have been mentioned Doran tried.

I think it is a reasonable assumption that the guard towers in the Prince's pass were set up and used when Dorne was still outside of the 7 Kingdoms. Once the regions were no longer hostile the Boneway...a convenient road...was more frequently used. I agree Dayne likely knew these things being a Dornishman. I also see no issue with him (or Whent, or both) going on a secret mission to obtain supplies from Starfall. Whent specifically (if he were not wearing KG white) with a written request from Dayne would easily be able to obtain whatever they needed inconspicuously.

As far as Hightower is concerned my guess is that he was aware the whole time, but chose not to act on it until tasked with retrieving Rhaegar from Aerys as his orders trump all else according to the vow. The fact that Hightower did not bring Lyanna back to King's Landing suggests to me that while he was upholding his vow to obey the King - he also took some liberties with what the King didn't say.